Can minoxidil make surrounding healthy hairs dependent?

[Secretlybatman]

Where's your "vortex"? Regarding #9 on your list in the post above, maybe you should study English first, criticize the English of others later?

Or you could recognize analogies.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=v...ChMIzLSi0PH4yAIVx9umCh28hwiD&biw=1366&bih=599

You're welcome.

 

[yetti]

Ha, it's called a vertex, you called it a vortex several times in several different posts

That line is not on my vortex it runs down from my vortex

6. The only claims I've made are the following: That i got the line down from my vortex where the minoxidil ran

but you're saying that you were making an analogy and it wasn't a mistake. Right.

Just don't be so quick to criticize other people's English when you have your own language issues.


PS

1. Medication doesn't effect everyone the same way. Yes Minoxidil helps some people and it does not help others and some people it has the opposite effect. If my pictures aren't proof enough for you. Take a look at this guy http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/95059-Minoxidil-made-me-bald-amazing-regrowth-after-7-months-without!

2. You've yet to back up your claim that healthy hair can not get addicted to minoxidil. What you seem to ignore is that I asked this question while you made a claim on it thus the burden of proof is on you. Apparently you're too stupid to even comprehend the English language but that's unsurprising, you are American after all.

Medication doesn't "affect" everyone the same way.

 

[Secretlybatman]

SecretlyBatman,

You don't even understand how Minoxidil works. Here's a link so you will have a better "hypothesis":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoxidil

Hair sheds and then goes in the growth phase.

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Your very deceptive to omit the fact your taking finasteride, until later. You are misleading people into thinking Minoxidil caused hair fallout, when your hair is already Androgenetic Alopecia sensitive, or you just like to experiment with finasteride. Your also too stupid to see the evidence I've given you. I said that I took liquid minoxidil for over twenty years. So you believe it never leaked on to the back of my head (below the vertex). I have even used it to grow my hair faster. I had an ex girlfriend who used it to grow her hair faster, and she didn't have bald spots. My teenage son is not balding, and he uses it to grow his hair faster. And you are balding, and take finasteride to stop your Androgenetic Alopecia sensitive hair. That makes you either a liar, or you believe you don't have genes for baldness. Which is it?

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You fail to make any point here. You hair isn't a Norwood 2.5, which is according to your "evidence". Why leave out the fact your a finasteride user. Is it because you want to convince people that gravity made a line in your vertex? Do you experiment with finasteride, but you believe your hair is not Androgenetic Alopecia dependent? I think you just make things up as you go along.

I never left out that I'm a finasteride user or at least i never did deliberately. I'm on 1.25 per day although I'm still losing ground i think, I've definitely still got the "itch" from time to time. Minoxidil from feb 2014 to feb 2015, finasteride from november 2014 onwards. The only ways i experiment with finasteride is by increasing doses sometimes when i cant find my pill cutter. It's never below 1.25.

Hair sheds then goes in the growth phase, yeah I know that but can healthy hair which isn't thinning get addicted like the unhealthy thinning hair since it's being put in this growth phase too. My hairline digs back sharply on the right side plus my crowns spot. What Norwood would you classify me as? Why is it that the only side i applied minoxidil to is the one that's gone and the other side completely fine? Why did that guy whos post i linked lost hair on minoxidil over many months then grow it back without minoxidil?

 

[Pequod]

I agree with this and it's what I was thinking as I read through this thread. If you claim something which is not a widespread belief: healthy hair likely gets addicted to minoxidil, and it falls out and becomes a bald area if you stop minoxidil - then the burden of proof is on you, not the other way around. And your own experience is not a proof of it happening to anyone but you. If it happens to many or most people it should be apparent in studies and also in the majority of posts on boards like this.

What you say is very fair, however I have to say that just because studies haven't been performed to prove this theory it can still be true. I agree that probably nobody can actually prove this though, because nothing scientific is there.

Here is something to consider though.

Let's say the normal male has about 12% of his hair follicles in a resting phase. Now minoxidil makes most of those "wake up" and start growing, so after the start of minoxidil in a couple of months the percentage drops to 2%.

The patient sees 10% extra hair growth due to minoxidil (a reasonable number).

The patient stays on minoxidil for one year, and then quits using it for whatever reason.

In a couple of days/weeks/months his hair sheds and returns back to 12% resting or maybe even a slightly higher percentage.

Which follicles return? Is it only the ones that initially grew on starting minoxidil?

My guess is it is a combination of most of those plus some follicles that were already growing prior to starting minoxidil. Can I prove this? No. It is only a theory, but it is hard to believe that this wouldn't occur.

One thing that may prove this is the way follicles grow after a hair transplant. Not all follicles start to grow a few months after the shock phase, some still stay dormant in a resting phase for up to a year in their normal cycle. This may mean that follicles are programmed into a time sequence regardless of the drugs or transplanting that we subject them to.

if this is accurate then surrounding hair follicles could also become dependent to minoxidil for the time they receive the dosage and stay in a growth phase longer than had they not received it. Thus they would be dependent on it. I think it is proven that the follicles return to baseline once stopping minoxidil, so which hairs actually fall out may not matter anyways. It is possible that some of the resting follicles that received minoxidil keep growing too, and don't shed the hairs.

regardless, I am not sure why this matters if it is or isn't true. Where a person puts minoxidil they get more hair growth is all they should probably care about. Which hairs do or do not shed as a percentage is not that important. I don't use minoxidil because it does not improve male pattern baldness, it only forces more growth into the growth phase and gives the illusion it does. Yes it is nice to have more hair growing, but it will still be damaged by DHT.

 

[Secretlybatman]

I saw the pictures you had from 2013 - 2014, and 2015. You are getting very close to a full head of hair with what you are doing now.

Those long hair pictures (Except for the crown one) do not show loss they show how bad i was treating my hair. I'm losing a lot of crown on my hairline while my crown hasn't really changed. I'll try get a pic of my hairline later in proper light. I'm definitely at least a nw2. I've got like a cm sq of hair missing on my right temple.

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My son stopped for the same reason, just recently. Very strange. He's not balding yet (He's not in his twenties yet, but hopefully he won't have my genes for that either). I always responded well to it.

so that's the question. Can surrounding hair that's been accustomed to minoxidil and been put in its growth phase as well be addicted and thus full out for good when you stop minoxidil. I don't want to bring my hairline in more than it already is

 

[yetti]

Being that there are apparently no good studies on this I would think that a good person to ask would be an expert doctor who has had a very large number of hair patients... like Dr. Bernstein in NYC

 

[Secretlybatman]

2 Months into treatment

5 Months into treatment

7 months into treatment


Stopped minoxidil here got on finasteride
Now


Yet the other side which i didn't apply minoxidil to hasn't moved


I mean can't you see why I'm concerned that minoxidil addiction or a reaction to it may have played a part here

 

[moarhairpls]

This would be difficult to study, and it's hard to make a hypothesis when we aren't even sure how minoxidil works. I do think that inconsistent use of minoxidil made my hair worse over the long-term, whereas consistent use improved it.

 

[mangezfrais]

Do you need to go on monox and finasteride or would just finasteride work on its own?

 

[moarhairpls]

Do you need to go on monox and finasteride or would just finasteride work on its own?

Finasteride works on its own, but you'll get better regrowth with minoxidil too.

 

[Secretlybatman]

So is there any answer on this? Is there any possibly reason why minoxidil could have contributed to more loss either by allergy or surrounding hairs getting dependant or anything?

 

[Secretlybatman]

First maybe then no then maybe again :/

 

[Secretlybatman]

Minoxidil is safe, but for some it's just ineffective. If you already have the DHT level down with finasteride, and are staying on finasteride, minoxidil shouldn't hurt.

I think there is just a small window for minoxidil to work. When I was 20, I grew all of it back (NW1 at the time, about an inch gone). And that is with 2%.

I quit for a couple of years in between (kick boxing, and other sports. Didn't have time/money). But I went back to it. I guess I'm just a good responder. Also, I didn't
even use finasteride until this year (2015 - current). It appears to be doing more work than finasteride, but the min is definitely helping me.

But for some people, it's just ineffective. It's really not powerful enough to cause damage. I let my son use it. He did lose some hair, but it grew back.

But if you stopped. Could hair not affected by male pattern baldness fall out and not return due to it's obtained depency on minoxidil? What if you're allergic to minoxidil, could you lose hair?

 

[yetti]

It's a good question that clearly no one here can answer.

 

[Pequod]

From everything I have read minoxidil forces hair follicles out of the resting phase and into growth. The normal scalp has about 10% of hair in the resting phase so minoxidil gives you about 10% new growth.

What happens when you quit minoxidil? Your scalp goes back to normal, so you lose 10% as it goes back to resting. So that includes all hairs, even those that were growing prior to using minoxidil.

Now has this been proven in a study on exactly what hairs are involved? Not that I have read but then I don't think it really matters. If you are going to use minoxidil I don't see why you wouldn't do the entire scalp anyways. minoxidil does not stop male pattern baldness so it is a false solution to hair loss.

The important point is I don't think minoxidil hurts your hair if that is what the question is. You will go back to what you were without it, and your scalp will go back to the normal hair cycles.

 

[Secretlybatman]

What if you're allergic to minoxidil? and what if the hair that was terminal got addicted to minoxidil? Also why would you use minoxidil on your entire head and not just the thinning areas? finasteride or dutasteride should cover the rest?

 

[Secretlybatman]

I guess no one knows

 

[Secretlybatman]

When I use a concentrated amount on areas where there's no/almost no thinning, it does appear to make it thinner. This is true with 15% min, and .1 ml of finasteride mixed in. Weird. Both my kids noticed, and it was true. My crown and top of my hair, which had no thinning before, was getting balder and thinner.

But on my receding hairline, it's growing it back.

What's funny is when I use 5% liquid or foam, I don't get any side effects. But with 15% I do. This is a mystery to me.

I used to use 30% min with .05 ml finasteride ( = .5mg finasteride daily). But it had hydrocortizine. I believe that definitely makes a difference. Hydrocortizine stops allergic reactions.

How does that make sense, how can one part of your hair be allergic and another not? I was putting a full 1ml on just the one side of my hairline. so maybe i used too much and got that reaction or something I dunno. I'm still so puzzled as to why 1 side of my hairline is fine but the other is 2/2.5. If it was solely down to male pattern baldness you'd think the other side would at least show some kind of thinning but its solid.

 

[Secretlybatman]

Also could you apply minoxidil and hydrocortizine afterwards?

 

[Secretlybatman]

I mean i know i have male pattern baldness because my crowns gone too but before i started min it was only my crown. Why is the left side of my hairline untouched. Makes no sense to me. nw3v basically except for the left side. Also i don't actually remember seeing thinning of the hair. Like i see no little tiny hairs even with a magnifying glass and i never remember seeing thinning its like they just died.