Accutane a cure

[Innermind]

Bryan " Why do you suppose that castrated men produce only about 1/10 the sebum of normal men? Come on, Hoppi, use your head! "

Where is the source of this? Please post link or cite study. Thank you.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan " Why do you suppose that castrated men produce only about 1/10 the sebum of normal men? Come on, Hoppi, use your head! "

Where is the source of this? Please post link or cite study. Thank you.

Oops, I screwed-up on that number! The correct number for the amount of sebum produced by castrated people would be about 40% of normal men, not the 10% I said in that previous post. That's from: "Effect of Castration in Adolescent and Young Adult Males Upon Further Changes in the Proportions of Bare and Hairy Scalp", James B. Hamilton, Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, October, 1960. Volume 20, Number 10. They made the following measurements in castrated and normal individuals, just to prove that castration had had a significant and long-lasting antiandrogenic effect on those individuals:

Beard (mg. grown per 24 hours)
Castrated: 2.3
Intact: 22.7

Axillary hair (mg. grown per 24 hours)
Castrated: 0.14
Intact: 0.81

Sebum, area covered by monomolecular film (sq. cm.)
Castrated: 3.5
Intact: 8.7

As you can see, I was obviously thinking of the difference in the amount of beard hair grown by these individuals, which is a lot closer to that 1/10 figure than the difference in the amount of sebum (okay, so it's been a long time since I last read that study). The difference in beard growth must have made an impression on me at the time!

By the way, all that would seem to agree with what Kligman said in that later study I referred to in another thread; his explanation for why giving as much as 300 mg/day of methyl testosterone to healthy young men had no effect on sebum production was that their sebum production was already maxed-out, even by normal levels of testosterone. In other words, reducing testosterone (like with castration) would certainly reduce sebum, but not as much as you would expect!

 

[armandein]

Hello Bryan;

Interesting study of Kligman,

Do you know how much patients and controls were measured?
It is possible read the full publication?

Armando

 

[Nuli]

I'm coming up on my second month of accutane at 40mg ED. I kinda expected some increase shedding but its actually quite the opposite. I have less shedding than before and my hair is starting to look thicker. I am only using minoxidil for fighting hair loss atm. The downside is im also have having some ball ache, like i did when i was on finasteride.

I read a study that accutane is also a 5-ar inhibitor, does anyone know if there is truth to this? Could explain why my hair is getting thicker.

 

[Bryan]

Interesting study of Kligman,

Do you know how much patients and controls were measured?

I'm not sure what you mean.

It is possible read the full publication?

I seriously doubt that it's available online. I can give you the full citation to it, if you have access to a medical library.

 

[PepperJack]

Squeegee man I heard an amazing thing about all of this, it may well not be new to you but.. it makes a lot of sense so I wanted to tell you! Here is what ma duuuude Immortal said about all this (sebum):

"Hoppipolla - When blood sugar levels are low, due to high insulin clearing glucose levels from the blood, liver and so forth, the adrenal glands are stimulated to increase adrogens, and at the same time, the body is urged to replenish its supply of glucose, so when glucose levels raise again with the consumption of food, the eventual high glucose level will increase IGF-1, which will increase sebum, and the cycle repeats.

For a more exact explanation you can check this PDF file out:

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Fi ... rticle.pdf "


So, why did I get oily scalp, then dandruff? Because! I got my insulin too high which pushed my IGF-1 too high (plus I was eating a ton of soy and drinking too much milk lol), which increased my sebum which caught more DHT (which may have been high due to me squishing my T levels with insulin/cortisol), which made more sebum, and then I now probably have some very mild fungal infection on the sebum which has given me mild dandruff ._. (very, very common amongst MPBers I think).

I believe the solution is to remove the fungal activity and dandruff, reduce inflammation, reduce sebum and possibly shrink the sebaceous glands (I am not sure if the enlarging of them is merely permanent or continues for a while.

Phew! Man I'm gonna get some sleep lol

Hoppi--Just bought top supps recommended by Brian (Simonis) today and am changing my diet. Thanks a million for post with the excerpt from Immortal--don't think I would have ever stumbled upon this myself.

 

[armandein]

Interesting study of Kligman,

Do you know how much patients and controls were measured?

I'm not sure what you mean.

It is possible read the full publication?

I seriously doubt that it's available online. I can give you the full citation to it, if you have access to a medical library.

Bryan

My question is how many persons were tested in the study?

Please, give us the full citation

TIA
Armando

 

[Bryan]

Bryan

My question is how many persons were tested in the study?

Well, there were several different tests that were done in that study, and on a variety of age groups. You should read the whole thing yourself, because it's too complicated to summarize here.

In a series of tests done on giving systemic (oral) androgens, there were 14 prepubertal children, 8 boys and 6 girls; 6 adult males; 8 adult females; and 3 elderly females.

There were also tests that involved giving oral estrogen, and also tests that involved the topical application of those drugs.

Please, give us the full citation

"The Effect of Androgens and Estrogens on Human Sebaceous Glands", Strauss, Kligman, Pochi. J Invest Dermatol 1962 Aug; 39:139-55.

 

[armandein]

Thank you Bryan

Here is the full study
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v39/n ... 96222a.pdf
Armando

 

[Bryan]

Thank you Bryan

Here is the full study
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v39/n ... 96222a.pdf

Excellent! I'm delighted you were able to find a source for that study!

By the way, reading that study (and numerous others like it) puts the lie to the ridiculous claims made by certain uninformed crackpots who post here (like misterE) that estrogens supposedly have an androgenic effect on hair follicles by binding to an SHBG-receptor on the plasma membrane of hair follicle cells! The above study (and various other ones, besides) clearly shows that androgens and estrogens have powerful OPPOSITE effects on both sebaceous glands and hair follicles.

 

[raj47]

looks my third month goes pretty solid with my isotane 10mg(i'am running out of isotane 10mg for more than ten days) soon i'll buy.

my sebum controlled up to 99% i will post pic soon .but no more regrowth but dont think it will help to regrowth on my hair but i believe sebum is the cause for hair loss by restrict skin breath(oxygen) and some nutrition .

i'm strictly on my diet by not eating oily foods and sugar items ,i eat more oats and breads and rice by quality not by means quantity .

 

[captain_que]

RAJ, what Norwood are you? Do you have a pattern or diffuse?

 

[raj47]

diffuse when i was in 17&19 years of age and just now turned into 25 .my inital battle with diffuse for that i have shaved my head to get thick hair but its pointless without finasteride i thought when i was in 22.

now i am in patch condition like my crown thinned too much and at NW3~4.

 

[Artas]

So i have been reading throughout this thread, and I'm getting confused wether Soya Milk is good or bad for your hair. I drink Soya Milk daily =/

 

[KeepTheHair]

Guys I have googled it a bit I might just be unlucky but I can't find out what the chances of hair loss are when you are using accutane? Some say very small some sources say "common".


Which exactly is it?


Thanks a lot for any help

 

[Hoppi]

So i have been reading throughout this thread, and I'm getting confused wether Soya Milk is good or bad for your hair. I drink Soya Milk daily =/

It's brilliant. And it's also terrible. lol

JUST like green tea ¬_¬

Some components of these are excellent for hair, and some are just bad for you in general, perhaps unless you get FERMENTED soy.

Best bet is to just isolate the best bits of soy (daidzein I believe, as long as you are able to make equol) and green tea (EGCG I think) and take those instead

 

[raj47]

Guys I have googled it a bit I might just be unlucky but I can't find out what the chances of hair loss are when you are using accutane? Some say very small some sources say "common".


Which exactly is it?

i am here to shrink my sebum at the same time hitting hard on my DHT

 

[KeepTheHair]

:dunno: I don't know. I am the one asking.

I meant the sources online say different things.

 

[Hair101]

Here's an update on my progress

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=51812&p=562713#p562713

 

[qwerty]

im sure this has been brought up before, but what about all of the people who have been on accutane since their teens and still end up losing their hair in the male pattern baldness pattern??