Anyone Recover From Reflex Hyperandrogenicity??

[trialAcc]

I've been wondering this as well but it really does not make sense.

What are your symptoms exactly? The common symptoms of RH (acne, oily skin and hair, itchy scalp, intense shedding and high libido)? Sorry I am too lazy to browse.

What's striking in your case is that finasteride has worked for you in the past.

Scalp redness, oily scalp, painful scalp & the shedding. Libido is normal, body hair normal.

I went from holding my NW2.5 for years to going NW3/4a within 3-5 months of restarting. At the start I thought the shedding was due to stop loss but it's been months now and hard to ignore. I only take finasteride 2x weekly right now, trying to see if anything can help.

 

[Selb]

I've lost 1NW + of ground, gone from frontal thinning only to thinning in the NW4 area and the hairline is pretty wrecked. My plan was to wait for 6 months (only 1 month away) but it's getting tough.

if it’s getting wrecked so badly then it might be worth it to take a break so you don’t have to worry. Some people lose hair through shedding for a long period of time. Like they don’t get results until month 10.

This sh*t is annoying because you’re dealing with a volatile thing called the hormonal system. Consistency and stability isn’t guaranteed even with a regimen you’ve been using for years.

Have you done any blood tests? If you do go off of it, wait a few weeks and go for a blood test (dht, test, estrogen)

 

[trialAcc]

if it’s getting wrecked so badly then it might be worth it to take a break so you don’t have to worry. Some people lose hair through shedding for a long period of time. Like they don’t get results until month 10.

This sh*t is annoying because you’re dealing with a volatile thing called the hormonal system. Consistency and stability isn’t guaranteed even with a regimen you’ve been using for years.

Have you done any blood tests? If you do go off of it, wait a few weeks and go for a blood test (dht, test, estrogen)

I would be able to deal with just the shedding but the other symptoms have definitely got me worried that this wont get better on it's own, especially the scalp itch/burning. I've dealt with the finasteride sheds before but they were always just that, shedding.

 

[Selb]

I would be able to deal with just the shedding but the other symptoms have definitely got me worried that this wont get better on it's own, especially the scalp itch/burning. I've dealt with the finasteride sheds before but they were always just that, shedding.

Finasteride can cause scalp irritation. How is your regimen different from before, when you had good results, and now?

 

[trialAcc]

Finasteride can cause scalp irritation. How is your regimen different from before, when you had good results, and now?

Just the inclusion of minoxidil 5%, but I started this in March 2020 and the new symptoms didn't start until October/November. I also went through a single bottle of topical finasteride in late September/early Oct before I got a oral prescription refilled in October.

Otherwise the only thing I was doing for years was finasteride 3x weekly and Nizoral 2x weekly.

 

[Selb]

Just the inclusion of minoxidil 5%, but I started this in March 2020 and the new symptoms didn't start until October/November. I also went through a single bottle of topical finasteride in late September/early Oct before I got a oral prescription refilled in October.

Otherwise the only thing I was doing for years was finasteride 3x weekly and Nizoral 2x weekly.

Do you still use nizoral?

 

[trialAcc]

Do you still use nizoral?

Yes, still 2x weekly. I also experimented with different shampoos to help the scalp conditions but again this is all after the symptoms started.

 

[Selb]

Yes, still 2x weekly.

And same brand of finasteride right? You can do a little test of stopping finasteride for two weeks. You won’t lose ground if finasteride is slowing down hair loss. See if the scalp pain goes away. The goal is to stop the pain and then slowly reintroduce finasteride again if it’s the cause

 

[trialAcc]

And same brand of finasteride right? You can do a little test of stopping finasteride for two weeks. You won’t lose ground if finasteride is slowing down hair loss. See if the scalp pain goes away. The goal is to stop the pain and then slowly reintroduce finasteride again if it’s the cause

It's proscar, which I've always cut in 4 pieces. As far as I know there is only the 1 brand but I could be wrong. The packaging/delivery was different this time around though, so I can't tell. They put the pills into a medicine capsule this time but in the past I've received them in the boxes.

 

[Selb]

It's proscar, which I've always cut in 4 pieces. As far as I know there is only the 1 brand but I could be wrong. The packaging/delivery was different this time around though, so I can't tell. They put the pills into a medicine capsule this time but in the past I've received them in the boxes.

I asked just in case but it’s unlikely that proscar would have changed that much. You could experiment with different brands but I don’t think it’ll do much.

I’m wondering since you said you got off topical finasteride in October, and your symptoms started around then. Topical finasteride suppresses more scalp 5a reductase than oral I’m pretty sure, so maybe stopping that triggered a form of hormonal response? Is it possible to start topical finasteride again? Continue the oral and your current dosage/frequency but maybe also add topical finasteride to see if that stops the pain. It would quickly stop the scalp pain in a few weeks if that’s the case.

So the options I can see are:

1) Stopping finasteride and just resetting use of it if the pain goes away.

2) adding topical finasteride and seeing if that’s helpful

3) continue the course and hope that finasteride will overcome this hormonal disruption

 

[trialAcc]

I asked just in case but it’s unlikely that proscar would have changed that much. You could experiment with different brands but I don’t think it’ll do much.

I’m wondering since you said you got off topical finasteride in October, and your symptoms started around then. Topical finasteride suppresses more scalp 5a reductase than oral I’m pretty sure, so maybe stopping that triggered a form of hormonal response? Is it possible to start topical finasteride again? Continue the oral and your current dosage/frequency but maybe also add topical finasteride to see if that stops the pain. It would quickly stop the scalp pain in a few weeks if that’s the case.

So the options I can see are:

1) Stopping finasteride and just resetting use of it if the pain goes away.

2) adding topical finasteride and seeing if that’s helpful

3) continue the course and hope that finasteride will overcome this hormonal disruption

I'm starting to think it was the topical as well, but if such a small dosage of it caused this problem would it be wise to start it again? I could easily order more but if it triggered this response in the first place and I had success on just oral alone I would think I should be staying away from topical rather then trying to sub it in again?

What would the plan be then, just be dependent on topical to keep my scalp in normal conditions? Rather then at least trying to normalize my scalp by staying off?

 

[Selb]

I'm starting to think it was the topical as well, but if such a small dosage of it caused this problem would it be wise to start it again? I could easily order more but if it triggered this response in the first place and I had success on just oral alone I would think I should be staying away from topical rather then trying to sub it in again?

What would the plan be then, just be dependent on topical to keep my scalp in normal conditions? Rather then at least trying to normalize my scalp by staying off?

Hard to say, because if you only took a small dose and it’s still affecting you a few months later, I’m not sure how long it’ll take until your scalp “normalizes.”

But again, if it really was the topical finasteride, then oral shouldn’t have an effect on your scalp pain. Meaning if you stopped it now you’d still feel it. If that’s the case then we know it was the topical and maybe it’ll just take a while before your system goes back to baseline.

Idk what the play is there. But if I were in your shoes, I would do option 1. If the pain goes away, you have your answer. If it doesn’t, then it may have been the topical finasteride that did this to you

 

[trialAcc]

Hard to say, because if you only took a small dose and it’s still affecting you a few months later, I’m not sure how long it’ll take until your scalp “normalizes.”

But again, if it really was the topical finasteride, then oral shouldn’t have an affect on your scalp pain. Meaning if you stopped it now you’d still feel it. If that’s the case then we know it was the topical and maybe it’ll just take a while before your system goes back to baseline.

Idk what the play is there. But if I were in your shoes, I would do option 1. If the pain goes away, you have your answer. If it doesn’t, then it may have been the topical finasteride that did this to you

I don't mind taking a break from the oral, I don't have much to lose at this point. With the topical however, if I were to try it again and it did cause this, I'm assuming there is a very good chance I make it worse/persist?

 

[Selb]

I don't mind taking a break from the oral, I don't have much to lose at this point. With the topical however, if I were to try it again and it did cause this, I'm assuming there is a very good chance I make it worse/persist?

I think it’s common that whenever you mess with hormones in a certain way and you cold turkey quit that method, it throws things in flux. I wouldn’t necessarily call it reflex hyper androgenic, but finasteride can upregulate androgen receptors at least in the prostate. Usually, from what I’ve read, this doesn’t last more than a few months before regulating itself back to normal. So if say you reduced dht enough in the scalp and then immediately stopped doing it, your body might upregulate the ARs there temporarily.

But if you continue topical, then it should slowly counteract that upregulation plus it’ll downregulate by itself once your hormones are stable

 

[trialAcc]

I think it’s common that whenever you mess with hormones in a certain way and you cold turkey quit that method, it throws things in flux. I wouldn’t necessarily call it reflex hyper androgenic, but finasteride can upregulate androgen receptors at least in the prostate. Usually, from what I’ve read, this doesn’t last more than a few months before regulating itself back to normal. So if say you reduced dht enough in the scalp and then immediately stopped doing it, your body might upregulate the ARs there temporarily.

But if you continue topical, then it should slowly counteract that upregulation plus it’ll downregulate by itself once your hormones are stable

Sigh, pretty depressing that I probably ruined my hair thinking I was going to be helping it by getting on topical before I could get another prescription.

 

[Selb]

Sigh, pretty depressing that I probably ruined my hair thinking I was going to be helping it by getting on topical before I could get another prescription.

The rule is if you lost it fast you can probably get it back too. I hope things get better

 

[trialAcc]

The rule is if you lost it fast you can probably get it back too. I hope things get better

I highly doubt it! I guess I'll order the topical and give it a try with a similar dosage though.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

The owner of the site has published an article indicative of the fact that sheds are generally necessary to pass through because hair improvement increases shaft diameter which increases inflammation. I advise a wig or hair system as a back-up to get through a shed. He recommends the use of a dandruff shampoo, here, keto, to reduce inflammation and shedding.

People like me have often sneered at minoxidil 2 percent thinking that it is too weak but this might be an important starting place so as not to enlarge and put into dormancy too many follicles at one time. When a treatment works "too well" sheds are all but guaranteed. I went through it and first shaved my head so all hair was the same length and then I went into a wig.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Sigh, pretty depressing that I probably ruined my hair thinking I was going to be helping it by getting on topical before I could get another prescription.

The likelihood that you have done such a thing approaches the null set. Treatments just aren't powerful enough to do these things in 99 percent of the cases. I notice that guys blame every single adverse effect on their male pattern baldness treatment. Not horny lately? finasteride? No, depression or just a cycle that we all go through. Can't get it up? Happens to the best of us, especially during periods of lack of confidence. I couldn't get it up for 9 months until my treatment started working and then a-plowing I began to go again like nothing every happened.

Good luck.

 

[trialAcc]

The likelihood that you have done such a thing approaches the null set. Treatments just aren't powerful enough to do these things in 99 percent of the cases. I notice that guys blame every single adverse effect on their male pattern baldness treatment. Not horny lately? finasteride? No, depression or just a cycle that we all go through. Can't get it up? Happens to the best of us, especially during periods of lack of confidence. I couldn't get it up for 9 months until my treatment started working and then a-plowing I began to go again like nothing every happened.

Good luck.

This isn't sexual or mental side effects that are ambiguous, it's tangible symptoms that I feel everyday that started after an exact time period, a 2-3 month finasteride break and a 1 month stint on topical finasteride before starting oral again. This isn't my first rodeo with finasteride either, I've been on it successfully with minimal to no sides for 6 years and seen the sheds and ridden them out, but this is different.

My scalp is visibly red/inflamed/itchy/oily and I'm shedding & miniaturizing more then I've ever shed before with confirmation from areas being visibly thin that were not just 5 months ago, as well as a full Norwood missing from the front (mainly the temple points). Something is causing this, I just don't know which part of the events it was.