An answer to all the seriously depressing sh*** posted around here

[bluejay]

I started balding at 19 so in a lot of ways I know what I'm talking about when I say most of the people posting on hair loss are overly dramatic, fatalistic and ungrateful to a degree. I used to be like that as well; I've met few other guys who were concerned about their looks as I was. And it was tough because I grew up as an exceptionally obese child and when I was 17 I was sick of the ridicule and went on an intense exercise regime and lost 70lbs and finally became happy, though still a tad insecure, about how I looked for the first time in my life. Then hair loss hit me hard and I regressed right back into the unconfident, quiet and socially withdrawn kid I always was. But fu** all that seriously, I think its extremely short-sighted and morally unjustified to wallow in self-pity for overly extended periods of times. To prove this I came up with a five finger method to show how life is a lot more than being hot and popular. In the western, mass-consuming and cosmetically superficial world, its easy to lose track of what a privileged life truly entails, but if you can count with me on these five points then you're most likely living in better conditions and with more luck than 90% of the rest of the world. This works for me, maybe you're missing some fingers but if you're with me on this then you really did win the genetic lottery in life.

1. You were born without any genetic/psychological defects such as blindness, autism etc.
2. You were born in a politically stable country with average living standards, access to education and healthcare (at this point your life is better than more than half of the world's entire population)
3. You were born into a loving and united family circle (unless you were adopted or your whole family died, my condolences)
4. Your family has a middle-class income or more (now your life is even better than half of those living in your own country)
5. You're intelligent (I've gotten in the best university in my city which must count for something)

Here are the extra five fingers you can very easily do without

6. You have some physically attractive trait which compensates for a lack of hair (I'm 6'4 and have a reasonably good looking face; maybe for you it might be your nice blue eyes or attractive deep voice. whatever can somewhat soften the blow of balding is still better than nothing at all).
7. You're talented in some area (I'm pretty good at bass guitar and the drums)
8. You're extremely rich, powerful and/or influential
9. You're the leader of a country
10. You're the leader and founder of a massively followed religion (i.e. you are Jesus or Buddha)


And there you have it; 10 steps to putting your life back into a more realistic perspective. Maybe this still doesn't change anything in your life but I think it at least made the whole process a lot easier for me to handle. Its too easy to become greedy and want it all because we've come to expect that life owes us everything, growing up in the western world when in reality it owes us two things ; jack and sh***. Hopefully this helped you some, but if not then I understand that too but you should still keep in mind how fragile and cruel the nature of life really is so you can at least be grateful of the things you take for granted so carelessly; finishing with the old cliché that you never appreciate what you have until its gone. Do you think that someone born with aids in Sierra Leone is thinking : "At least I'm a perfect Norwood 0 LOL wouldn't give that away for nothing" I seriously doubt it. I'm sure someone born in a prison camp in North Kore would give their hair and two legs away any day just to have been given the opportunity we take for granted which is being born free and protected. Come to think of it, I'm sure someone in a wheelchair in your country would easily give his hair just to walk again. Just some food for thought that's all; I don't want it to seem like I'm judging any of you. People will grieve in whatever ways they choose because that is their undeniable right after all.

 

[templerecess]

Thread #2 this week on this topic.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Take that guy out of a North Korean prison camp that you mention, let him live a few years in a westernised country, he will want more things. Being in shape, good looks, hair, parties, girls, consoles, sport e.t.c e.t.c.

The higher up you go the more you want, this is society this is life. You do need to keep a balance in life I agree and not lose perspective. But desiring that you keep your hair on your head is not exactly someone being over the top. Perfectly natural and not crazy.

 

[JimmyJones]

I started balding at 19 so in a lot of ways I know what I'm talking about when I say most of the people posting on hair loss are overly dramatic, fatalistic and ungrateful to a degree. I used to be like that as well; I've met few other guys who were concerned about their looks as I was. And it was tough because I grew up as an exceptionally obese child and when I was 17 I was sick of the ridicule and went on an intense exercise regime and lost 70lbs and finally became happy, though still a tad insecure, about how I looked for the first time in my life. Then hair loss hit me hard and I fell right back into he unconfident, quiet and socially withdrawn kid I always was. But fu** all that seriously, I think its extremely short-sighted and morally unjustified to wallow in self-pity for overly extended periods of times. To prove this I came up with a five finger method to show how life is a lot more than being hot and popular. In the western, mass-consuming and cosmetically superficial world, its easy to lose track of what a privileged life truly entails, but if you can count with me on these five points then you're most likely living in better conditions than 90% of the rest of the world. This works for me, maybe you're missing some fingers but if you're with me on this then you really did win the genetic lottery in life.

1. You were born without any genetic/psychological defects such as blindness, autism etc.
2. You were born in a politically stable country with average living standards, access to education and healthcare (at this point you're life is better than more than half of the world's entire population)
3. You were born into a loving and united family circle (unless you were adopted of you're whole family died, my condolences)
4. You're family has a middle-class income or more (now you're life is even better than half of those living in a first world country)
5. You're intelligent (I've gotten in the best university in my city which must count for something)

Here are the extra five fingers you can very easily do without

6. You have some physically attractive trait (I'm 6'4 and have a reasonably good looking face; maybe for you it might be you're blue eyes or attractive voice; whatever softens the blow of balding is better than nothing).
7. You're talented (I'm pretty good at bass guitar and the drums)
8. You're extremely rich, powerful and influential
9. You're the leader of a country
10. You're the leader of a massively followed religion (i.e. you are Jesus or Buddha)


And there you have it; 10 steps to putting you're life back into a more realistic perspective. Maybe this still doesn't change anything in you're life but I think it at least made the whole process a lot easier for me. Its too easy to become greedy and want it all because we've come to expect that life owes us everything, growing up in the western world when in reality it owes us two things ; jack and sh***. Hopefully this helped you some, but if not then I understand that too but you should still keep in mind how fragile and cruel life really is so you can be grateful of the things you take for granted finishing with the old cliché; you never appreciate what you have until its gone. Do you think that someone born with aids in Sierra Leone is thinking ; "at least I'm a perfect Norwood 0 lol wouldn't give that away for nothing" I seriously doubt it. I'm sure someone born in a prison camp in North Kore would give their hair and two legs any day just to have been given the opportunity we take for granted which is being born free and protected. Just some food for thought I don't want it to seem like I'm judging any of you; people will grieve in whatever ways they choose, that is their right, after all.

Completely agree. Focus on the other things in your life. Just shave it brah and rock the look. Women love bald men because it's a sign if masculinity. Going to the gym and getting a tan helps too. Let the part-aaa begin my brothers

 

[bluejay]

I agree its natural to want to move to the top; but most of us are already there. Feeling like my life is over just because I'm missing one aspect is like wanting to kill myself because I'm not a world famous actor or something. There's always going to be someone higher than yourself so to a degree, looking to the top is self-defeating and seriously narrows your perception of life. The guy from North Korea would probably not want more things, as the jump to a western country in itself would be comparable to finding Utopia. I read the biography of the only person born in a North Korean prison camp to escape (Escape from Camp 14) and he still lives a minimal lifestyle and is in fact disgusted by how western people live overly-indulgent and egotistical lifestyles which is why he refuses to learn english and associate with such persons. This is a worldview we've been taught in our society because it benefits the workings of the capitalist system which always aims to maximize profits no matter the cost, and I don't believe its a natural way to see the world.

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Thread #2 this week on this topic.

So what? How many obsessive threads are posted about "hating norwood 0's" or how balding is the end of the line? I think balding is a mixed bag and it disturbs me how off-balanced it is represented on here as if its some terminal disease rotting our minds away.

 

[Nadester]

IMO You my friend know what you are talking about.

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Your and templerecess have made some good points WITHOUT them being offensive.
But you are forgetting the fact that this is a Hair loss forum. People come here to talk about their
1. Everyday experience as a bald/ing male. They talk how hard it is to date or how they would feel if they go bald etc etc.
2.To get help on their regimen to combat Androgenetic Alopecia and inform us of their progress or any more loss.
3. To know more about Androgenetic Alopecia and if possible, contribute to it
etc etc
And eventually they will say things that get one more depressed but they also help people too.

Honestly, you made some good points but many memebers won't accept it. This is bcoz they get these advice out in the world all the time(including me) when they mention their problems of going bald.

 

[bluejay]

True and I used to be one of those overly pessimistic persons and even to a higher degree as I seriously considered suicide over this issue. My whole perspective changed when I saw those forums dedicated to short statured men and how there was a guy who was 5'2 who said he was going to kill himself because of his height. He said being short was the worst thing imaginable for a male and how his dad told him "at least you have a full head of hair" to which he replied that it doesn't count for sh** and that balding people can at least have surgery or take treatments to deal with it. When you're short all you can do is get limb lengthening surgery which costs around 100 000$, can leave you crippled and can only add 2-3 inches at the most. Its only natural to be consumed by your own problems but its very dangerous to go overboard with it because its so easy to just blame all your problems on one all-encompassing issue. When I was fat I used to think that if I was skinny then all my problems would suddenly disappear and would envy all the skinny people in the world; whether they were bald or had hair, it didn't matter to me. When I lost weight however I was still depressed and nothing had changed over night. We tend to lose perspective when something bad hits and I'm just looking to at least cheer up some of the members on here with my realization.

 

[Exodus2011]

good points but i grew up in a poor home with divorced parents lol. my family is the complete opposite of loving. me and my dad communicate maybe once a week at most and i never talk to my brother.

i'm also 5'6' and 125 pounds so i don't have many compensating factors for baldness.

you said you started losing at 19, so wat is your norwood now?

 

[bluejay]

good points but i grew up in a poor home with divorced parents lol. my family is the complete opposite of loving. me and my dad communicate maybe once a week at most and i never talk to my brother.

i'm also 5'6' and 125 pounds so i don't have many compensating factors for baldness.

you said you started losing at 19, so wat is your norwood now?

Sorry to hear that, but like I said if you can check out on the first two points then your life is at least better than more than half of the world's entire population. I have a perfect hairline but my losses are diffuse on the top:

 

[templerecess]

Okay, look, in fairness I appreciate your earnestness. It seems like your heart is in the right place. Also, full disclosure, I'm a NW1 who has stopped all his hair loss with Finasteride.

However, I too have flirted with the line of naive proselytizing on this forum. It seems dubious to me that 5 to 10 bullet points is enough information for you to judge the value, happiness, and privilege of a human life. This is also notwithstanding the fact that you've never met anyone on this forum, as you ask them to judge themselves by your 5 to 10 bullet point rubric. Life is a complicated abyss of emotions and interactions with environments. Some of the happiest people in the world are those with few material possessions. I'd like to see the suicide rates of Sierra Leone vs the United States. I would venture to say that those in the United States are higher. It's not that I don't have the inclination to agree with you, it's just that enough of my experience has showed me that I will never have the ability to fully understand the complexities of human happiness.

I will admit the following: there is no doubt that it is safer to live in the West; there is no doubt that I will live longer in the West; and there is no doubt that I have more of an opportunity for happiness in the West. But you have to admit the circular reasoning of your argument. You are essentially saying that "hey guys, the privileges you have from living in the west should make you happy considering your status as compared to those living in Somalia. However, you have little or no privileges (certainly not nice hair) as compared to those living in the West." Problem is we LIVE in the West. You are asking people to live there lives enjoying privileges they have in a part of the world in which they do not live, to help them ignore the lack of privileges in a part of the world in which they do. Be happy that you live in a part of the world that you do because you live in the part of the world that you do.

Also a quick metaphorical situation: imagine a domesticated dog. A Golden Retriever maybe. Now imagine this dog gets all the food it wants, and a warm shelter every day and night. But also imagine that this dog is almost always ignored, kicked and beaten when it makes a mistake, and never taken on walks.

Now imagine a Wolf. No guaranteed shelter over its head at night. It constantly is in a battle for it's survival. It has to fight and claw for every ounce of food it gets.

Which canine is happier? I ask you.

 

[bluejay]

Of course life is what you make of it. However, the point of my post wasn't to say "You have all of this stuff therefore you should feel like this" but its a response to those on here who believe they have the worst luck in the World. We are citizens of the World first and foremost so why not compare our experience with those of other human beings living overseas? Suicide rates are statistically higher in developed countries (just look at Japan) without question. We tend not to have as much resiliency in facing hardships as someone who has survived much harsher conditions from birth such as poverty or violence. I also believe it is because people are taught to alway seek more in life from a young age as they are exposed to images spread on tv screens of a world of beauty, comfort, fashion, social approval and acceptance through advertisements, music videos and films. This is a corrupted illusion we live in and that is why I think suicide rates are higher around our parts; we are never satisfied with what we have. We are already born into an ugly world filled with inequality because for us to live so comfortably and beautifully in the West, someone has to suffer. Our fellow beings in the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] world are the ones who’ve been pushed into that role because of 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century imperialism. When faced with balding, I think it is important to keep that in mind, so as not to lose track of who you are or where you stand in the grande scheme of things; there is way more to human life than simply being good looking, as I already stated. I think a lot of the members on here have forgotten that; I know I sure did for most of my life and I still occasionally struggle with it.

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Also a quick metaphorical situation: imagine a domesticated dog. A Golden Retriever maybe. Now imagine this dog gets all the food it wants, and a warm shelter every day and night. But also imagine that this dog is almost always ignored, kicked and beaten when it makes a mistake, and never taken on walks.

Now imagine a Wolf. No guaranteed shelter over its head at night. It constantly is in a battle for it's survival. It has to fight and claw for every ounce of food it gets.

Which canine is happier? I ask you.

I don't think that can reasonably be applied to hair loss because hair is not a factor for being loved and cared for as your metaphor entails (even though many here would disagree). Unless I'm missing the point you were trying to argue in which case, can you explain further?

 

[templerecess]

I don't think that can reasonably be applied to hair loss because hair is not a factor for being loved and cared for as your metaphor entails (even though many here would disagree). Unless I'm missing the point you were trying to argue in which case, can you explain further?

The point is that a Wolf (representing a Somali) would be indifferent or even amused that the Golden Retriever is ignored, kicked, beaten, and never taken on walks. The Wolf's situation is monumentally more difficult on its best day than is the Golden Retriever's situation on it's worst day. Notwithstanding the fact that the Wolf has never known the luxury of guaranteed food. Does that make the Golden Retriever's despair less valid?

I guess one could refer to me as a "determinist" or "materialist" in philosophical terms. Essentially, what I believe is social conditioning is every bit as powerful as physical conditioning to a human being. There is no "soul" or "you" in your mind that can fairly assess how you should be happy or not, and to which degree. We are essentially high-functioning CPUs. We are input/output organisms, most of the time with an illusion that our consciousness is outside the reach of the world or of nature. There is no consciousness. There is only our memory and sensory perception. Now add social conditioning to the mix, and one could see how a bald man in the USA would commit suicide before a hungry man in Somalia.

 

[bluejay]

I completely agree with your view of human consciousness and that's why I posted this thread in the first place. I know how I live, my values and my philosophies, but I remember how balding was such a huge impact on my psyche and almost broke me down; I became uncomfortable in my own body and mind. To fight this I read a lot of texts on philosophy and realized that the difference between social and physical conditioning is that the social one is a construct that has to be learned because its artificial and unnatural; therefore it can be de-constructed through critical thinking and self-reflection. Trying to adopt a larger perspective on life does help and that's what I was trying to share with others through this post, especially the younger guys like me who need it the most.

 

[swingline747]

Just a hypothetical here.... Throwing a curve ball.

You think two guys in Somalia standing face to face with the same issues and ONE isn't going to say "well I havent eaten for three days but man YOUR BALD!"

For me I don't have blue eyes, I have a very obnoxious voice, not tall, suffer anxiety and depression, parents divorced at like 9, was bullied all through school, parents were not generally good at being parents..... Pre or POST divorce.

Ive worked myself up from pretty much nothing, very hard I might add and yes a good head of hair IS something I want.
Pre hair loss a 9.... Post hair loss a 5 maaayyyyyybe and that's because I work out..... Operative word there? Work! I deserve to be pissed, I have that right.

Listen if it doesn't bother you then mam I commend you but each person deals with things diff and foremost this is a venting area so for you guys that keep coming in with this don't.
I like to vent from time to time and sometimes it is the only medicine so you don't go ape **** in the real world

 

[hellouser]

OP has mostly lost hair at the back and still has a visible hair line.

That's why he can remain so confident about his hair loss.

A visible hair line makes a world of a difference.

/thread

STOP! STOP SPREADING SO MUCH TRUTH!!

 

[bilboswaggins]

OP has mostly lost hair at the back and still has a visible hair line.

That's why he can remain so confident about his hair loss.

A visible hair line makes a world of a difference.

/thread

yeah this is true. I started watching House, hugh laurie looks pretty good despite the massive bald patch because he still has a Norwood 2 ish hairline. They don't even bother using concealer on his crown. This season 1 though I would guess he is almost bald by now

 

[Wolf Pack]

^ That looks terrible.

I would rather have a receding hairline because you can style it to look like full hair or close to it with the rest of your thick hair.

Once the mid scalp starts thinning or the crown, it is not only harder to cover but also more recognisable as balding in the public eye.

My crown has started thinning very slowly over the past few years, it's actually what made me get on finasteride. Mainly I am heading for hair loss front to back though. Like eventually I would get to Norwood 3 V.

 

[bluejay]

Receding hairlines can still be seen as stylish and distinguished, some can even pull it off until a Norwood 3. There are even certain men who have a high hairline most of their lives so society doesn't truly see it as balding until loss happens at the back and the top. A balding crown hits you right on the spot, takes away any excuse and makes you look sickly or deficient. I would have much rather gone bald the regular way, because by the time you notice crown thinning, more than 50% of its already gone since it so easily slips your attention, unlike receding temples which commands treatments at a much earlier stage. There's absolutely nothing cool about a bald spot and all you can do is buzz it; at least when you're only receding you still have some hair to work with and style. What's the point of being a perfect Norwood when you've got a shiny top that instantly negates it? It's almost like a cruel joke reminding you of what could have been which makes it even harder to adjust to the idea of balding.

 

[bluejay]

I'm not even going to go into this debate to see who can create the bigger pity-party. Balding crown = instant hair loss with a buzz cut as your only option (Most transplant doctors won't go near the area until your in your forties and its much harder to cover up. Receding hairline = more time with hair and a chance to act quickly in terms of treatments instead of letting it progress past the point of no return. Who looks cooler to you? Bald-patch Laurie or receding Nicholson?




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How would you have suggested I style my front then?

I wouldn't have; I would have said get on finasteride before it got so obvious. How could you have even let it come that far while looking at it straight in the mirror day by day? Unless you got side effects from finasteride, then I'm sorry, but otherwise I feel like there was just no excuse seeing how it bothered you so much. Also I haven't been able to style mine worth sh** since I was 21 without having a ridiculous gaping hole in the middle, at least you had a few more years to enjoy hair styles..

 

[Wolf Pack]

Receding hairlines can still be seen as stylish and distinguished, some can even pull it off until a Norwood 3. There are even certain men who have a high hairline most of their lives so society doesn't truly see it as balding until loss happens at the back and the top. A balding crown hits you right on the spot, takes away any excuse and makes you look sickly or deficient. I would have much rather gone bald the regular way, because by the time you notice crown thinning, more than 50% of its already gone since it so easily slips your attention, unlike receding temples which commands treatments at a much earlier stage. There's absolutely nothing cool about a bald spot and all you can do is buzz it; at least when you're only receding you still have some hair to work with and style. What's the point of being a perfect Norwood when you've got a shiny top that instantly negates it? It's almost like a cruel joke reminding you of what could have been which makes it even harder to adjust to the idea of balding.

Good post. Receders also tend to be less aggressive. I started receding at 24, went straight to Norwood 2.5. In my late 20s I am unchanged with minor thinning in the crown. Only got on finasteride 5-6 months ago.

Now my friends were all diffusers in their mid 20's, they didn't even notice their hair loss as you hint at, now they are panicking and getting on meds. All the top of their scalp is affected and density gone everywhere, they didn't pick it up till the end.

Even my close African origin mate is hating buzzing his hair, despite looking good with it and having a Norwood 2 hairline which still hasn't moved. He is now on Dutasteride and Regaine as it's thin all over. For me to notice thinning on him is a big deal, his skin and hair is black and it's buzzed to 1. Hopefully meds will help him.

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BS ^, I had no hair line one year ago and got it back with my transplant.

And now I'm starting to get the same bald spot as you at the back.

It doesn't even compare. I need to make a "game of mirror" to even see it.

It's when I had no hair line anymore that I could feel the full horror of baldness.

People with balding at the back have it so much easier.

I don't say it doesn't bother me a little, I will most likely fill it up with a second hair transplant, but come on, it's a pick nick compared to front thinning.

You can't tell people you've found the light if you still have a hair line.

And don't start with the styling, front thinning quickly becomes a mess. I still had a decent crown last year:

http://www.fredk.be/fue/before-hair transplant.jpg

How would you have suggested I style my front then?

That's not a good comparison Fred. He meant receders as in up to Norwood 3 slow pattern. In that picture you are bald and you were an aggressive diffuser.

Up to Norwood 3 it doesn't hamper things with girls or anything.