32yo Male Receeding Hairline And Thinning, Starting Natural Experiment

[Dazz_nz]

So a bit more explaination on some things for those who do decide to follow on how I go...
My goal is to potentially gain more volume/regrow more through my current hair area and awaken dormant hair (hence why I will be posting extreme closeups soon so I can monitor the dormant hairs) not grow my hairline forward like it used to be when I was young as thats just dreaming (but if that happens then that would be awesome lol). Realistically out of the majority people, we dont live the healthiest lives that we can. Diet plays the biggest role in human health and now days food is too easy to get in your mouth within 5 minutes due to fast food and processed crap that most people have in their fridge etc because half the time people cant be bothered or dont have time to cook everything themselves from the best possible food sources. Im not saying diet alone will reverse hairloss but and I know that genetics does play a role in things too, but its the other things im adding to this that have been said to regrow hair that I will be pretty much testing, but at the same time be on the best possible diet I could be on which I have completely planned based on RDI but more on that below....

For instance the video below is a good video regards diet (which im sure most people will have seen already if youve been on youtube searching)... Im definately not interested in a completely raw food diet, and wether his hair did infact grow back (as you cant be sure since his hair is long now) I do believe that its somewhat legit what he is saying but may not work for everyone. And of course he said he healed himself so that shows how big of a role diet plays in things and what you can do by including certain foods into your diet depending on your goal.

Along with the diet change ive also incorporated things that have been reported to been extremely good for hair growth. Of course theres all sorts of crap out there and theres probably even a video or something out there that rubbing your own crap through your hair grows it back because for some reason people will believe anything. So im taking the ones that are most said to work that I find have the most evidence, so if they dont work then ill know its a load of crap and this will then just be another testimonial to people to say not to waste their time. As I have nothing to gain by documenting it.

Supplements/Products - and reasons for trying:
Im not going to go into full detail on these as people can easily google them to find out more.
Pumpkin Seed Oil
Theres alot of talk about this, lots of videos and articles and an actual study It has an effect on DHT. Also about eating pumpkin seeds. As said in first post im having 20ml daily of this (I just put it into my protein shakes and it just adds a nutty taste), I have 10ml morning and night. I also just massage a small amount at the scalp as I dont want grease all over the pillow lol so I do that at night so I can wash out in the morning.
There was a study done on supplementing with PSO:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017725/
This was of course a supplement that contained other natural things aswell but the main component was the pumpkin seed oil, like I said im not going to go into depth of everything ive read if people want to read more about things then search for them, as theres lots of interesting things about it.

Biotin
Again I dont really need to say much about this because theres so many articles about it, and endless videos on youtube in which people talk alot of rubbish that I dont nessarily believe - but there is some scientific stuff to potentially support it aswell. Ive only ever seen a couple of before and after pics that showed a mega difference to me regards thinning so theres not heaps of evidence, but I think that taking it will benefit the whole thing since its apparantly so good for hair.

BS Molasses
This isnt a major component in the test as regardless of it I would always take it due to whats in it and how good it is if you are lacking certain nutrients in your diet - there are quite a few but to name a couple, 2 tsp has 15% of your iron intake and 20% of your calcium intake, 10% magnesium and others too (just look at label) and it also contains copper - although from my reading some brands dont. But I emailed the company of the brand I got (from the supermarket) and asked if it contained it and they confirmed it didnt. As some brands dont show all of the minerals on the back and of course too much copper is toxic, but it is good for hair. And also people have reported in numerous articles and a few videos that it can potentially darken hair and darken grey hairs. I dont really have greys in the top moreso a few on the sides but arent really noticeable since I keep the sides short. But ill be able to see if thats true or false at the same time.
Again, if anyone is interested in the benefits of it then just google it.

Nioxin Shampoo + Conditioner (number 2)
They do not claim that their product will regrow hair, I am simply using it as they have a really good track record in reviews about maintaining hair and it being really healthy and appear fuller. And they say its extremely effective at breaking down Sebum. It doesnt claim to block DHT in any way or stimulate growth. I use it once a day and its cheap enough as it lasts ages.
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There are various other things im doing such as scalp massage as increases circulation. But its all just general stuff we should be doing anyway. Another good video...

Im sure a few people will have seen this. I dont want to take Saw Palmetto but his other points are interesting.

Diet
Im not going to go fully into what im eating just some basic components, as people can search for this themselves and my calorie intake will be different to someone elses, and im monitoring my macros which most people dont have time for - although its pretty easy once you know the basics info about the foods you eat.
I highly recommend this website - which is free
http://www.whfoods.com/
Got good info on all nutrients on foods so if you are trying to meet your RDIs for all your minerals then this is a good guide. As realistically we should be getting everything out of our diets and not have to take anything like multivitamins as getting from natural sources is always better.
My diet is very simple and is pretty much the same each day except for how proteins are prepared otherwise its just boring.
Main Carb sources are - Oats, Brown/Red/Black Rice and Sweet Potato
I alternate Sweet Potato and Rice daily as Sweet Potato has a huge amount of beta carotine in it, which is really good for skin and hair, but exceeding your daily dosage everyday for a long period can result in more hairloss and sometimes carotenosis.
Main Protein I eat is chicken and fish, im not a huge red meat fan, except for lamb... and I live in a rural area with a good butcher and NZ lamb is too good to pass up lol.
Lots of green vegetables, and fruit. I like juicing as you can get a good intake and regardless of what people say, refined sugar and fruit sugar are not created equal. I avoid too much carrots included due to the high beta carotine content as I am already eating sweet potatoes.
Incorporating things like eating blueberries daily (they are cheap if brought frozen) and other things that are high in antioxidants.
Increased water intake, 3l a day. Cut out sugar and other crap.
Limited dairy products, I only use a small amount of milk. No butter, cheese, cream etc
There are alot of foods that can help block DHT, so its to incorporate that into the diet aswell.

But overall I dont really need to go into all of that. IMO people that are really serious about their hair regardless of the situation/genetics should look at their diet/lifestyle first and get that in check to some degree before worrying about the treatment, because regardless of what you do, to support the product/method to its full degree your body needs to be running properly.
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My situation will also be different to others aswell as I the reason im measuring macros is I am trying to do a clean bulk at the same time so I have to have an extra 500cals a day to gain. I do a 3-2 split, and this will of course increase testosterone which in turn could result in more conversion to DHT, but im hoping it wont effect things majorly since everything else will be in check.
There is one thing I can confirm though and that is that Creatine does cause an increase in DHT because the times I did use it I had alot of hairfall so thats one thing I dont touch.

So Overall...
I am not saying this will work. But I am trying it, because regardless of the outcome in 6 months, this story will be another testimonial to people of what to avoid and what to try because there is so much out there including weird things like rubbing onion juice on your head etc (I would never try that!) and alot of the time noones got the full proof to back it up or its a guy with a perfect head of hair with no old photos to prove anything. And im just an average person with nothing to gain from this appart from confirm or debunk a few things.

So to those that havent fallen asleep by now. I wont be posting alot along the way. I will be getting photos (close up) on all areas of the scalp to show the small hairs you cant see with the eye and to monitor the hair I have/regrowth etc. Im getting the first lot on Friday so will post when I have them which will be classed as before.

I will continue to get them taken and post as I go along, probably once a month, but I think ive blabbed enough about things now so will just see how it goes...If this works out successful with new regrowth or no loss after 6 months then I will continue to document it for another 6 months after that.

 

[Hangin'on Hair]

Cool! I'll be watching this.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

@Dazz_nz,

Some people's hair loss stops naturally. Further if you're going by youtube there are claims for everything, including the laser comb stopping hair loss, and alien abductions.

The issue with these natural treatments -- which may work in my opinion -- is that the clinical research is of very poor quality. Companies can't patent cayenne powder shampoo. As such the trials will always be of short duration, with a small number of subjects, and they probably won't bother publishing the null results and negative results. Do you notice how there are a lot more claims about pistachio oil or whatever helping hair loss rather than the other way around? Why do you think that is? It's because of publication bias.

I think it's likely that food/health/sleep etc can contribute to a better progression for male pattern baldness in many individuals. There's a study of identical twins for example showing that lifestyle and male pattern baldness progression are correlated. However, by engaging in this endeavour you are engaging in high-risk activity, as the signal-to-noise from natural therapies research is dismally low.

http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsu...=2013&issue=05000&article=00041&type=abstract

Increased smoking duration (p < 0.001) and the presence of dandruff (p = 0.028) were significantly associated with increased frontal hair loss. Increased exercise duration (p = 0.002), consumption of more than four alcoholic drinks per week (p = 0.042), and increased money spent on hair loss products (p = 0.050) were all associated with increased temporal hair loss. Daily hat use (p = 0.050), higher body mass index (p = 0.012), and higher testosterone levels (p = 0.040) were associated with decreased temporal hair loss. Factors that were significantly associated with increased vertex hair loss included abstinence from alcohol consumption (p = 0.030), consumption of more than four alcoholic drinks per week (p= 0.004), increased smoking duration (p = 0.047), increased exercise duration (p = 0.050), and increased stress duration (p = 0.010). Lower body mass index, more children, increased caffeine consumption, history of skin disease, and abstinence from alcohol were significantly associated with increased hair thinning scores (p < 0.05).

It is also known that hair loss is associated with heart disease, with insulin resistance, and with low serum levels of sex hormone binding globulin. I'm not sure if these three variables are distinct from one another though.

ETA: Just to be clear, though I preach caution, my actions include a natural regime. Yesterday I dissolved some peppermint oil into my bottle of nizoral shampoo and my bottle of Tea Tree oil conditioner, and I may add lavender, ginger, rosemary, cayenne, etc in the future. I am also doing intermittent fasting, that is mostly for weight loss (ok, entirely for weight loss really), but I am hopeful for benefits in terms of my hair quality and my memory.

 

[michel sapin]

stachu, how do you reduced your unwanted facial hair with minoxidil ? Do you still rubb the miox or just let it soak?

 

[stachu]

Just take a practice. Try to not rub all minoxidil dose in one take. Just dont let minoxidil rush throught your forehead. And yes. - i was shaving unwanted hairs mostly above eyebrows.

 

[Dazz_nz]

@Dazz_nz,

Some people's hair loss stops naturally. Further if you're going by youtube there are claims for everything, including the laser comb stopping hair loss, and alien abductions.

The issue with these natural treatments -- which may work in my opinion -- is that the clinical research is of very poor quality. Companies can't patent cayenne powder shampoo. As such the trials will always be of short duration, with a small number of subjects, and they probably won't bother publishing the null results and negative results. Do you notice how there are a lot more claims about pistachio oil or whatever helping hair loss rather than the other way around? Why do you think that is? It's because of publication bias.

I think it's likely that food/health/sleep etc can contribute to a better progression for male pattern baldness in many individuals. There's a study of identical twins for example showing that lifestyle and male pattern baldness progression are correlated. However, by engaging in this endeavour you are engaging in high-risk activity, as the signal-to-noise from natural therapies research is dismally low.

http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsu...=2013&issue=05000&article=00041&type=abstract



It is also known that hair loss is associated with heart disease, with insulin resistance, and with low serum levels of sex hormone binding globulin. I'm not sure if these three variables are distinct from one another though.

ETA: Just to be clear, though I preach caution, my actions include a natural regime. Yesterday I dissolved some peppermint oil into my bottle of nizoral shampoo and my bottle of Tea Tree oil conditioner, and I may add lavender, ginger, rosemary, cayenne, etc in the future. I am also doing intermittent fasting, that is mostly for weight loss (ok, entirely for weight loss really), but I am hopeful for benefits in terms of my hair quality and my memory.

I agree about youtube - the amount of preaching about products and no real results and no scientific evidence its hard to know what to believe. Ive just sorta picked out the things that I could find good info on and trialing them to see how I go. I think along side a good diet these things could potentially work, maybe not in everyones case as genetics does play a big role in things. In some ways Im lucky this is only really starting to happen to me in my 30's and that I havent had to deal with it at a young age like some people do.
But fingers crossed I get some good results for it. Its time for me to wake up anyway and look at my lifestyle as Im not getting any younger and things start to degrade when you get past 30 in my experience! So regardless of results I'll end up a healthier person at the end anyway.

I just read that abstract you linked - Did I read it wrong in it saying that NOT consuming alcohol contributed to more hairloss? I dont drink at all nowadays - well maybe once or twice a year if I feel the need to... TBH most of my youth was consumed by excess weed smoking lol maybe that was the reason this is only starting now as its said that MJ reduces DHT lol

 

[Dazz_nz]

Just take a practice. Try to not rub all minoxidil dose in one take. Just dont let minoxidil rush throught your forehead. And yes. - i was shaving unwanted hairs mostly above eyebrows.

Did you have any other noticeable side effects except the unwanted hair?

 

[GoldenMane]

Dude, people lead crappy lifestyles and have full heads of hair

90% of the junkies and homeless people I've seen have great hair. The rest are old. Never see a young, balding homeless junkie.

Shane McGowan is living proof that you can treat your body like a toilet and still have good hair into your old age.

 

[Dazz_nz]

90% of the junkies and homeless people I've seen have great hair. The rest are old. Never see a young, balding homeless junkie.

Shane McGowan is living proof that you can treat your body like a toilet and still have good hair into your old age.

Yes, maybe. But everyone is different. As stated in most of my posts, this is an experiment and if it works then great, if not then ive debunked several things that have been said to effect hairloss and regrowth (well for me anyway). Everyone reacts to things differently, everyone has different genetics. There are also people who smoke til age 90 and never get cancer but that doesnt prove that smoking does not cause cancer.
And also if you have read all my posts you will see that im not expecting diet alone to change things, it is simply better to try the other natural things while on a perfect diet. Otherwise there would be no point in trying the other methods as if my body isnt functioning at 100% performance then I cant expect the supplements to work at their best.
But as Ive said before - and dont take this the wrong way, but maybe people should hold off on their negative comments about this sort of thing (not saying you are being overly negative but im more meaning disagreeing that what im doing will work) because at the end of the day my results (photos) will speak louder than any words. And like I said, if it doesnt work then fine, at least I tried. And I cant really be bothered replying to all negative comments trying to justify what im doing, I would prefer to keep my thread clean documenting what im doing except for comments from people with useful information for others if they have tried natural things that work. Thanks.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I agree about youtube - the amount of preaching about products and no real results and no scientific evidence its hard to know what to believe. Ive just sorta picked out the things that I could find good info on and trialing them to see how I go. I think along side a good diet these things could potentially work, maybe not in everyones case as genetics does play a big role in things. In some ways Im lucky this is only really starting to happen to me in my 30's and that I havent had to deal with it at a young age like some people do.
But fingers crossed I get some good results for it. Its time for me to wake up anyway and look at my lifestyle as Im not getting any younger and things start to degrade when you get past 30 in my experience! So regardless of results I'll end up a healthier person at the end anyway.

I just read that abstract you linked - Did I read it wrong in it saying that NOT consuming alcohol contributed to more hairloss? I dont drink at all nowadays - well maybe once or twice a year if I feel the need to... TBH most of my youth was consumed by excess weed smoking lol maybe that was the reason this is only starting now as its said that MJ reduces DHT lol

Yup, both zero alcohol and excess alcohol had a detrimental effect on hair in that twin study.

 

[Hangin'on Hair]

Yup, both zero alcohol and excess alcohol had a detrimental effect on hair in that twin study.

Do you think the reason is because that alcohol lowers testosterone.???

 

[stachu]

Dark circles under eyes. But it was due to going to bed and wiping wet minoxidil hairs to the pillow. For now. I am not noticing any side effects.

 

[Giiizmo]

I believe pumpkin seeds gave me side effects similar to finasteride, so just be mindful of that. I'll make a more thorough post about it at some point.

I used to take a small handful everyday, thinking "what's the harm?". I started back in November 2015. More than seven months later, I've been having some weird side effects that, when I thought about it, mimicked some of those from finasteride - watery semen, brain fog and loss of libido. I had attributed it to an ongoing bout of depression but just in case there was more than that, I stopped taking the seeds. I think the first emotion I felt again was rage about a week later, something I had not felt in many months. Then my sex drive slowly went up and I've been experiencing morning erections again. My anxiety got better, too. I've still got runny semen, though. Oh, and the male pattern baldness itch came back again, too, even though I had forgotten about this garbage.

Mind you, I have no idea if it's the seeds that did all of that but I'm not risking eating that stuff again. To note: I'm still depressed from being in a shitty situation and haven't otherwise changed anything else so whatever improvement I think I'm feeling doesn't come from my condition getting better. Also, I'm a very lean and somewhat featherweight guy and most drugs affect me pretty strongly so maybe there's something to that as well (e.g. a normal dose of opiates can send me into respiratory failure).

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Do you think the reason is because that alcohol lowers testosterone.???

I don't know, but in general moderate alcohol consumption seems to be goo for you, approximately 4 servings/week.

 

[Dazz_nz]

Ok so I had some photos done today... But im going to have to rethink how I do this to measure it properly as these just look like a mess really lol. I will also take some normal photos aswell but ill post these in the meantime. The 2 denser pics are taken from the top near the font of my head (A008 and A007) as mentioned my hair has thinned out through the top alot. All others are taken at the hairline along one side of the hairline in the receeding area. Will probably redo these as we were in a bit of a hurry as she was due for a client to come in. So ill post others (normal ones) when I get some time this weekend.
However she did say to me I have some new regrowth coming in along the hairline (since my last haircut) but it is grey hair - which I suppose is better than nothing lol
So at the moment these dont really say jack... but will rethink how im going to measure this properly. But we have planned to take the pics along the same side of my receeded part and in the same place on the top as I go. So if the density changes greatly over the next while it will be prettty obvious. Will post other normal photos soon, but its too good of a day today so im off outside for the rest of the day.
The new hairs are since my last haircut which was a month ago, ive been using PSO for coming on 3 weeks now so imo the new growth would be because of that as I havent been doing everything else for the same period of time. But will update soon with new pics showing hairline as a whole.

 

[Dazz_nz]

I believe pumpkin seeds gave me side effects similar to finasteride, so just be mindful of that. I'll make a more thorough post about it at some point.

I used to take a small handful everyday, thinking "what's the harm?". I started back in November 2015. More than seven months later, I've been having some weird side effects that, when I thought about it, mimicked some of those from finasteride - watery semen, brain fog and loss of libido. I had attributed it to an ongoing bout of depression but just in case there was more than that, I stopped taking the seeds. I think the first emotion I felt again was rage about a week later, something I had not felt in many months. Then my sex drive slowly went up and I've been experiencing morning erections again. My anxiety got better, too. I've still got runny semen, though. Oh, and the male pattern baldness itch came back again, too, even though I had forgotten about this garbage.

Mind you, I have no idea if it's the seeds that did all of that but I'm not risking eating that stuff again. To note: I'm still depressed from being in a shitty situation and haven't otherwise changed anything else so whatever improvement I think I'm feeling doesn't come from my condition getting better. Also, I'm a very lean and somewhat featherweight guy and most drugs affect me pretty strongly so maybe there's something to that as well (e.g. a normal dose of opiates can send me into respiratory failure).

I cant eat pumpkin seeds, as I dont like the taste. Ive been taking the oil. And have been massaging it into the thinning areas at night before bed also. I havent noticed any negative side effects YET (touch wood lol) appart from that my skin looks nicer. And although it can be easier said than done sometimes depending on a persons situations but I think you have to try change your mindset and outlook and try to minimise stress as depression in turn causes stress on the body which from what ive read can lead to more hairloss. I myself got pretty depressed about the amount I was losing and I was thinking about it all the time, moreso thinking what am I going to look like in 6 months if this keeps falling like it is. But ive just learnt to deal with it and try to forget about it and focus more on the positive aspects of my life rather than dwelling on things that I dont have full control over. I know that everyones different but i have suffered quite a bit in the past from depression over other things and ive found the best way for me to deal with it was to eat better and exercise regularly. It really does help alot.

 

[whatevr]

What's going to happen is that you'll keep mucking around with useless treatments until you hit like NW2.5 and realize that sh*t has hit the fan.
Then you will start taking Finasteride. In practice you should just do that right now.

Been there and done that.

 

[Dazz_nz]

What's going to happen is that you'll keep mucking around with useless treatments until you hit like NW2.5 and realize that sh*t has hit the fan.
Then you will start taking Finasteride. In practice you should just do that right now.

Been there and done that.

Yet another person who cant read lol, this is the internet so i guess thats to be expected.
No I wont be on it at all. As said several times, if this doesnt work I dont care. Life doesnt end when your hair falls out. Sure it would be nice to keep it but it doesnt define me or stop me from doing anything if I have it or not. At the end of the day im going to end up shrivelled up like a prune and 6 feet under so im not gonna stress over something silly like this.
But by nature im always interested in investigating things for myself and this just happens to be a topic I chose to do an experiment with because I started losing more hair. Trying things that are said to work and at the same time cleaning up my lifestyle as I just happened to be starting again with bulking up so it was the perfect time to adjust my diet too. Posting this does me no benefit. I simply thought some people might be interested in a real person trying out all the things people rave on about working and having another testimonial from someone to say wether to bother with it or not.
But that will be the last pointless comment I'll reply to. Im pretty sure ive explained what the point of this is enough.

 

[Hangin'on Hair]

Yet another person who cant read lol, this is the internet so i guess thats to be expected.
No I wont be on it at all. As said several times, if this doesnt work I dont care. Life doesnt end when your hair falls out. Sure it would be nice to keep it but it doesnt define me or stop me from doing anything if I have it or not. At the end of the day im going to end up shrivelled up like a prune and 6 feet under so im not gonna stress over something silly like this.
But by nature im always interested in investigating things for myself and this just happens to be a topic I chose to do an experiment with because I started losing more hair. Trying things that are said to work and at the same time cleaning up my lifestyle as I just happened to be starting again with bulking up so it was the perfect time to adjust my diet too. Posting this does me no benefit. I simply thought some people might be interested in a real person trying out all the things people rave on about working and having another testimonial from someone to say wether to bother with it or not.
But that will be the last pointless comment I'll reply to. Im pretty sure ive explained what the point of this is enough.

Wow. A whole lot of negativity around these parts eh Dazz.

Maybe the name of this site should be changed to Finasteride talk. I'm thinking all methods should be looked into. Scientifically proven or not. Everyone will respond differently. Something natural might work for one person but not the next. Keep going.

 

[kj6723]

Yet another person who cant read lol, this is the internet so i guess thats to be expected.
No I wont be on it at all. As said several times, if this doesnt work I dont care. Life doesnt end when your hair falls out. Sure it would be nice to keep it but it doesnt define me or stop me from doing anything if I have it or not. At the end of the day im going to end up shrivelled up like a prune and 6 feet under so im not gonna stress over something silly like this.
But by nature im always interested in investigating things for myself and this just happens to be a topic I chose to do an experiment with because I started losing more hair. Trying things that are said to work and at the same time cleaning up my lifestyle as I just happened to be starting again with bulking up so it was the perfect time to adjust my diet too. Posting this does me no benefit. I simply thought some people might be interested in a real person trying out all the things people rave on about working and having another testimonial from someone to say wether to bother with it or not.
But that will be the last pointless comment I'll reply to. Im pretty sure ive explained what the point of this is enough.

I'm not sure what kind of reaction you expected by posting. Most people on here take male pattern baldness very, very seriously, so when someone comes on posting about a regimen reliant on natural remedies that have little to no convincing evidence at this point instead of treatments that are proven to work for most people, of course it's going to russell up some jimmies.

Honestly, if this works out I'll be super happy for you. It would be a huge break through for male pattern baldness, but understand that the people trying to discourage you from this are actually trying to point you in what they believe is the right direction