wont use finasteride... what should I start with?

[kevinme]

I wouldn't recommend propecia. I've been on it for almost 6 months and my hair situation at the front has worsened a lot.

You SHOULDN'T recommend Propecia.. you've only been on it 6 months! Give it a year or more before deciding if you want to continue taking it or not.

.. Your shedding is either a sign that the Propecia is starting to block DHT, and you're body is reacting.. or it is simply male pattern baldness related shedding.. but it IS NOT CAUSED BY FINASTERIDE in that your hairline to become worse.. that is not how finasteride works!

finasteride won't cause your hair to look worse.

Uhm every heard of Reflex Hyperandrogenicity or just an adverse reaction to Fina?

Btw why should I "trust" Finasteride for 6 more months? It has only worsened my hairline a lot. Why should it get better in the coming 6 moths? I also used Fluridil in the past 6 months and I seriously think that Fluridil doesn't work because of Fina.

So that's why I'm thinking of spironolactone, minoxidil and Xandrox WITHOUT Fina.

 

[Petchsky]

If you only use meds for 6 months then you will probably get the same response with every treatment you use.

 

[bluesmiley]

I agree with Petchsky. You simply can't draw conclusions about a treatment after only 6 months of use, though some people see results that fast. For some people, though, it can take a full year to really see a significant reduction in hair loss and any signs of improvement, simply because the hair growth/rest cycle is extremely long.

This is where topicals really get hammered, I believe, because a lot of people don't have the kind of faith and patience it takes to stick to them long enough to see if they work. I think someone is much more likely to stay on Propecia for that length of time because of all the credibility it has, plus the FDA backing of course.

 

[bluesmiley]

I will also add that I had a HELLACIOUS shed after being on revivogen a little over a month - so much so that I nearly abandoned it altogether. I did see a gradual reduction in hair loss, though, and after 9 months of use the amount of hair I lose on any given day is almost negligible. It's sometimes frustrating because I'm not seeing a lot of regrowth, but then I remember anyone on a strictly "DHT inhibiting" regimen (as opposed to one that includes minoxidil) is unlikely to see a lot of regrowth.

Your hairline getting worse is probably a good sign, cuz if you're on treatments, things often have to get worse before they get better. If you're losing hair on propecia, it's probably hair that was on its way out anytime, and the process is just being rushed along. The plus side is that you may actually get healthier hairs slowly taking their place, unlike what would happen if you weren't doing anything about the hair loss.

 

[Demlotcrew]

finasteride should be the last resort. Its the after effects that concern me, as they can be permanent and the only way to tell is to try but then its too late.

SO im not taking it.

Andrew

 

[hairschmair]

finasteride should be the last resort. Its the after effects that concern me, as they can be permanent and the only way to tell is to try but then its too late.

SO im not taking it.

Andrew

That's interesting cause I'm using it as a FIRST resort.

 

[viperfish]

finasteride is the best thing you can use. However, I do understand your concerns as I have many of the same. Some people are not comfortable with using a drug for an extended period of time. I don't blame you! It is just that there is not much out there that can stand up to the effectiveness of finasteride. However, I do think eucapil is your best chance at the moment. When RU becomes available it should be better than finasteride and it will be a topical, but until that time there is no question in my mind that eucapil is the way to go!!!

 

[Demlotcrew]

What is RU?

Andrew

 

[viperfish]

What is RU?

Andrew

RU is a topical antiandrogen. It is the most powerful antiandrogen available. Bryan, has posted a study that showed that RU was more effective than finasteride. However, when it will really become available I don't know. You can obtain it now, but it is sort of difficult and I don't trust who sells it. I also question whether or not it is really RU.

 

[bluesmiley]

Since this post was started to find alternatives to finasteride (this was rather explicitly stated repeatedly by zen2bald and subsequently disregarded by other posters), I will reiterate that I have a high degree of confidence that until gene therapy and/or follicular multiplication becomes readily available, topicals will be the ideal route to fight hair loss, and may already be if you can put up with applying them regularly.

RU may indeed kick finasteride's booty, but Eucapil may already kick finasteride's booty, and I'd be willing to bet that Revivogen and Eucapil used together, while very expensive, would kick finasteride's booty. That's just my educated guess though, considering that from everything I've read, finasteride only blocks about 40% of scalp DHT.

 

[Zen2Bald]

I dont mind the debate...I do think its funny that the thread turned out this way.


Im thinking of taking the plunge with Eucapil. My only concerns are with the isopropyl alcohol. Apparently there is some debate as to whether isopropyl alcohol is absorbed by the body when applied topically (where it is turned into acetone).

"You can also be exposed to acetone if you are exposed to isopropyl alcohol, because isopropyl alcohol changes to acetone in the body."

Acetone is not something to be messed with...
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs21.html

I am curious as to why something like propylene glycol wasn't used instead.

This is one reason why Lipoxidil.com dropped Eucapil.

"We were in email contact with some dermatologists. All of them say a long
term use of pure (!) isopropylalcohol ( which is the main ingredient of
Eucapil) is not recommended. A short term use for a couple of months is of
no concern but Eucapil has to be applied every day for the rest of your
life. According to the manufacturers website Fluridil is only stable in pure
isopropylalcohol. Until this has changed we will not offer EUCAPIL any
longer. Everybody who used Eucapil knows how intense the alcohol is -
especially after getting in your eye. "

BUT then of course the makers of Eucapil debate this...so there is no telling who is right... I really dont know enough about this. Maybe I should call a few Derms

 

[Petchsky]

The makers would deny it though...mmm.

Plus Bluesmilely, propecia does only block 40% scalp DHT but it blocks 60/70 of type 2? DHT which is the main cause of male pattern baldness. I think scalp DHT is type 1 that does not have the same effect.

Viper - There was a poster from hairlosshelp, Funkster who had his own site which is now unavailable who bought RU from a Chinese website and that was real RU...Thing is you get it as a powder and have to make it into a topical yourself. He had great results though.

 

[Demlotcrew]

I dont mind the debate...I do think its funny that the thread turned out this way.


Im thinking of taking the plunge with Eucapil. My only concerns are with the isopropyl alcohol. Apparently there is some debate as to whether isopropyl alcohol is absorbed by the body when applied topically (where it is turned into acetone).

"You can also be exposed to acetone if you are exposed to isopropyl alcohol, because isopropyl alcohol changes to acetone in the body."

Acetone is not something to be messed with...
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs21.html

I am curious as to why something like propylene glycol wasn't used instead.

This is one reason why Lipoxidil.com dropped Eucapil.

"We were in email contact with some dermatologists. All of them say a long
term use of pure (!) isopropylalcohol ( which is the main ingredient of
Eucapil) is not recommended. A short term use for a couple of months is of
no concern but Eucapil has to be applied every day for the rest of your
life. According to the manufacturers website Fluridil is only stable in pure
isopropylalcohol. Until this has changed we will not offer EUCAPIL any
longer. Everybody who used Eucapil knows how intense the alcohol is -
especially after getting in your eye. "

BUT then of course the makers of Eucapil debate this...so there is no telling who is right... I really dont know enough about this. Maybe I should call a few Derms

Ive ordered some, after a month i will pay the local doctor a visit, ask him to test my urine/blood for levels of acetone in my system, if its within tolerant levels then ill keep using it.

Andrew

 

[Zen2Bald]

Ive ordered some, after a month i will pay the local doctor a visit, ask him to test my urine/blood for levels of acetone in my system, if its within tolerant levels then ill keep using it.

Andrew

Sounds like a great idea. Keep us posted.

 

[viperfish]

I've heard this acetone thing brought up many times and every time it is dismissed as something not to worry about. I know bryan and some others have discussed this in detail. I really don't think there is any harm with the isopropyl alcohol and I'm sure this has already been looked into by the makers of eucapil. However, it could cause some irritation, but most that I have talked to say this is not a problem when using eucapil. This may be due to the grape seed oil that they have added to the solution to stop the oxidation of the alcohol. I think those that have a really sensitive scalp will have problems with eucapil, but then will also have problems with revivogen, spironolactone, and minoxidil. I don't know how my scalp will react with it, but I'll let you know as soon as my order arrives.

 

[Demlotcrew]

I dont have sensitive skin so im going on it, i just dont like the idea or the principles of finasteride in my body.

Andrew

 

[viperfish]

If you did have any negative effects from the acetone they would be noticeable and reversible if you discontinue its use. However, the makers of eucapil insist there are no side effects whatsoever.

 

[viperfish]

From the EPA website:

"Probable routes of human exposure to isopropyl alcohol are inhalation and ingestion."

It does not list anything about it being absorbed through the skin and causing a problem through the use of cosmetic products. In fact, it is found in many cosmetic products.

This is from menspharma: I asked about the safety of isopropyl alcohol and if it was possible for it to be converted to acetone within the body, absorbed through the scalp.

Normally we are able to answer 99% of questions here. That is a very specific question you ask which is probably best answered by the scientific team at the manufacturers of Eucapil; Interpharma.

What we can say is that Isopropyl Alcohol (also known as ‘rubbing alcohol’) is used in a large number of freely available non prescription products.

This last statement of course we all know to be true. Bryan has said that acetone is used as the transport system for some other topicals.

 

[viperfish]

Zen2bald I decided to go and read the fluridil study again. I wanted to see what they said about the placebo group, who applied only isopropyl alcohol for 3 months.
This is straight from the research:

""Neither fluridil nor the placebo (just isopropyl alcohol) group affected the blood chemistry or hematologic parameters.""

So I would think that they looked for acetone within the blood and did not find any trace of it throughout the testings. They would have noticed anything strange in the blood! I'm glad you brought this up because I never thought of that. However, I do think it is safe. They also mention in the study that isopropyl alcohol is completely safe to use and is recognized that way by most pharmacopoeias!

 

[Zen2Bald]

Viper,

I just replied to you on HLH before I saw this...


I had missed that data in the study about hepatoxic factors... That is definitely encouraging. Thanks for posting that.

I am very close to ordering some. As you can tell I am very cautious with these things and like to iron out all the details.

I just wish I knew more about why lipoxidil dropped Eucapil. For some reason I sense that there was perhaps something else going on... I cant be sure though.