Why The 'prostaglandin Protocol' Will Make Your Face Look Like sh*t

[IdealForehead]

Do you have time to explain that a little bit?

hahaha sure I'm a little high right now but here goes.

Not much to say. It's a balloon that gets implanted under the skin behind the hairline. It's kind of a kidney bean shape to contour to the natural shape of a hairline. Attached to this balloon is a little dome about 1" diameter connected to the balloon by a tube.

Kind of like the top right model here, only the tubing should be connected to the concave aspect of the kidney bean.

This device is implanted through a 3-4" incision at the hairline. It is implanted under the galea, which is the fascia that connects the muscles of your forehead to the muscles of the back of the head. This means it is implanted DIRECTLY AGAINST YOUR SKULL. YOU WILL FEEL AND HEAR METAL SCRAPE ACROSS YOUR RAW SKULL while the doctor is stretching open this space and pushing the balloon into place, under only local anesthetic.

It's a pretty weird experience. I was pretty sore after. I posted on this site I think I was eating around 80 mg oxycodone a day in the first 2 days. It reminded me a lot of jaw surgery pain. Very strong.

Now, I can have a family member insert a needle through my scalp, through my galea, and into the "port" of the device which is at my crown, and inject water. I'm supposed to inject 20 mL twice a week until I reach around ~450 mL. 450 mL! That's like a water bottle! This balloon is going to get huge! It's a pretty hilarious surgery really. I plan on wearing a fedora to cover it when it gets really bulbous.

Then after I reach full volume, the surgeon will knock me out, take out the balloon, stretch down my hairline, cut out around 3.5 cm of forehead, and then stitch me back together. That's basically the whole deal. I have put expansion on hold as I'm waiting for the rest of my hair to grow back first. There's no rush really once the expander is in. It can just sit for months if needed. At least so I'm told.

Here's an example of a good forehead reduction outcome:

It's meant for people born with too high a hairline, not to correct hair loss.

 

[bridgeburn]

hahaha sure I'm a little high right now but here goes.

Not much to say. It's a balloon that gets implanted under the skin behind the hairline. It's kind of a kidney bean shape to contour to the natural shape of a hairline. Attached to this balloon is a little dome about 1" diameter connected to the balloon by a tube.

Kind of like the top right model here, only the tubing should be connected to the concave aspect of the kidney bean.

View attachment 70023

This device is implanted through a 4-5" incision at the hairline. It is implanted under the galea, which is the fascia that connects the muscles of your forehead to the muscles of the back of the head. This means it is implanted DIRECTLY AGAINST YOUR SKULL. YOU WILL FEEL AND HEAR METAL SCRAPE ACROSS YOUR RAW SKULL while the doctor is stretching open this space and pushing the balloon into place, under only local anesthetic.

It's a pretty weird experience. I was pretty sore after. I posted on this site I think I was eating around 80 mg oxycodone a day in the first 2 days. It reminded me a lot of jaw surgery pain. Very strong.

Now, I can have a family member insert a needle through my scalp, through my galea, and into the "port" of the device which is at my crown, and inject water. I'm supposed to inject 20 mL twice a week until I reach around ~450 mL. 450 mL! That's like a water bottle! This balloon is going to get huge! It's a pretty hilarious surgery really. I plan on wearing a fedora to cover it when it gets really bulbous.

Then after I reach full volume, the surgeon will knock me out, take out the balloon, stretch down my hairline, cut out around 3.5 cm of forehead, and then stitch me back together. That's basically the whole deal. I have put expansion on hold as I'm waiting for the rest of my hair to grow back first. There's no rush really once the expander is in. It can just sit for months if needed. At least so I'm told.

Here's an example of a good forehead reduction outcome:

View attachment 70024

It's meant for people born with too high a hairline, not to correct hair loss.

That sounds f*****g terrifying.

do you think forehead reduction surgery could cause hairloss from the skin getting too tight?

 

[HairCook]

How is minoxidil suddenly PGE2 everywhere? According to swiss it was PGE1.

Pubmed came always with a grain of salt, when I read a 'possible' you can tell already that you can forget that paper.

'The biggest joke is that he used real pge1 in the studies but then uses a precursor in the commercial product (cause no regulatory authority would allow pge1 to be sold). The problem is that precursors don't magically turn into what we want them to, else cocaine dealers would be out of business. PGE1 by the way is what makes minoxidil work, at least in the people that have enough sulfurtransferase for minoxidil -to- work.'

If it was PGE2 it would be way more potent.

 

[IdealForehead]

How is minoxidil suddenly PGE2 everywhere? According to swiss it was PGE1.

Pubmed came always with a grain of salt, when I read a 'possible' you can tell already that you can forget that paper.

'The biggest joke is that he used real pge1 in the studies but then uses a precursor in the commercial product (cause no regulatory authority would allow pge1 to be sold). The problem is that precursors don't magically turn into what we want them to, else cocaine dealers would be out of business. PGE1 by the way is what makes minoxidil work, at least in the people that have enough sulfurtransferase for minoxidil -to- work.'

If it was PGE2 it would be way more potent.

Are you aware of any studies that validate this? I have not been able to find anything suggesting this.

Either way both pge1 and pge2 are terrible for collagen and skin in everything I've researched. From what I've experienced so is minoxidil.

 

[IdealForehead]

Fascinating. I was just about to go to bed and I found this pertaining to the anti-histamine cetirizine increasing PGE2 release:

Cetirizine (0.1-10 micrograms/ml) enhanced PGE2 release by resting human monocytes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7741033
​

In addition, anti-histamines like the related desloratadine reduce inflammatory mediators like PGD2 and plenty of others too:

In vitro studies have shown that desloratadine inhibits the release or generation of multiple inflammatory mediators, including IL-4, IL-6, IL-8, IL-13, PGD(2), leukotriene C(4), tryptase, histamine, and the TNF-alpha-induced chemokine RANTES.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11295678​

Topical antihistamines may therefore have some very interesting mechanisms of action via prostaglandin manipulation and blocking inflammatory chemical signalling.

I just added desloratadine 1% to my formulation yesterday, but of course, with everything else I'm using, I won't really be able to say how much help it provides.

I still think this is a very worthwhile agent for people to consider trying, with a very low risk of side effects or problems, and a not insignificant chance of good benefits. As stated before, we have two studies showing topical cetirizine 1% works for stimulating regrowth. Desloratadine is basically the same but more stable in alcohol. So it makes a good choice for those already mixing their own topicals.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Fascinating. I was just about to go to bed and I found this pertaining to the anti-histamine cetirizine increasing PGE2 release:

Cetirizine (0.1-10 micrograms/ml) enhanced PGE2 release by resting human monocytes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7741033
​

In addition, anti-histamines like the related desloratadine reduce inflammatory mediators like PGD2 and plenty of others too:

In vitro studies have shown that desloratadine inhibits the release or generation of multiple inflammatory mediators, including IL-4, IL-6, IL-8, IL-13, PGD(2), leukotriene C(4), tryptase, histamine, and the TNF-alpha-induced chemokine RANTES.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11295678​

Topical antihistamines may therefore have some very interesting mechanisms of action via prostaglandin manipulation and blocking inflammatory chemical signalling.

I just added desloratadine 1% to my formulation yesterday, but of course, with everything else I'm using, I won't really be able to say how much help it provides.

I still think this is a very worthwhile agent for people to consider trying, with a very low risk of side effects or problems, and a not insignificant chance of good benefits. As stated before, we have two studies showing topical cetirizine 1% works for stimulating regrowth. Desloratadine is basically the same but more stable in alcohol. So it makes a good choice for those already mixing their own topicals.

Interesting, were finding more ways to attack male pattern baldness than just the androgens. I might be interested in adding Desloratadine too, is it expensive, and keep us updated I'm glad you didn't just disappear like most people who solved their hairloss.

 

[arnoldd]

Nice post bro. I think your mistake is using oral minoxidil. Like you said, topical works better and a little goes into your bloodstream.
The study said 2-5mg when you apply to the ENTIRE SCALP.

If you dont apply to a large zone the absorption is only 1,4% = 0,85mg..its very little to make any difference in skin quality.
If not, women couldnt touch minoxidil

 

[HairCook]

I kinda quit the idea of antihistamine. In german forums the tried Cet already topically 5 years go. The results were terrible, not surprising, they kill also the growth relevants pgs. If you use it, just use it on your already complete bald spots as temples and whatever.

 

[IdealForehead]

I kinda quit the idea of antihistamine. In german forums the tried Cet already topically 5 years go. The results were terrible, not surprising, they kill also the growth relevants pgs. If you use it, just use it on your already complete bald spots as temples and whatever.

That's exactly what I've been concerned about. That if they block some of the inflammation that triggers growth, ie work too broadly, the effects will be poor.

But the two scientific studies done on cetirizine showed good results.

So I don't know what to think.

I've added desloratadine to my topical but I don't know if it was a good idea or not. Can't come to a clear conclusion.

 

[Saulus]

This is just fitting

I recently try to figure out if metformin (the trending anti ageing drug - helps with wrinkles etc - can cause hairloss bc there are a lot of reports on the internet about this even though metformin raises sghb and thus probably lowers dht and helps with insulin resistance.

Both are effects which actually should help with hairloss

So i digged deeper and bingo:

Just read that metformin works as cox2 inhibitor which means it lowers pge pgf and pgd


https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...th-male-pattern-baldness.110014/#post-1585406


Basically one of thing that helps with your skin, your health etc fuk up your hair

 

[Saulus]

Btw how does finasteride affect prostaglandin?

 

[HairCook]

Btw how does finasteride affect prostaglandin?

PGs are DHT sensitive. The more DHT, the more PGD2.

Cox inhibotors also effect pge2. Never apply that globally cause it is going to mess with your terminal hair.

 

[furrydome]

PGs are DHT sensitive. The more DHT, the more PGD2.

Cox inhibotors also effect pge2. Never apply that globally cause it is going to mess with your terminal hair.

HairCook - Reading your regimen I'm curious - why the Diclofenac? Don't all NSAIDS (COX inhibitors) mess with prostaglandins in ways that are bad for hair growth?

 

[HairCook]

HairCook - Reading your regimen I'm curious - why the Diclofenac? Don't all NSAIDS (COX inhibitors) mess with prostaglandins in ways that are bad for hair growth?

There is study where 70 yo farts still grew some hair with diclo, some few individuals on german forums had success and are still using it (they use it as 1% lotion). I assume there is a sweet spot, where you benefit more of blocking both. I dont have the cash for seti. I was between trying topical cetirizine or just once a week diclo to 'give my scalp a break'. I also use it only on one temple with lactic acid to see if there is any difference. According to the how2 in the german forums you need an acid like citric acid at 3%, the entire lactat study just made me wanna try it. I also couldnt find pure cetirizine, I wanted to try 2% or maybe even 3% but with the filling material you wont get much more than 1%, it is a week pgd2 inhibitor after all. (pls tell me if some1 got a trick around it ;P)

I also remember a lot of people using diclo globally, getting some venus and losing quality on terminals(most ppl failed anyways on it). Maybe you can grow some hair only using it on the temples and then nourish them with your other stuff.

Also NSAIDs do increase tnfa which is really important for hf neogenesis during wound regeneration.

Most of this is just the despair of not having the cash for seti etc and living in germany where customs are a b**ch. XD

 

[kiwipilu]

Why Hairloss Will Make Your Face Look Like sh*t

 

[heyhey]

Minoxidil have had no ageing effect on my face, no bags or wrinkles or anything like that. I dont rly believe this stuff, and i have used it everyday for 2 years soon.

 

[Georgie]

I mean, collagen increase related to Androgenetic Alopecia is also concerned with fibrosis, so you could say in a way that pge2 etc manipulation is an anti-fibrotic measure. That said, I agree with the effects you have described. I use oral minoxidil, bimat and sulfasalazine and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my skin and eyes are worse off. Droopy bottom eyelids, wrinkles and coarse, dull-looking skin. Dark circles.. and obviously the old facial bloating which is a separate matter. Overall it’s obvious at least to me that your skin will take a serious hit with this stuff. It’s interesting, because we know that estrogen is good for hair, and technically estrogen promotes tissues and collagen growth, and subcutaneous fat. I have been using the estriol twice a day now for a little while and I also take collagen supplements. I think I see a minor improvement in my skin but nothing to rave about. I think that once we figure out how to locally attack hairloss without systemically screwing with important pathological processes, we will be near a cure. I’ve my eye on stem cells. Anyway, good post. The PGD protocol is dangerous and for the most part ineffective from what I see anyway.

 

[Saulus]

What collagen supplements are you taking?

 

[Georgie]

What collagen supplements are you taking?

Me? I use a turmeric/collagen supplement that I found. I’ve tried a few different ones. I feel like estrogens have always been the best for my skin though.

 

[whatevr]

I mean, collagen increase related to Androgenetic Alopecia is also concerned with fibrosis, so you could say in a way that pge2 etc manipulation is an anti-fibrotic measure. That said, I agree with the effects you have described. I use oral minoxidil, bimat and sulfasalazine and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my skin and eyes are worse off. Droopy bottom eyelids, wrinkles and coarse, dull-looking skin. Dark circles.. and obviously the old facial bloating which is a separate matter. Overall it’s obvious at least to me that your skin will take a serious hit with this stuff. It’s interesting, because we know that estrogen is good for hair, and technically estrogen promotes tissues and collagen growth, and subcutaneous fat. I have been using the estriol twice a day now for a little while and I also take collagen supplements. I think I see a minor improvement in my skin but nothing to rave about. I think that once we figure out how to locally attack hairloss without systemically screwing with important pathological processes, we will be near a cure. I’ve my eye on stem cells. Anyway, good post. The PGD protocol is dangerous and for the most part ineffective from what I see anyway.

After 2 years of minoxidil I have deep wrinkles on my bottom eyelids worse than dudes who are 35 or 40 years old. Seriously wanna quit the sh*t but I fear what my hair will look like because it did help. If only I could de-miniaturize my hair to the point where it would look the same without it as it did on it.