Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other

Melvinpoorter

New Member
Reaction score
0
Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other topicals. There are a lot of interesting posts at hairsite. Some of these topicals seems to be a very good solution againts male pattern baldness. What do you guys think is the solution on the horizon?
 

bombscience

Senior Member
Reaction score
7
Re: Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and oth

Melvinpoorter said:
Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other topicals. There are a lot of interesting posts at hairsite. Some of these topicals seems to be a very good solution againts male pattern baldness. What do you guys think is the solution on the horizon?

Osteo: Not available, too expensive to home make
RU: Difficult to get your hands on
6-bap: This stuff is weird, and I haven't seen anything that would show how effective it is yet.
 

bombscience

Senior Member
Reaction score
7
Cassin said:
Hey bomb, why did you go for such a high amount of Biotin? I am thinking of taking 1mg.

Not that this is any scientific data but 2.5mg was used in this study:


---
An examination of the effect of biotin on alopecia and hair quality.

Floersheim GL, Dermatologie FMH, Rennweg 15,CH-4052 Basel; Switzerland.Zeitschrift fur Hautkrankheiten. Vol 67(3) (pp 246-252+255), 1992.

The effect of a daily oral dose of 2,5 mg biotin was studied in 93 patients with the symptoms hair-loss (mostly androgenetic alopecia) and reduced hair quality. The mean duration of treatment was 7,9 +/- 2,8 months.

An obvious improvement of hair-loss was reported in 64%, and a slight improvement in 9%. Hair quality was clearly improved in 70% and slightly in 12%. Brittle finger nails as an additional complaint were improved in 80%.

If alopecia, decreased hair quality and brittle finger nails occurred in combination, improvement was observed frequently collectively.

The study allows - as already shown in a previous investigation concerning brittle finger nails - to suggest biotin as an effective and well tolerated therapy in cases of alopecia and decreased hair quality.
 

Cassin

Senior Member
Reaction score
78
Thanks Bomb!

Will be buying some Biotin right after work. The reports that I had read stated that 600mcg-1mg was usefull for hair. But the study you posted is the only one thta had any success rates to back it up. The only rate I was able to find showed a reported thickness in hair in 25% of users. But in that study 1mg was used.
 

flux

Experienced Member
Reaction score
1
Re: Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and oth

Melvinpoorter said:
Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other topicals. There are a lot of interesting posts at hairsite. Some of these topicals seems to be a very good solution againts male pattern baldness. What do you guys think is the solution on the horizon?

This site is based on proven treatments. RU gets its nods but is still difficult to obtain and reliable statistics on its efficiency are not available. 6-Bap has yet to prove itself. And nobody knows a damned thing about how good osteoscreen works.

There is a forum for experimental treatments, but we just arnt those people. This community generally consists of people for whom the big three works. Other people visit, but the regulars here use the proven stuff with general success. Still, some of us (like myself) do keep an eye on other treatments, and I am watching Osteoscreen very closely. I read a post with vaguely good news made by one of the trialists (on another site). He didn't really describe its effect, but he was just 40 days into treatment. As long as he keeps talking, I think we'll know more in the coming months.
 

Lizzad

Experienced Member
Reaction score
0
This site is based on proven treatments.

Flux is spot on! I guess were pretty reserved on here, personally, i'm gonna wait 6 months to see how T-flav, 6-bap, fFuridil, RU, Ell Cranell develop, for the time being i'm gonna go spironolactone/minoxidil/nizoral and just monitor the progress of these new treatments!
 

HairlossTalk

Senior Member
Reaction score
6
Re: Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and oth

Melvinpoorter said:
Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other topicals. There are a lot of interesting posts at hairsite. Some of these topicals seems to be a very good solution againts male pattern baldness. What do you guys think is the solution on the horizon?
The other guys replied pretty accurately to this already, but I just wanted to add to it. Over the past 4 years a lot of interesting theories have come out of hairsite, but we have watched people get worked up into a frenzy over them, putting all hopes and dreams into them, and even joining bandwagons that the clinically proven treatments are "useless" because of them. Might just be human nature, but things always get taken way too far on hairsite when it comes to theories and mystery concoctions.

It starts off as harmless research, or a hunch, and inevitably turns into a frenzy of multi-site posting enthusiasts ... which inevitably fizzles to a bunch of very angry people who felt "duped" 6 months later. It is a cycle that has repeated itself so many times now that we've considered it downright dangerous to those in need of help. This is no reflection on the website itself, nor the people who post there. I do believe its a reflection of a lack of structure and direction provided by the site ownership, but that is just an opinion. The point is, its dangerous to newbies who aren't educated. Why?

One newbie not too long ago stumbled upon hairsite and got mislead into putting his hopes (and hair) into the then-current fad. When he found out it was all a scam, or did not work, he attempted suicide. The news was all over the websites.

This is why I have chosen to adopt a much more careful approach to what we focus on at HairlossTalk. Doesn't make this site better than HairSite in any fashion. Just a different focus. It's true that the educated hair loss sufferer can and should have the right to research, and even try anything he or she wants, as an intelligent adult. The unfortunate risk is the newbies and the uneducated, who can be completely lead astray by even one week of overfocus on something like 6-bap.

Picture a new guy who knows nothing, popping onto HairlossTalk, popping right to the forums, and seeing nothing but 6-bap chat for 2 weeks. He literally won't hear one word about Propecia, and may go on his way knowing nothing about proven versus unproven, what really works versus what may or may not work, etc. I've seen this happen over there time and time again, and to me that's dangerous. Its dangerous because these sites exist primarily to educate the uneducated, and secondly to protect the public from the already massive amounts of scam artists out there with fake snake oil tonics to sell. That is why I made this site, at least.

If there was a way to build an inherent base knowledge of hair loss into everyone *FIRST* I think it would be safe to have forums that do nothing other than explore alternatives, but since we can't do that, we do try to keep the forums focused on educating the user with solid science instead.

Though there may be 10-30 "regs" who already know all there is to know about hair loss, and we may lose them to other more experimental sites, our web statistics show that there are literally 1,000-3,000 newbies who just lurk here every day without ever posting. Because of those numbers, we know we must continually focus on basic education because this is the biggest need by web surfers, and is therefore the best service we can provide to our site visitors. Arming them with good solid science.

We are # 1 on Google for "hair loss". To assume that 90% of site visitors are scientifically educated enough to know all about DHT inhibitors versus growth stimulants, and clinically tested versus experimental, is just plain wrong. To cater to the minority is not logical, when you have a vast majority in need of basic understanding still.

Unfortunately, instead of being praised for this, we've always been heavily criticized (and even banned) for our stance on this topic. I think its a general misunderstanding of our motives, but nevertheless, we do what we gotta do.

As mentioned above, there is an "Unproven and Experimental Treatments" forum dedicated to exploration which you are welcome to post in. We felt that containing such topics to a separate forum was a good way to let all lurkers/newbies know that treatments they read about there, may not necessarily work, and thats really all we want to be sure of.

HairLossTalk.com
 

bombscience

Senior Member
Reaction score
7
Re: Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and oth

flux said:
Melvinpoorter said:
Why nothing about osteoscreen, Ru, T-flav, 6-bap and other topicals. There are a lot of interesting posts at hairsite. Some of these topicals seems to be a very good solution againts male pattern baldness. What do you guys think is the solution on the horizon?

This site is based on proven treatments. RU gets its nods but is still difficult to obtain and reliable statistics on its efficiency are not available. 6-Bap has yet to prove itself. And nobody knows a damned thing about how good osteoscreen works.

There is a forum for experimental treatments, but we just arnt those people. This community generally consists of people for whom the big three works. Other people visit, but the regulars here use the proven stuff with general success. Still, some of us (like myself) do keep an eye on other treatments, and I am watching Osteoscreen very closely. I read a post with vaguely good news made by one of the trialists (on another site). He didn't really describe its effect, but he was just 40 days into treatment. As long as he keeps talking, I think we'll know more in the coming months.

Flux, can you link me to the thread that contains the comments on the guy who is on Osteo?
 

richlocks

Established Member
Reaction score
1
RU is pretty damn easy to obtain. Go to HairSite and get it from faith eagle. If you have the money (about 800-900 bucks for a 1 year supply).. then you can get it.
 

HairlossTalk

Senior Member
Reaction score
6
Weird, i was just thinking about doing that earlier.

HairLossTalk.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
Like Richlocks said RU is easy to obtain.
Fluridil fairly easy to get.
6-BAP easy and cheap to make your own up and will be released by Lion shortly.
T-Flav - easy to get.

No disrespect but i think this site should embrace new treatments a bit more. Or at least be more open to them. If say minoxidil was released tommorow you guys would be calling it a scam and snake oil for years to come.

You guys are getting left behind a bit. For gods sake some people here are still using sh*t like Crinagen and Reviggoen.
 

HairlossTalk

Senior Member
Reaction score
6
zimmy said:
No disrespect but i think this site should embrace new treatments a bit more.
New treatments? Most of the fads that pop out of Hairsite don't qualify as legit "hair loss treatments" in the eyes of the medical or research community. They aren't surrounded with the clinical data necessary to legitimize them. They should simply be qualified as experimental treatments for those aware of the risks. That's all. I just can't, with a clear conscience, let them dominate our forums. If these things were the "next big thing", CNN and Newsweek would be all over them. Researchers all over the US would be mentioning them in seminars. The reality is, none of these parties so much as flinched when "Wasedas Formula" or "FNS" came bursting out of hairsite as "the latest cutting edge treatment". The only people who were raving were hairsite users who've declared themselves home schooled hair researchers.

You've asked why we don't embrace these "new treatments". We do give a forum for them here on the boards, but we feel that they should be properly categorized as experimental. This is just to protect and help keep the new visitors from confusion. On another note - we wonder why you don't embrace the need for more proof before you buy into something? At least acknowledge that you're exploring, experimenting, and going out on a limb with these things. Don't call them "new treatments" and criticize other sites for not giving over their entire discussion forums to such topics. That's not fair to us at all.

We simply are more careful. We are more concerned about the uneducated lurkers than HairSite is. We are more aware of them than HairSite is, and we know they comprise the *Vast* majority of the people who read these posts.

Its the vast *minority* that are already fully educated on hair loss, and spend their days experimenting with new concoctions. We're not here to cater to those people. HairSite shouldn't either. You feel its a crime we dont embrace questionable new fads. I think its a crime that HairSite does absolutely nothing to educate newbies on the basics of hair loss treatment. Starting at their home page you can't find a straight forward guide on basic education anywhere. You're immediately tossed into discussions on an elusive unpublished physician named Gho and discussions on several elusive concoctions. The people who come to these sites are the uneducated hair loss sufferers in need of help. They are the nearly 100% of people you walk by on the street every day who still don't know what Propecia is! Nobody knows! Ask around. They are the reason these sites should exist. There is still a huge need to educate the public. I don't think content that caters to an extreme minority should dominate a website.

Can't HairlossTalk just be the site that prefers to stick to the straight and narrow because of its genuine heartfelt concern for the uneducated public? Joe Blow walking down the street doesn't need to know about 6-BAP as much as he needs to know about Propecia and Rogaine and the host of other possibly helpful treatments. Alternative discussions are important, and we have a separate forum for them. You're welcome to post to your hearts content there. But most of our users need to learn about things you probably find "boring" and "old". Things that will help them *today*. We're not getting left behind. If anything, you guys are jumping forward, backwards, and all over the place - yet somehow you end up right back by our sides with Propecia and Rogaine as the foundation of all your own treatment regimens. If anything we're saving our energy.

zimmy said:
If say minoxidil was released tommorow you guys would be calling it a scam and snake oil for years to come.
If any of the fads that came out of hairsite had one tenth the amount of clinical data and FDA approval that Minoxidil had when it was released, we surely would welcome them. We'd also be hearing about it from the New York Times and several reputable researchers, instead of just a bunch of guys on HairSite. There is a million miles between Waseda's formula and Minoxidil. If you understood the difference between the two, you'd understand our position on this topic better.

zimmy said:
You guys are getting left behind a bit. For gods sake some people here are still using sh*t like Crinagen and Reviggoen.
We're simply being more careful about where we allow our focus to go. We've been convinced of the science behind Revivogen and Crinagen. Not so for 99% of the fads we see popping out of hairsite. Allow us to prefer this method over the recklessness that goes on at HairSite. I think properly categorizing the experimental treatments into a separate forum is fair, logical, and safe. Don't you?

You guys are welcome to experiment to your hearts delight, and if 6-BAP actually becomes recognized internationally, we will welcome and promote it as well. We're all on the same team here. We just have different priorities, and our priority here is solid science and protecting people from potential wasted money and lost hair. We've found that *too much* focus on unproven treatments distracts people and confuses our target audience, so we've appropriately categorized it and put it in its own section. Is that so wrong? (Stuart Smalley).

HairLossTalk.com
 
G

Guest

Guest
I would not call RU, 6-bap, Fluridil and Eil Crannel Alpha `fads`. They have a hell of a lot more to them than anything like FNS, crinagen or reviggoen. Maybe theres science behind Crinagen, Reviggoen and FNS, but what does it matter when an absolutely tiny minority of people have had success with them in a regimen.

I totally agree with you that Mr. Newbie should get his *** on propecia, minoxidil and nizoral. Because wthout these in a regimen its just a waste of time. I for one would never have a regimen without these core 3.

BUT the `new treatments` need more respect from you and your site because there not going away (although T-Flav IMO looks dodgy) and because people who arent newbies and have been using the big 3 for at least two years COULD benefit from using a strong topical anti-androgen like Fluridil or Eil Crannel AS well. spironolactone is good on paper but in reality it doesent cut it, its half-life is too short unless you apply it every couple of hours.

I totally agree Hairsite is a few clowns short of a circus (Frizz to name but one) and a terriblle place for a newbie to start. This site is the best place for a newbie hands down and this site helped me enormously when I first started out. For which I am very grateful. ':love:'

The future wont be with crinagen and reviggoen I can tell you that. Secretly I know your quite interested in the new `fad` treatments`. Go on admit it! ':rockon:'
 

Lizzad

Experienced Member
Reaction score
0
I would not call RU, 6-bap, Fluridil and Eil Crannel Alpha `fads`. They have a hell of a lot more to them than anything like FNS, crinagen or reviggoen.

More than likely in my opinion. Personally, i'd like to see the "Men's Hair Loss Treatments" section modified. For starters, Dermmatch, Toppik & Couvure aren't treatments any more than a toupe' is. Crinagen is just a complete croc in my opinion & revivogen has WAY too much attention there.

It wouldn't hurt to add Fluridil & Ell Crannel to the existing list of treatments, this shouldn't take anything away from the Founding Fathers of hairloss treatment...minoxidil, Propecia etc.

It's all about striking the correct balance imo...
 

HairlossTalk

Senior Member
Reaction score
6
zimmy said:
I would not call RU, 6-bap, Fluridil and Eil Crannel Alpha `fads`.
I never called RU or Fluridil a fad, and I don't think they have zero merit. My concern was about 6-BAP being a potential Fad. I carefully chose my words. I've been told that 6-BAP has a few private studies its leaning on. Ones that haven't been peer reviewed or published in any journals. This is why im apprehensive about it.

zimmy said:
They have a hell of a lot more to them ... reviggoen.
When you keep misspelling the product name I feel like you might not know much about the product itself. I just feel there is significantly more solid science behind revivogen's ingredients, including several studies that have actually been published in scientific journals. As far as I have been told thus far 6-BAP (just like Hair Genesis, Nioxin, etc etc etc) only has proprietary private studies that were never published to point to. That doesn't make me feel more comfortable about the product. It makes me feel less comfortable. Im just trying to be careful here.

zimmy said:
what does it matter when an absolutely tiny minority of people have had success with them in a regimen.
There is absolutely no logical scientific way for either of us to know how many have had success on Revivogen without a controlled study.

zimmy said:
BUT the `new treatments` need more respect from you and your site because there not going away
Again they aren't "new treatments" they're speculative potentials. There's a huge difference between when Minoxidil (a new treatment) came out, and these weird things that make it all the way to market without a single reporter knowing or caring about it ... yet us hair loss sites know all about it. To me, something is wrong there. Secondly, these things get the respect they deserve. We have a forum for them and you can talk about them to your hearts content there because our goal is accomplished - its properly categorized as unproven and experimental. "Not going away" ? Thats odd you say that because literally every single fad that has come out in the last few years has done just that - gone away. Zinc Oxide, Morehairin, FNS, Dermal Fusion... all of these originated with enthusiastic supporters who harshly criticized us for being "anti" the product ... but have now all fizzled to nothing. They do indeed go away. RU, Fluridil, etc... are experimental but have stood the test of time. My big question mark is on 6-BAP. We'll see how widespread its use is 6 months after it comes out. We'll see if the media picks up on it. We'll see if any actual reputable hair researchers show any interest in it. Thus far, zilch. Thats why im going the zilch route personally too, until more data is available.

zimmy said:
The future wont be with crinagen and reviggoen I can tell you that.
It's possible you're correctly only because I don't see Revivogen bothering to do any actual hair loss trials on its products, which Ive (believe it or not) been bugging them to do for nearly 4 years. I practice what I preach, even with the products I do promote. I constantly talk to these folks about FDA trials, independant trials, something to lend more credibility to them so my own personal conscience feels better about telling my users about them. Its difficult enough for me to even have an unproven treatments section because I don't have the proof *I* want that these things really work. So I do harass them like crazy for it. But I know that the science behind the ingredients is the *best* among the unproven options out there, and so I can sleep at night feeling that as long as I appropriately categorize these things, and appropriately warn people that they're unproven, that they wont be mislead. That truly is my base motivation. Avoiding misleading people.

zimmy said:
Secretly I know your quite interested in the new `fad` treatments`. Go on admit it! ':rockon:'
LOL. Thank you for adding a friendly comment to the end. Sorry if my comments above were a little strenuous sounding. You're actually right. Im dying for something new to come out, but the way my brain works, I only consider it a "new treatment" if it goes through the rigors of extensive testing. I could literally add 100 "unproven products" to the unproven products section today that I know "MIGHT" work based on "SORTA A LITTLE BIT OF SCIENCE" becuase all of them have that. It just doesn't scratch my itch. Its gotta really work, in a lot of people, over a long period of time, and its gotta be published and peer reviewed, and double blinded, etc etc etc before I can feel safe labeling it a "hair loss treatment".

Again zimmy - you can set up shop in our unproven section here on the forums and take over if you want. Post as much as you like. Im all for it because there, its properly categorized so the less educated wont get confused. Thats all I truly care about in the end. I totally support you guys who go out there and experiment. Believe it or not!

HairLossTalk.com
 

HairlossTalk

Senior Member
Reaction score
6
Lizzad said:
Personally, i'd like to see the "Men's Hair Loss Treatments" section modified. For starters, Dermmatch, Toppik & Couvure aren't treatments any more than a toupe' is.
Dermmatch isn't even on our site :roll: Toppik and Couvre' are appropriately labeled on the proven treatments section as cosmetic "Concealers" and are differentiated from "Growth Stimulants" and "DHT Inhibitors" very clearly. We put them there because they are a proven *option* for people losing hair. As for the product reviews section, they're appropriately in their own left sidebar area called "Cosmetic Options" and aren't mixed with the treatments section.

Zimmy said:
Crinagen is just a complete croc in my opinion & revivogen has WAY too much attention there.
Hey at least we don't have a huge ugly horrible full page multicolored neon ad like another site does claiming its a new discovery for hair loss in our news section on our home page :roll: Im just not into the whole deceptive technique thing. I think we give Revivogen the level of attention it is due: Its one of the best in the unproven realm as far as science backing it goes. If we have a disagreement, it would be on that last sentence. Crinagen literally has almost all the identical ingredients, so I don't see how it could be a "crock" and Revivogen not be.... ???

Lizzad said:
It wouldn't hurt to add Fluridil & Ell Crannel to the existing list of treatments
The problem is if you sit a hair researcher down and ask them to list the "hair loss treatments" out there, they would NOT list fluridil or Ell Crannel. They would list Propecia and Rogaine. If every single doctor in this country created a hair loss website, they would ONLY LIST Propecia and Rogaine because these are technically the ONLY HAIR LOSS TREATMENTS out there. I don't think you guys are getting my point on this issue. We are already stretching it past acceptable science to even promote things like Folligen or Crinagen or Revivogen, because they're not recognized hair loss treatments. So how can I in good conscience label Fluridil a new "Hairloss treatment". Technically its not. Revivogen isn't either. They can't even legally make this claim.

There is a whole world of rules, laws set by the FDA, requirements expected by even the most uneducated doctor out there that I feel like you guys just are not following, and dont care about. You're calling things hair loss treatments that can't legally be called that, you don't require the level of testing that the FDA requires, etc et cetc. That is why these things will always be unproven and experimental in my eyes. I try my best to follow what the criteria set forth by the medical community for labeling something a hair loss treatment. Its really honestly very weird to be criticized for that sometimes. It just seems backwards. I hope that makes sense.

Lizzad said:
It's all about striking the correct balance imo...
In my opinion its all about properly cateogorizing and labeling things. Im all for promoting RU, Fluridil, FNS, Zinc Oxide, and hell... even Dermal Fusion if people realize its not proven and may one day be shown to be fake. Dermal Fusion was exactly that. A hairsite started Fad that was shown to be a total fraud after about 5 months. Thus the pitfalls of buying into anything and everything you see there. Thus our cautiousness. If they know the risks ahead of time, I can sleep at night knowing im not confusing or misleading people. Thus the Unproven Treatments section of this forum.

You guys should go in there and take the place over. Its a ghost town :) You wont hit any conflicts from the moderation there, because we put it there for a reason.

HairLossTalk.com
 
Top