You think this guy is balding ?

[iwantperfection]

r u thick? so your saying everyguy that does not have male pattern baldness has same head of hair at 60 that he had at 20? everyone thins out a bit as we age. call it male pattern baldness if you will.

 

[Thickandthin]

r u thick? so your saying everyguy that does not have male pattern baldness has same head of hair at 60 that he had at 20? everyone thins out a bit as we age. call it male pattern baldness if you will.

Direct quote from Dr. Rassman:

Old age does not cause hair thinning — just look at Ronald Reagan at the end of his life.

There is another quoted figure that people might, emphasis on MIGHT, lose 1% of their total density per year after a certain age. It's not proven. Even so, the loss in density is usually never enough to be noticeable. And sure as hell isn't going to be noticeable in a 34 year old man.

And I still say he's balding. But who really cares.

 

[s.a.f]

In hair terms Reagan was in like the top 0.1% of geneticly gifted guys. Baldness is baldness, loosing your hair ontop and looking BALD. Thinning happens to women too so I guess all women must have m.p.b then? :roll:

 

[iwantperfection]

thankyou saf. if a guy is nw1 most of his life but by 45 say is slightly thinner but still nw1 i dont call that male pattern baldness. no pattern and no baldness. i have to say i dont know one guy over 50 that has hair like he did when he was a young man. reagen hair is very rare. thinning due to age is not male pattern baldness.

 

[hairrific]

There are many different things that can kick start or activate male pattern baldness and it can happen at any time and it is different for everyone, age has nothing, nothing nothing to do with it.

He is thinning. If he does not do something fast he will have a bald spot in a year or two that will show or wait till he gets older....bamm! Looks like he is increasing his testosterone judging from his muscles. Seen it been there done that.

At age 46 for the first time EVER I noticed thinning at my crown to the point I saw irritated scalp and shower drain full of hair. Balding just was NOT NOT NOT on my radar. And why should it be. I always had a thick head of hair and no baldness in the family. I still have a very thick head of long hair but at the time I was drinking muscle milk, protein shakes, dosing with herbs that shoot your hormones way up, and working out. I was feeling it too and looking the part. I am sure what I was doing was a major cause of my hair loss, upping my dht to a point of damage and maybe that is what is happening to him.

Now that I am on propecia the edge is off, hair has made a comeback, but god it was a scary time cause it just was NOT on my radar.

 

[Fundi]

At age 46 for the first time EVER I noticed thinning at my crown to the point I saw irritated scalp and shower drain full of hair. Balding just was NOT NOT NOT on my radar. And why should it be. I always had a thick head of hair and no baldness in the family. I still have a very thick head of long hair but at the time I was drinking muscle milk, protein shakes, dosing with herbs that shoot your hormones way up, and working out. I was feeling it too and looking the part. I am sure what I was doing was a major cause of my hair loss, upping my dht to a point of damage and maybe that is what is happening to him.

Is there any actual proof that working out causes hairloss? I mean, at 46 it certainly wouldn't have been unusual for you to lose hair, regardless of whether you'd been working out or not.

 

[elvis123]

I don't think working out will cause hair loss.....there are tons of body builders and athletes who work out on a daily basis who still have all their hair

 

[s.a.f]

Not to mention the huge steroid use aswell.

 

[hairrific]

I not saying working out can cause male pattern baldness though I think it can elevate test. levels especially with the right supplements.

I am saying for me, I can take any herbs, the most likely ones are those that increase testosterone—raising your testosterone levels and feel it, I guess my body has always been sensitive in that way, and in that way I easily shot up my testosterone levels with various natural supplements (no not steroids) and I had the chiseled body but much to my surprise one day I saw a small bald spot and thinning hair.

I think I just found my limit and went a little over the edge to how much my hair could take. We know with time, and stress, dht can fluctuate at any age.

Like I said I don't think I have mph in a big way but I sure never ever thought I would be on a hair forum. I am feeling we have allot of 20 somethings on this forum....I feel it is not natural for your hair to thin when you reach 40, 50, 60, 70....(oh I know that's really old and by then it won't matter! :woot: )

My father, grandfathers all (had) full heads of hair there entire lives and no balding but with age it did thin in a natural way like "iwantperfection" was saying in his thread.

With that said, I think if my father and grandfather would have taken propecia they would have thicker heads of hair.

This screws the theory that it is perfectly natural to have thinner hair when you are older. I think most everyone is effect by dht at some point in time even if you don't have male pattern baldness, OK, except Regan.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I have addressed this topic before with Dr Proctor. He said that senescent thinning or senile alopecia which can start as early as your 30's is not considered male pattern baldness. The mechanisms are quite different. The hair thins but does not miniaturize and become vellus hairs like you have in male pattern baldness. Eventually, someone with male pattern baldness will have senile alopecia as well and I would assume that combination would show some real loss. In both cases your hair thins but in one case, you lose the hair and in the other case the hair thins, grays but regrows back again the same but does not miniaturize. Thin hair that may not be miniaturized( mostly gray hairs) have less pigment and are thinner in diameter and this will give the appearance of diffuse balding but you add some hair dye to that person and watch how they seem to have a full head of hair. If you want an example, look at women who dye their hair and as their natural color of gray starts to show, you will notice that hair looks thinner while the hairs still colored are thicker. I honestly think this guy in question has more age related thinning with loss of density. He may have some slight miniaturization but not enough to be considered aggressive male pattern baldness. When I get my hair professionally dyed, it gets at least 10 to 20% percent thicker so my density loss of 30 percent seems like 10 percent which as you all know is everyone's dream to have on here. I think this guy has lost some density but nothing to the point of aggressive male pattern baldness we have seen on cases on some of our posters. I have seen some elderly patients who are well over 75 years old and have thicker hair than me but have told me that they have thinned over the years. People with a full head of hair over 65 years old definitely always look younger but they will tell you their hair used to be even thicker when they were younger if you bring it up in conversation. However, they started out with thick course rugs, so now their hair still looks better than most of the posters on here. In my case, I started out with medium to fine hair, so as my hair gets thinner, it looks more diffusely thinner than someone who had thick course hair all their lives. So if you have thick course hair, consider yourself lucky but if you go bald, it seems to show more than someone who has fine to medium thick hair.

 

[follicle84]

I think his hair might of just gone thinner with age. I have read that everyones hair thins slightly with age regardless of whether they are balding or not. Its too early to tell at this stage.

 

[barcafan]

In hair terms Reagan was in like the top 0.1% of geneticly gifted guys. Baldness is baldness, loosing your hair ontop and looking BALD. Thinning happens to women too so I guess all women must have m.p.b then? :roll:

Well i guess we're using the term male pattern baldness too loosely.


Androgenetic alopecia. You happy now?

Old age does not cause hair thinning — just look at Ronald Reagan at the end of his life.

Hair thinning when you get older or maturing of the hairline is caused by Androgenetic Alopecia. Perhaps the reason it doesn't always progress completely is maybe there's a threshold that isn't surpassed to allow the balding to continue on.

This is not counting the 1% where it's stress/diet/trauma/etc.

Dr house, can you tell me the difference between 'thinning' hair and miniaturization? Do you know how these mechanisims differ, physiologically speaking?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, i genuinely want to know. I seriously think that any form of hair thinning is due to androgen sensitivity.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Age related thinning is due to the loss of collagen, keratocytes, and melanin at the level of the hair follicle. I have read it is more of an autoimmune response as well that differs somewhat with male pattern baldness which mainly DHT is responsible for the hair follicle to shrink and cause the hair to miniaturize to its final stage as a vellus hair. Age related hair becomes more brittle as you age and of course turns gray eventually and becomes thinner when it turns gray. However, it continues to shed and regrow a new gray hair that will not be miniaturized like male pattern baldness produces. The same things happen with the skin as it loses collagen and thins as you get older. As I mentioned before, if you dye your hair, it causes the hair to become thicker because it causes the hair shaft to swell with added color and it will rejuvenate the hair so it looks just like it looked before it turned gray. I am sure some people may have a combination of age related thinning and male pattern baldness. Clinton has a full head of hair but its alot thinner now because its gray. Clinton would not be considered to have male pattern baldness. If he dyes his hair, it will look totally thicker as if he has not signs of thinning. As the saying goes, people in their 40's have about a 40 percent chance of showing signs of THINNING. The question is whether the thinning is age related or from male pattern baldness. I guess that is where you need to have a miniaturization test. Men in their 50's will have a 50 percent chance of show signs of thinning. And as you age more, your percentage goes higher. I think thinning and balding are two words we kind of use interchangeably. I think people think, if you are thinning you must be balding. I really honestly feel balding is most obvious in people who are in their late teens to early twenties. You really get to see the male pattern baldness clearly when it starts early. The mature hairline is not considered to be male pattern baldness. Actually, according to the Norwood scale, if you are a NW2 or a NW1, you are not considered to have male pattern baldness starting. Its when you become a NW3 that you are labeled as having early male pattern baldness. So all you NW1 and NW2 have no business being here. Just kidding. In my case, I probably have more age related thinning than male pattern baldness so Propecia is not going to help too much in my case. However, from what I read, Copper peptides and Dr Proctor's Prox-n, Nano, and Proxiphen as well as Minoxidil will help age related thinning somewhat as well as taking supplements to boost the immune system. Who knows maybe the LLT helps too with age related thinning. I am sure if anything I said is wrong, Bryan will correct me. I am just going by what I have read on the internet. I have no idea if can be backed up with scientific studies. To be honest, if you really look at the guy's hair in the first photo at the beginning of this thread, considering his age and he does not show any gray hairs( unless he covers them up), I would say he may have enough miniaturization that could be considered male pattern baldness but he does not appear to be a NW3 yet so labeling him with male pattern baldness might be a little pre-mature at this time.

 

[barcafan]

But about the mature hairline. Why is it NOT male pattern baldness? (or at the very least, Androgenetic Alopecia). You see the hair Miniaturize at the corner of your hairline, then it completely dies off and dissapears, perhaps leaving only vellus hairs, it doesnt just 'thin' a little bit. Is that not the definition of male pattern baldness? Isn't temple hair just extremely sensitive to androgens, which is why it's the first to go?
I believe male pattern baldness is a made up word to describe "socially" visible hairloss, and since ~90% of whites get their mature hairline, it's almost expected/accepeted and doesnt deviate from the norm (infact, it IS the norm). But from a science point of view, its still male pattern baldness because the follicles end up dying. I'm not very articulate, but hopefully you see what im saying.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I think male pattern baldness is used to describe CONTINUOUS PROGRESSIVE hair loss due to the miniaturization process. When you go from a juvenile hairline to a mature hairline, its not a continuous progressive process of miniaturization. Miniaturization stops and the hair behind the mature hairline is NOT miniaturized. So in medical terms it would be considered normal and not male pattern baldness. However, I would agree with you when you say the mechanism is similar to what you see in male pattern baldness but its just not considered to be balding if it stops dead in its tracks but if you continue to miniaturize then doctors call that male pattern baldness. Its about what is normal versus not normal. That is how the medical field views things. If there is a difference in the end result, they are not considered to be the same thing. Its not normal for your hair to continuous miniaturize to the point it is no longer visible. So hence we use the term male pattern baldness. But if you manage to keep a full head of hair in your 40's, 50's and 60's and its grey and thinner, that would be considered NORMAL thinning but NOT male pattern baldness. Obviously two different mechanisms are going on because if there was just one, everyone would be bald and reach a NW7. We know that is not true since many men die with a full head of hair even past 80 years old.

 

[hairrific]

Our grandparents were told and believed that "it is normal to lose some of your teeth in your old age". And indeed they did lose they're teeth allot back then!

We now know IT IS NOT NORMAL, and through proper maintenance and sometimes medical intervention we can keep all our hair, I mean all our teeth in good shape for our entire lives. And I will add to that: ....no matter what our genetic make up is prone to.

So if it works for teeth....

 

[Thickandthin]

Listen, you guys would have a solid argument if we were discussing some 85 year old. We're not. The guy in question is like mid 30's. He's not thinning due to age. If he was, then by your logic he would have no hair at all in 10 years - not even a horseshoe.

He might not be thinning. But every other picture of the guy (presumably a few years old) on Google image search revealed him to have massively thick hair that would NOT show extreme thinning like that just because he put a little gel in it or because it was exposed to a flash.

Maybe he's sick or something. I don't know. Fact is, he's not thinning due to age - that's for f'n sure.

 

[hairrific]

His name is John Abraham and is an Indian supermodel/ actor. Was recently voted the sexiest guy in Asia and also named among the ten sexiest men in the world. He has always been know for his good hair ( like Beckham ) and that is the reason I am posting this pic here.

In the photo of question: That is not a flash, and observationally speaking that is not a full thick head of hair, because his hair shows as thin and sparse enough to easily see the scalp.

Sure, cosmetically it looks fine, but I can see how thin it is and what he should be asking himself at his young age is what will my hair look like in 5 to 10 years if I do nothing?

I would be concerned.

 

[Fundi]

He's 36 - I wouldn't say that's particulary young in terms of peak of looks.

 

[follicle84]

My step dad has hair like that, he is 45. He has been a bit thin for the past 5 years and hasnt really shown any real sign of hairloss. Its my belief that its down to age and genetics in this case. However i think hormones may cause some early thinning but not enough to go bald. Hence why some womens hair goes thin. The difference is if your older it is likelly to be much more prominant. I've read some where you dont know your going bald until you have lost 50% of your hair.