Zarev's presentation at the Global Hair Loss Summit 2020

[werefckd]

A lot.

If the hair transplant Doctor is bad, even small amounts of harvesting can destroy a donor

Lot's of things can go wrong during a FUE transplant, and that's why most doctors limit FUEs to small sessions. The higher the graft count you go, the risk of you making mistakes and losing hairs grows exponentially.

The more refined your technique and tools are, the more you can extract without making mistakes (or making less mistakes). For example if you damage 10% of the adjacent donor hairs it may not show in a 2k graft procedure, but that kind of % of damage in a 12k graft procedure would make a big dent on the scalp.

 

[werefckd]

You talk like it's binary: either the surgeon is a butcher or he is perfect. It's much more reasonable to assume that there is some variation of skill and technique between doctors, and that there are outliers.

Most hair transplant doctors (even the good ones) don't even do the extractions themselves, they leave that important part of the surgery to technicians. Dr. Zarev does the extractions himself. Who do you think is more skilled, the technicians or Dr. Zarev?

"I doubt there's any room for improvement"

So you believe the FUE technique is totally stagnant, that it stopped to evolve - stoped since when? It doesn't make any sense. Doctors are refining it every year, and it shows given the better results they are getting more recently.

"Most people have 8-10k grafts available that any skilled surgeon can harvest with no problem, and that's without going as far out as Dr. Zarev goes. There's nothing special about harvesting 9k grafts."

That is simply not true. Go do your research Pegasus, there are VERY few, if any doctors doing 9k+ FUE grafts other than Zarev.

Who are the other doctors doing 9K FUE restorations?

 

[whatintheworld]

@werefckd I have only seen certain results from Turkey at those high graft numbers (some good but mostly bad results), and Dr. Lorenzo in Spain (good results).

Hasson and Wong do 5000+ FUE sessions, and they have had good results on the other forum in those situations.

 

[werefckd]

@werefckd I have only seen certain results from Turkey at those high graft numbers (some good but mostly bad results), and Dr. Lorenzo in Spain (good results).

Hasson and Wong do 5000+ FUE sessions, and they have had good results on the other forum in those situations.

5000+ FUE yes (more recently, as 5 years ago it was considered blasphemy)

But 9000+ FUE? No, not even today.

 

[coolio]

You're talking about butchers. Any good FUE surgeon can harvest follicles with minimal scarring, and without any damage to surrounding follicles. I doubt there's any room for improvement. We've seen this song and dance before about secret techniques. Most people have 8-10k grafts available that any skilled surgeon can harvest with no problem, and that's without going as far out as Dr. Zarev goes. There's nothing special about harvesting 9k grafts

The "same old song and dance" is the myth that a Doctor's best few dozen showoff cases are representative of their average result. That was never true in the past and it still isn't true now.

 

[werefckd]

There is no twisting. You said "There's nothing special about harvesting 9k grafts." Then I asked you to show me another doctor FUE harvesting 9K grafts and you backed out. Simple as that. Harvesting 9k grafts via FUE is freaking rare and special. Most doctors don't want to go above 4k. The ones that push it to the limit don't go beyond 6k or 7k, and they are very rare. 9K+ via FUE is only Zarev that I know of.

 

[werefckd]

The "same old song and dance" is the myth that a Doctor's best few dozen showoff cases are representative of their average result. That was never true in the past and it still isn't true now.

Let's not get fooled. Those are simply the best (size wise and quality) hair transplant results ever posted on the internet. There is nothing average about that. But it serves to showcase the level of skill, talent and why not tools that Dr. Zarev has -- as no other FUE doctor is doing restorations of that magnitude, not even close.

And no need to take my word from it, a random forum poster. Other hair transplant doctors said the same thing about him.

 

[Selb]

For me, I think it’s reasonable to assume that because his process is very secretive and we have very few patients of his on forums, that his results shouldn’t be taken seriously yet. Otherwise, it’s like staking your hope on hair cloning or stem cells or whatever’s the next big thing. Be cautious and optimistic.

 

[werefckd]

For me, I think it’s reasonable to assume that because his process is very secretive and we have very few patients of his on forums, that his results shouldn’t be taken seriously yet. Otherwise, it’s like staking your hope on hair cloning or stem cells or whatever’s the next big thing. Be cautious and optimistic.

He is not being very secretive. Did you read the title of this thread? haha

 

[Selb]

He is not being very secretive. Did you read the title of this thread? haha

He’s been doing this for how long now? Why wait until now to reveal these crazy new techniques? I have a feeling it won’t be anything new, or it won’t show the exact mechanism enabling him to have success. Like I said, cautiously optimistic. Weren’t you one of the ones hounding Tsuji for their problems?

 

[werefckd]

He’s been doing this for how long now? Why wait until now to reveal these crazy new techniques? I have a feeling it won’t be anything new, or it won’t show the exact mechanism enabling him to have success. Like I said, cautiously optimistic. Weren’t you one of the ones hounding Tsuji for their problems?

Don't think it's a crazy new technique. Maybe an improvement, a considerable refinement. But I'm not sure, we are just guessing here. He claims to have a better extracting tool. Because of his results (many pictures, videos posted, live presentations) I think it is believable, and would like to look more into it. That's it. You guy think he is lying, that is OK too. That's why I would like to investigate more into it.

 

[werefckd]

Are you kidding me? Put it in context with my other statement and I obviously did not mean in one session. You'd have to be an idiot to do a 9k graft mega session with anyone, including Zarev. I wouldn't trust it even if it works out for some of his patients.

This is nuts. It's obvious that it's not in one session. Not even Zarev does 9k in one session, not even close, so it's obvious it's not in one session.

You said harvesting 9K (FUE, total) is nothing special. Where are the cases of patients (other than Zarev's) having 9k grafts extracted via FUE (total) then?

 

[werefckd]

Regarding my position on Tsuji - I gave him the benefit of the doubt and cheered for him for 4 years, but when it became obvious it wasn't the case I couldn't ignore it and be in denial.

So I don't see any problem in giving Zarev the benefit of the doubt as well when he says he improved his FUE technique beyond the industry standards. He has the results to back it, his 12k graft restorations are AT LEAST DOUBLE the size of the biggest restorations the other world class doctors are performing, and other hair transplant doctors respect him.

But I agree we should remain skeptical, that's why, for example, I was willing to put money in to the conference I mentioned in the original post of this thread and investigate his presentations at the event.

To sum up my position on Zarev: I think what he is going is very interesting, let's investigate it more.

 

[coolio]

I basically agree. IMO a lot of his results are from existing stuff. Great candidate patients + raiding outside the safe zone.

But he also appears to be getting a lot of grafts/survival for the amount of damage/loss in the donor area.

For many years I have suspected that the whole transplant industry probably loses more grafts than they admit to. Even the best docs. Zarev may have made some progress in that area. Too early to tell. If his method is something tangibly improved then other docs should be able to use it too.

 

[werefckd]

I basically agree. IMO a lot of his results are from existing stuff. Great candidate patients + raiding outside the safe zone.

But he also appears to be getting a lot of grafts/survival for the amount of damage/loss in the donor area.

For many years I have suspected that the whole transplant industry probably loses more grafts than they admit to. Even the best docs. Zarev may have made some progress in that area. Too early to tell. If his method is something tangibly improved then other docs should be able to use it too.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

 

[werefckd]

Another interesting part of the Zarev puzzle is that he does all the important parts of the procedure himself, including extractions.

All the other doctors doing big FUE sessions (which are still much smaller than Zarev's) don't do the extraction or the implanting themselves, leaving at least one big part of the surgery for technicians. Zarev does the extractions AND the implants. Double the work. Exponentially harder.

Considering that, it's impossible to do the size of the sessions he does with quality relying only talent and sheer power IMO. There are doctors reporting getting exhausted with FUE sessions smaller than 1k grafts. It has to be something related with his technique and tools as well.

 

[coolio]

What kind of prices does he charge compared to the rest of the FUE world? I haven't paid attention to (anyone's) pricing in a while. If his workload is a lot higher then you would expect his prices to reflect it.


The transplanting process probably causes some new hairs to form just because of all the scalp injuries.
Would it cause a lot of new hairs? No. But it probably causes a few.

For years I have wondered if that phenomenon is masking the fact that even the best doctors are losing a percentage of the grafts. It's all just theory but it makes sense IMO.

 

[MeDK]

Another interesting part of the Zarev puzzle is that he does all the important parts of the procedure himself, including extractions.

All the other doctors doing big FUE sessions (which are still much smaller than Zarev's) don't do the extraction or the implanting themselves, leaving at least one big part of the surgery for technicians. Zarev does the extractions AND the implants. Double the work. Exponentially harder.

Considering that, it's impossible to do the size of the sessions he does with quality relying only talent and sheer power IMO. There are doctors reporting getting exhausted with FUE sessions smaller than 1k grafts. It has to be something related with his technique and tools as well.

View attachment 152419

I don't know if its a "stamp of quality" if someone does it all by hand?

We know the longer time the follicles are outside the scalp, the lower the chance is for follicle survival.

Shouldn't it be more relevant to know if they can do it fast with good survival rate and coverage?

If something is done by hand, we know that the quality will be lower and lower over time and repetition, here it is a great advantage that machines can cover the repetitious work, and maybe do the "detailing" by hand.

But okay i'm not in for transplantations. My experience with doctors isn't the greatest I have to admit, and no one can make a guarantee how you will be scaring, and with a massive invasive procedure like hair transplants I know for my self its a no go, and the obvious that you still need to be on medication afterwards.

 

[werefckd]

What kind of prices does he charge compared to the rest of the FUE world? I haven't paid attention to (anyone's) pricing in a while. If his workload is a lot higher then you would expect his prices to reflect it.


The transplanting process probably causes some new hairs to form just because of all the scalp injuries.
Would it cause a lot of new hairs? No. But it probably causes a few.

For years I have wondered if that phenomenon is masking the fact that even the best doctors are losing a percentage of the grafts. It's all just theory but it makes sense IMO.

He charges 4 euros per graft. You can compare with the table I posted in my previous comment. It's around middle of the range for Europe.

 

[werefckd]

It's not uncommon. This guy had over 10k grafts

6 minutes of the guy babling about dates and girls, very little about his procedure.

How many grafts did he had?
Was it FUT or FUE?
Who performed it?