wont use finasteride... what should I start with?

[Zen2Bald]

I am norwood 1.5 i guess... and diffusely thinning at 24 years old. I use Nizotal 1% every 2-3 days.

At this point I am not ready to use finasteride. I am not convinced that it is ok to reduce DHT levels so drastically... Also I have heard that because minoxidil only works for two years, it is best to save it for later.

So I am left with:

1. Rx Proxiphen - Expensive, but seems to have a lot of great components
2. Topical spironolactone - Not sure if this even works...
3. Prox-N - Not sure what this stuff is worth.
3. Zix - very cheap, but only anecdotal evidence

any other ideas or recommendations (besides revivogen/lasercomb) ?

 

[Pirate Commander F.B.]

Well the harsh reality of treating hairloss is this: if you're not willing to use propecia/finasteride, you pretty much don't have a chance. I don't like it either, but it's better that someone tells you this now so you don't have to find out the hard way.

 

[Zen2Bald]

While I agree that these other products are not likely to have a large effect, I will take any extra time I can get.

 

[viperfish]

I would go for eucapil. Can be found at menspharma.com. A powerful antiandrogen, which seems to be quite effective based upon user ratings. Much more so than spironolactone. I would use eucapil over any of the other products you have listed there. Although, Proxiphen would also be a great choice, but like you said very expensive.

 

[Zen2Bald]

thanks! I forgot about eucapil.

It does look very interesting indeed... I just wish it was FDA approved...or at least approved in the E.U. I know that they were seeking approval in France, but I am not sure what came of it.
Maybe I will check it out.

I dont even mind the cost of Proxiphen so much...its the fact that u get so little. I have heard a lot of complaints about not being able to get the recommended 1/10 of a tsp to cover the affected areas of the scalp.

 

[misterium]

Take finasteride, 1mg daily.

There's no reason not to, unless you get bad side effects.

Any other reasons you give are complete speculation and paranoia.

 

[Zen2Bald]

Take finasteride, 1mg daily.

There's no reason not to, unless you get bad side effects.

Any other reasons you give are complete speculation and paranoia.

WRONG!

Propecia has been shown to cause Peyronies disease in rats, and it is possible that in peyronies succeptible individuals it can also occur.
DHT has been shown to help regulate smooth muscle in the penis...so this makes a lot of sense
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

There are a group of people on a few peyronies forums that came down with the disease shortly after starting propecia...
A few people with ED and/or peyronies are even being treated by world renown endocrinologist Dr. Eugene Shippen. He is quoted as saying that for some people taking propecia the body "turns something off" in response to a feedback loop caused by the drop in DHT. This can (in extremely rare cases) cause LONG LASTING and PERMANENT ED. In Shippen's book "The Testosterone Syndrome" he even mentions propecia.


Please educate yourself.... and dont rain on my thread.
Im asking for propecia alternatives.

 

[misterium]

Yup, you might get hit by a car and get paralyzed too. So stay off the roads.

Like I said, paranoia.

 

[Zen2Bald]

Yup, you might get hit by a car and get paralyzed too. So stay off the roads.

Like I said, paranoia.

Hairloss is a cosmetic issue... and to me it is not worth risking my sexual function to halt it....no matter how small the risk. Especially when there are risks of PERMANENT damage/changes.

I dont want to debate this... im only asking for suggestions not relating to propecia.

I would hardly call it paranoia when there are studies to back it up.

Why do you think DHT is produced by the body?
Surely it serves a purpose.

 

[hairschmair]

from what I understand, finasteride and minoxidil are the only treatments that have been proven to make a significant difference :-(.

 

[misterium]

Zen: You are right, there is a possibility of sides from finasteride use.. it's just they are very rare according to the FDA.

You can take the stuff for awhile, and if you have any sides, you can stop, and everything will return to normal again.. minus those extreme gyno cases and that very rare sounding concern of yours.

Take finasteride, if after a few months you have no sides, keep taking it... otherwise, you're being paranoid for not even giving it a shot.

I'm not debating anything, by the way, I'm just explaining that finasteride is a very safe substance for the VAST majority of users. Sides are rare.

Did you get sides? What makes you think you will? Paranoia.

 

[Old Baldy]

I think you have good alternatives. Now give them a try and let us know how it turns out in 12 months. You seem to be entrenched in what you're going to take. So it's time to start IMHO.

 

[misterium]

Why do you think DHT is produced by the body?
Surely it serves a purpose.

DHT serves a purpose, but if it's causing you hairloss or prostate problems, blocking a percentage of it is the best thing you can do... fear of sides is not a good reason, unless you actually have had sides.

DHT while it has reasons to be there, can have enough percentage of it blocked without any noticable changes in the majority of users' bodies..

Actually, the only noticable changes may be maintaining and/or regrowing hair.

 

[Zen2Bald]

I dont think we know enough about the endocrine system and its various feedback loops to make the conclusion that one can take propecia and then stop...and assume that everything will go back to normal.

Hormone systems are very complicated.

When one takes testosterone often the body shuts down normal production... some steroid users are left in the position where they have to kickstart production again with gonadotropin stimulating drugs.

I am not saying that a similar thing happens with propecia. I am merely giving an example of a hormonal feedback system.

What makes you so sure that one does not exist for DHT?


Also propecia decreases levels of the allopregnanolone which is synthesized by the body from pregnanolone with 5AR.

"5 alpha reductase (5AR) is an enzyme which comes in two forms, type I
and type II. It not only converts testosterone (T) to
dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a ketone), it also converts progesterone to
allopregnanolone and deoxycorticosterone (Doctor) to tetrahydroDOC (THDOC),
both allosteric enhancers of the GABA(a) receptor (e.g., they increase
the effectiveness of inhibition signals relayed along GABA channels in
nerves). "

I am not sure that I want to reduce anything that is meant to enhance GABA functioning.

I just dont think we know enough about the effects of lowering allopregnanolone and tetrahydroDOC levels...not to mention DHT.

 

[gonna_win]

I would consider minoxidil. But first I recommend you educate yourself on the product so you know exactly what your getting into.

 

[misterium]

All that stuff you wrote.. way too much for me, I like to keep things simple.

I already know about the FDA studies, that's enough piece-of-mind for my tastes.

Plus, 8 months, zero sides, so far so good.

Nothing to fear, you should give it a try.

minoxidil might make your scalp itch, or give you heart problems.... does that scare you too?

 

[Petchsky]

Zen,

Although propecia is the best approved drug available, there are alternatives they just need more research, that i have not really done, as i use it. Anyway, HairLossTalk.com, the owner of this site stopped using propecia after around 2 years with good success and now uses spironolactone and Revivogen and seems pleased enough. There is also a topical called RU 5771 which is probably the most potent anti androgen and blocks DHT.

You already mentioned Proxiphen which also looks like a good alternative or addition.

 

[misterium]

Any educated doctor would suggest you start Propecia, unless of course you have some specific pre-existing medical condition.

 

[kevinme]

I wouldn't recommend propecia. I've been on it for almost 6 months and my hair situation at the front has worsened a lot. My hairline is almost as far as my temples at the moment. So I would recommend spironolactone and minoxidil and or perhaps Fluridil.

 

[Demlotcrew]

What about people who are not going bald? Their level of DHT is naturally reduced and they seem to survive, what makes you think that they are in less danger of low DHT levels than us taking the pil?

Andrew