I.D WALKER
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Of course you're referring to the fruit( Blackberries) in this instance and not the electronic device?
Please explain.
Please explain.
Back to the roots: Causes and effects of elevated DHT
- Thread starter benjt
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Very interesting PGD2, but
"Low O2 -> elevated DHT -> elevated NO -> elevated oxidative stress (ROS) -> alteration of ATP production + DNA damage -> cell senescence + programmed cell death -> follicle miniaturization"
how do you understand this real study?
[h=1]New treatment for seborrheic alopecia: the ligature of the arteries of the scalp.[/h]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/157397
Bilateral ligature of the superficial temporal arteries and of the posterior auricular arteries is proposed as a treatment for seborrheic alopecia. The arterial circulatory dynamics are, thus, replaced by capillary circulatory dynamics. Hypoxia is produced which inhibits enzymatic systems and lessens nocuous action of androgen and lipid factors on the pilosebaceous effectors. The histologic study shows that the production of sebum is greatly reduced and the condition of the hair follicle is strikingly improved.
less Oxigen------??? What about DHT?
BYW the important hormones for hair cycle are inside pilosebaceous unit. And fluctuate depending phase ....,anagen, telogen ....
"Low O2 -> elevated DHT -> elevated NO -> elevated oxidative stress (ROS) -> alteration of ATP production + DNA damage -> cell senescence + programmed cell death -> follicle miniaturization"
how do you understand this real study?
[h=1]New treatment for seborrheic alopecia: the ligature of the arteries of the scalp.[/h]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/157397
Bilateral ligature of the superficial temporal arteries and of the posterior auricular arteries is proposed as a treatment for seborrheic alopecia. The arterial circulatory dynamics are, thus, replaced by capillary circulatory dynamics. Hypoxia is produced which inhibits enzymatic systems and lessens nocuous action of androgen and lipid factors on the pilosebaceous effectors. The histologic study shows that the production of sebum is greatly reduced and the condition of the hair follicle is strikingly improved.
less Oxigen------??? What about DHT?
BYW the important hormones for hair cycle are inside pilosebaceous unit. And fluctuate depending phase ....,anagen, telogen ....
Of course you're referring to the fruit( Blackberries) in this instance and not the electronic device?
Blackberries have the highest anti-oxidant content food. Shouldn't they fight oxidation, and hence male pattern baldness if eaten regularly?
Mikazz, your theory has a few shortcomings:
1. It interprets the balding effects on the scalp solely as aging, at the same time ignoring that the programmed cell death as induced by PGD2 on the scalp is part of hair cycling. I consider it much more likely that balding is simply "hair cycling mechanisms gone out of hand", also for the following reason:
2. Minoxidil and adenosine mimic the role of NO in their environment, but are effective at treating hairloss instead of causing even more hairloss, which they should according to your theory.
3. Your theory also ignores what happens to the tissue around follicles as it only looks at the DPe/follicles themselves. In the tissue surrounding the hair follicles/DPe, there are typical inflammatory responses going on. This again supports 1. and has nothing to do with aging.
1. It interprets the balding effects on the scalp solely as aging, at the same time ignoring that the programmed cell death as induced by PGD2 on the scalp is part of hair cycling. I consider it much more likely that balding is simply "hair cycling mechanisms gone out of hand", also for the following reason:
2. Minoxidil and adenosine mimic the role of NO in their environment, but are effective at treating hairloss instead of causing even more hairloss, which they should according to your theory.
3. Your theory also ignores what happens to the tissue around follicles as it only looks at the DPe/follicles themselves. In the tissue surrounding the hair follicles/DPe, there are typical inflammatory responses going on. This again supports 1. and has nothing to do with aging.
I.D WALKER
Senior Member
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In laymen's terms, simply expressed are they not two separate "conditions" (M.P.B. and seborrhea alopecia) adversely impacting the follicle (hypoxia), essentially two different causatives ultimately producing this similar effect(alopecia)?
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Yes you are right, they are indeed renowned for their super anti- oxidant properties. however I personally have not seen sufficient data that suggests that anti-oxidants will effectively counter Androgenetic Alopecia. It's a wonderful theory insofar that they (blackberry plants) are relatively easy and inexpensive to grow and personally to boot, one my favorite fruits.
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Yes you are right, they are indeed renowned for their super anti- oxidant properties. however I personally have not seen sufficient data that suggests that anti-oxidants will effectively counter Androgenetic Alopecia. It's a wonderful theory insofar that they (blackberry plants) are relatively easy and inexpensive to grow and personally to boot, one my favorite fruits.
- PGD2 have been shown to inhibit hair growth, the results in mice is similar to male pattern baldness. However, this haven't been done by elevation of DHT, only by over-expression of PGD2 alone
- male pattern baldness is started when DHT supass a treshold, not by elevated PGD2. It means that DHT is causing elevation of PGD2 in male pattern baldness, but not instantaneously
- There is currently no proof that blocking PGD2 stop follicles miniaturization caused by DHT. There is only proof that PGD2 causes follicles miniaturization in mice.
- PGD2 level is varying relative to the growing phase of the follicle. DHT level do not changes according to the phase of the follicle.
- It means that elevated DHT causes accumulation of damage over time in the follicles, causing PGD2 to over-express in the long run.
- There is no proof that inhibition of PGD2 stop the damage caused by DHT in the follicles
- if elevated PGD2 in bald area of the scalp causes miniaturization of follicles, why transplanted hairs do not miniaturize in an elevated PGD2 area? Miniaturization only happens to damaged follicles from DHT locally. This means that PGD2 is only a consequence of damaged follicles locally, not a cause in male pattern baldness.
People have tried PGD2 inhibitors in hair loss forums(for exemple: topical cetirizine). At best, it helps growing vellus hairs, I haven't seen reversal of miniaturization like anti-androgens can do(finasteride, dutasteride). Ok they are not the best way to prove PGD2 effectivenes, but nothing at this moment proves that PGD2 is 100% the way to go.
IMO, the link between DHT and PGD2 is oxidation causing damages over time to the cells. What else causes cell senescence ?
NO stimulate hair growth, this is why DHT is causing hair to growth all over the body (in follicles: more dht -> more NO). However, NO is causing oxidative stress over cells via peroxynitrite. Under a certain amount, cells will resists and oxidative stress won't do harm. However, in the balding scalp there is an excess of DHT, caused by low O2 leading to an excessive amount of NO. The body do not compensate instantaneously from elevation of NO, the oxidative stress will build overtime and will raise exponentially. At a certain level, the cells can't compensate from this big increase in oxidative stress and irreversable damages to the cell will start.
Minoxidil mimic NO, leading to more hair growth initially. However, oxidative damage will build over time, and the hair growth effect will be progressively inhibited by the raising oxidative stress.
Fibrosis and inflammation is a consequence of mitochondrial damage in cells caused by oxidative stress in aging.
Ok, if oxidative damage is not in the pathway of male pattern baldness, why superoxide dismutase makes people regrowth hair? (SOD's prevents oxidative damage from peroxynitrite)
I have not read the whole thread.
I don't know how, but masturbation/effect of sexual activity in the body is your missing link/answer.
if there are people with open mind here, I dare you to look into this and see how suddenly all the pieces fall in place.
ill just contribute my 2 cents, traditionalists say, masturbation or other sexual activities cause baldness yet increase body hair.
nofappers have reported decreased rate of beard growth.
I don't know how, but masturbation/effect of sexual activity in the body is your missing link/answer.
if there are people with open mind here, I dare you to look into this and see how suddenly all the pieces fall in place.
ill just contribute my 2 cents, traditionalists say, masturbation or other sexual activities cause baldness yet increase body hair.
nofappers have reported decreased rate of beard growth.
Hairbackpls
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How do u explain that my asexual brother temples started receding at same age as mine did then? He also has full goatee (hes 20 now) that started growing when he was 16 years old and my beard started growing at 19 year old. He also has a lot of bodyhair and i dont.
People are different tho...
My friend that never faps and lives healthy life has the thickest hair and best hairline ive ever seen. Could be genes too since hes father is 65 and has no signs of balding at all.
I do believe in this theory at some degree tho, because it would explain why balding is so common and starts so early nowdays. People did not bald as much and as early hundred years ago. Thats because they didint masturbate.. Just had some sex.
That would also explain why noble people went bald at middleages, because they had money and time to **** hookers while normal people were working all day.
dps, take your religious bullsh1t somewhere else. This is the research section, not the "scriptures of people with imaginary friends" section.
On a more neutral note (sorry, everybody may have their religion, I dont care, but f*cking leave it out of scientific discussions): Masturbation increases systemic DHT (probably as an overspill from testicular production). However, it does not increase scalp-local DHT, which is the DHT responsible for male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia. As a result, masturbation may have many consequences on you (including behavioral changes as T and DHT can enter the brain), but it has no effect on baldness progress - simply, because scalp-local DHT is not influenced by the DHT released in masturbation (or sex, for that matter).
@Mikazz: Thank your for your explanation In all honesty, my though process didnt go that far! I'll give your theory some more thought, but I still believe its main weakness is to declare PGD2 activity, which is one of the most well-researched aspects of male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia, an effect of aging, which it is clearly not, and the oversimplified view on NO.
On a more neutral note (sorry, everybody may have their religion, I dont care, but f*cking leave it out of scientific discussions): Masturbation increases systemic DHT (probably as an overspill from testicular production). However, it does not increase scalp-local DHT, which is the DHT responsible for male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia. As a result, masturbation may have many consequences on you (including behavioral changes as T and DHT can enter the brain), but it has no effect on baldness progress - simply, because scalp-local DHT is not influenced by the DHT released in masturbation (or sex, for that matter).
@Mikazz: Thank your for your explanation
In all honesty, my though process didnt go that far! I'll give your theory some more thought, but I still believe its main weakness is to declare PGD2 activity, which is one of the most well-researched aspects of male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia, an effect of aging, which it is clearly not, and the oversimplified view on NO.I disagree on this too, because the minoxidil long-term studies still report a strongly decreased hair loss rate after the maximum regrowth has been achieved. This also contradicts your theory.Mikazz said:
Why the DHT in the scalp is not influenced by the systemic DHT?
Please make me understand: The systemic DHT circulates through blood? And blood circulates through the scalp.
So why systemic DHT has no effect on scalp DHT?
Where is the DHT produced?
The scalp has some property of retaining DHT and not letting it go?
Thank you very much!
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Also question about itching near hairline which i was aware on since long time, i noticed it happen only after workout and sex. So if systemic DHT is related to DHT in scalp then the itching is caused by high level of DHT?
I thought I saw a study where sexual stuff like p**rn caused a spike in T levels which would translate to systemic DHT levels which seem like they would circulate and contribute some amount to local DHT. I wouldnt be suprised if working out caused some similar changes but again its just a minor thing not a long term problem. Assuming of course a small study that found this was even true because often one small study will contradict other small studies so it takes a big pile of evidence to really figure out the truth
The answer has always been handle T and DHT locally through some topical application. Why we are even here 20 years after propecia without one is still hard to believe. I hope CB gets licensed by a good company that finishes it because its the nearest hope and even that is like 2-3 years away
The answer has always been handle T and DHT locally through some topical application. Why we are even here 20 years after propecia without one is still hard to believe. I hope CB gets licensed by a good company that finishes it because its the nearest hope and even that is like 2-3 years away
See if you notice it on any occasion where you raise your body temperature and perhaps sweat. You lose/purge about 80% of that heat right where men go bald.
I think androgens can cause the itch but it might be one of the many factors involved with male pattern baldness upstream or downstream of that just no one has any clue about yet I mean PGD 2 alone raises many questions alone. I am debating trying propecia to see what happens to my itch because I feel for me androgen activity is responsible for it although I feel like the front and temples respond a little differently than elsewhere. I think testosterone plays a role that people dont really acknowledge its not just DHT
If 20 years of no fap, no p**rn, no sex and no working out slowed your hair loss to 21 years instead of 20...
Would you give it up?
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All catholics priests I've ever some across have had at least recession. Most being completely bald.
The no fap thing is a joke. Pay no attention to it.
That's some argument...