Connecting The Dots And Finding The Mechanisms

[Ayr9]

As the title says,I am trying to connect the dots that causes the hairloss.So I am attaching few pics here:-
Picture 1-Here we can see what are the no of possible causes which tends to combine and cause the hairloss.
We know that genetics play a certain role in balding and thinning of hair and also the androgens present normally for fucktioning of humam body(We can classify them as the precursors for hair miniaturization).
Now one will question,how will it do and what are the steps involved in it..Now lets see the process:-
Androgens(at a certain point) and genetics(mainly) are responsible for:-

1. Chronic scalp tension(which includes skull bone growth,chronic contraction etc)
2. Now this leads to chronic inflammation(ROS,COX-2,IL-1,TNF-ALPHA and also TGF-BETA 1)
3. But mainly the chronic inflammation occurs by increase in tgf beta-1
4. Now interestingly,dht also response to this chronic inflammation and also cause increase in tgf beta-1
5. Now this dht cause increase in overproduction of sebum where scalp is oily but people also tends to have flakes and dandruff where scalp tends to be dry(These are both caused by overproudction of sebum)
6. Ok so now this increase in tgf beta-1 and dht(responding to other pro-inflammatory pathways,proteins,fatty acids etc) causes:-Blood vessel calcification,dermal sheath thickening and perifollicular fibrosis.
7. Now this blood vessel calcification causes fat deposition,dermal sheath thickness causes decrease of blood flow which decreases the oxygen supply to the scalp and perifollicular fibrosis occurs due to overproduction of collagen.
8. Now this three above factors are influenced by dht and by increase of tgf beta-1(which is also increased by dht)Now this dht response to this pro-inflammatory pathways are caused by chronic scalp tension{chronic scalp tension is due to genetics and the androgens(mainly dht) which is present in our body for normal work function of a body} and by combining all these,miniaturization of hair follicles occur.

Picture 2:-I am not going to describe it anymore as it can be seen that its a cycle.(Kindly see the cycle by zooming the picture)
Picture 3:-It shows how finasteride and minoxidil attacks and arrest the hairfall.
Clearly we can see here that finasteride attacks the androgen response(dht response) to the inflammation which increases the tgf beta-1 cytokine and then that eventually causes blood vessel calcification,fibrosis and dermal sheath thickening.By attacking the dht it inhibits the tgf beta 1 to reduce it and also stops binding the dht to the scalp follicles and and eventually stops the hairfall and causes some amount of regrowth..
And minoxidil increases the blood flow supply to scalp which increases oxygen and nutrient flow eventually causing new hair growth but still fails to treat the entire cause due untreated androgen response.
Conclusion-I can conclude here that dht plays as the main important factor here.But only the presence of dht cannot cause hair miniaturization,it goes through no of reactions with other signaling proteins,fatty acids derivatives,cytokines,pro-inflammatpry pathways and causes chronic scalp conditions like calcification,fibrosis,over production of sebum etc and eventualy causes miniaturization.We can still stop hairfall at some point(without touching the dht) by inhibiting the process which dht does after binding with the proteins,fatty acis etc(like inhibiting tgf beta-1,stopping blood vessel calcification and also by stopping the fibrosis).

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

What about tests about grafting scalp follicle on the arm and observing :

Synchronous balding of scalp and hair-bearing grafts of scalp transplanted to the skin of the arm in male pattern baldness.

You see, all this calcification bullshits, skull bone growth ALL BEEN DEBUNKED ABOUT DECADES AGO
I've seen this theory from @Arrade and it's quite contagious, but this is still utter BS and stronk broscience out of your asses...and this is dangerous for people seeking real treatments.

Point is, when you graft a "future" balding hair from scalp to arm, IT IS STILL MINIATURING, but it's NOT ON SCALP ANYMORE, this follicle will not be exposed to all your bullshits theory, but just to DHT in the arm skin...BAM BALDING ANYWAY.

Please also note that opposite is also true :
WHEN YOU GRAFT AN ARM HAIR IN THE SCALP IT'S ACTUALLY GROWING §§§

So, for the last time, please consider real studies done on this, and accept once and for all that the balding mecanism is whithin THE HAIR FOLLICLE HIMSELF, NOT HIS SURROUDING ENVIRONNEMENT AND TISSUE.

"The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-yr-old male with progresive male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal, hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding area in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of male pattern baldness lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles, the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the 'balding clock' keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body."

in Acta Dermato Venereologica 59(3):266-8 · February 1979
Quite simple demonstration, but debunked ALL THOSE BULLSHITS

Jesus, why Tsuji will even persue his research on hair cloning if problem was in the scalp himself, why hair transplants would even work then...actually this is only common sense

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Mook]

Wow never knew about that study. The arm thing is pretty interesting.

 

[Hate da Bt]

View attachment 108271

Spoiler

View attachment 108272

Spoiler

View attachment 108273

Phew, Russell was so fuckin' hot back in the day...

 

[Ayr9]

Okay but tell me,
Why fibrosis occurs in a balding person??
Why is there less blood supply in the scalp of a bald person than a non-bald person??
Why dht in a bald person protudes the skull bones???
Why IGFBP3 is less in a bald person and those develop prostate cancer???
Why minoxidil works for most who use them????
Why dermaroller works??Doesnt it create new plasma platelets???
And please tell me if you can grow hair in your tight hard as rock scalp???Even when you uses finasteride it makes the scalp thinner and elastic...
Do you see any guys who are going bald have flat head shape??
Can your pinch easily and a good amount in the balding scalp areas???

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

Phew, Russell was so fuckin' hot back in the day...

 

[Hate da Bt]

View attachment 108297

Hahaha
I'd still shag him, though...
I don't like my men pretty.

 

[Arrade]

What about tests about grafting scalp follicle on the arm and observing :

Synchronous balding of scalp and hair-bearing grafts of scalp transplanted to the skin of the arm in male pattern baldness.

You see, all this calcification bullshits, skull bone growth ALL BEEN DEBUNKED ABOUT DECADES AGO
I've seen this theory from @Arrade and it's quite contagious, but this is still utter BS and stronk broscience out of your asses...and this is dangerous for people seeking real treatments.

Point is, when you graft a "future" balding hair from scalp to arm, IT IS STILL MINIATURING, but it's NOT ON SCALP ANYMORE, this follicle will not be exposed to all your bullshits theory, but just to DHT in the arm skin...BAM BALDING ANYWAY.

Please also note that opposite is also true :
WHEN YOU GRAFT AN ARM HAIR IN THE SCALP IT'S ACTUALLY GROWING §§§

So, for the last time, please consider real studies done on this, and accept once and for all that the balding mecanism is whithin THE HAIR FOLLICLE HIMSELF, NOT HIS SURROUDING ENVIRONNEMENT AND TISSUE.

"The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-yr-old male with progresive male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal, hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding area in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of male pattern baldness lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles, the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the 'balding clock' keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body."

in Acta Dermato Venereologica 59(3):266-8 · February 1979
Quite simple demonstration, but debunked ALL THOSE BULLSHITS

Jesus, why Tsuji will even persue his research on hair cloning if problem was in the scalp himself, why hair transplants would even work then...actually this is only common sense

Perhaps body hair requires less blood flow and scalp hair more?
Can you say they are the same type of follcile?

Not to mention that scalp transplants often are set deeper in the skin where there is more blood flow, we know miniturized follicles rise up to a higher layer in the scalp, connected by an angiofibrotic tract.

Also, its funny to say it's "dangerous" meanwhile every conventional means to treat balding is unhealthy

 

[Arrade]

What about tests about grafting scalp follicle on the arm and observing :

Synchronous balding of scalp and hair-bearing grafts of scalp transplanted to the skin of the arm in male pattern baldness.

You see, all this calcification bullshits, skull bone growth ALL BEEN DEBUNKED ABOUT DECADES AGO
I've seen this theory from @Arrade and it's quite contagious, but this is still utter BS and stronk broscience out of your asses...and this is dangerous for people seeking real treatments.

Point is, when you graft a "future" balding hair from scalp to arm, IT IS STILL MINIATURING, but it's NOT ON SCALP ANYMORE, this follicle will not be exposed to all your bullshits theory, but just to DHT in the arm skin...BAM BALDING ANYWAY.

Please also note that opposite is also true :
WHEN YOU GRAFT AN ARM HAIR IN THE SCALP IT'S ACTUALLY GROWING §§§

So, for the last time, please consider real studies done on this, and accept once and for all that the balding mecanism is whithin THE HAIR FOLLICLE HIMSELF, NOT HIS SURROUDING ENVIRONNEMENT AND TISSUE.

"The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-yr-old male with progresive male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal, hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding area in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of male pattern baldness lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles, the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the 'balding clock' keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body."

in Acta Dermato Venereologica 59(3):266-8 · February 1979
Quite simple demonstration, but debunked ALL THOSE BULLSHITS

Jesus, why Tsuji will even persue his research on hair cloning if problem was in the scalp himself, why hair transplants would even work then...actually this is only common sense

It's likely this study was done by those who practice hair transplants, thus they are directly defending the idea that keeps them making money. Doesn't sound unbiased

 

[ahmad029]

What about tests about grafting scalp follicle on the arm and observing :

Synchronous balding of scalp and hair-bearing grafts of scalp transplanted to the skin of the arm in male pattern baldness.

You see, all this calcification bullshits, skull bone growth ALL BEEN DEBUNKED ABOUT DECADES AGO
I've seen this theory from @Arrade and it's quite contagious, but this is still utter BS and stronk broscience out of your asses...and this is dangerous for people seeking real treatments.

Point is, when you graft a "future" balding hair from scalp to arm, IT IS STILL MINIATURING, but it's NOT ON SCALP ANYMORE, this follicle will not be exposed to all your bullshits theory, but just to DHT in the arm skin...BAM BALDING ANYWAY.

Please also note that opposite is also true :
WHEN YOU GRAFT AN ARM HAIR IN THE SCALP IT'S ACTUALLY GROWING §§§

So, for the last time, please consider real studies done on this, and accept once and for all that the balding mecanism is whithin THE HAIR FOLLICLE HIMSELF, NOT HIS SURROUDING ENVIRONNEMENT AND TISSUE.

"The author transplanted composite skin grafts from balding, non-balding, and bald areas of the scalp, to the skin of the arm. The galea aponeurotica was trimmed away from the grafts. The patient was a 29-yr-old male with progresive male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness). The transplants from the balding area became bald at the same rate as the balding donor site in the receding frontal, hairline, whereas the transplants taken from the non-balding area in the occiput continued to grow the same amount and quality of terminal hairs. Bald grafts taken in front of the receding hairline remained bald. This shows that the cause of male pattern baldness lies in the follicle itself or in its very close surrounding and does not depend on the galea aponeurotica, the increased tension of the scalp or of its muscles, the diminished vascular supply to the scalp or any other regional factor localized to the head area. It also shows that the 'balding clock' keeps time even when the follicle is transplanted to another region of the body."

in Acta Dermato Venereologica 59(3):266-8 · February 1979
Quite simple demonstration, but debunked ALL THOSE BULLSHITS

Jesus, why Tsuji will even persue his research on hair cloning if problem was in the scalp himself, why hair transplants would even work then...actually this is only common sense

Than why transplanted hairs thins out after some time

 

[HairSuit]

I think @Hate da Bt tripped and fell on his dislike button..... someone help him up, quick.

 

[inmyhead]

I think @Hate da Bt tripped and fell on his dislike button..... someone help him up, quick.

He is probably tired of these random theories which do not have any proof.

 

[9982]

Okay but tell me,
Why fibrosis occurs in a balding person??
Why is there less blood supply in the scalp of a bald person than a non-bald person??
Why dht in a bald person protudes the skull bones???
Why IGFBP3 is less in a bald person and those develop prostate cancer???
Why minoxidil works for most who use them????
Why dermaroller works??Doesnt it create new plasma platelets???
And please tell me if you can grow hair in your tight hard as rock scalp???Even when you uses finasteride it makes the scalp thinner and elastic...
Do you see any guys who are going bald have flat head shape??
Can your pinch easily and a good amount in the balding scalp areas???

My scalp skin is surprisingly flexible. Even where I'm thinning.
My crown is flat and that's where I started thinning
I get bleeding in the front hairline and top of the head with a 0.5mm stamp. So lots of bloodflow.
I can pinch skin all over my scalp.

 

[Arrade]

My scalp skin is surprisingly flexible. Even where I'm thinning.
My crown is flat and that's where I started thinning
I get bleeding in the front hairline and top of the head with a 0.5mm stamp. So lots of bloodflow.
I can pinch skin all over my scalp.

Nah overtime man it stiffens. Believe me at Nw2 it didn't feel stiff but now it's started to.

 

[9982]

Nah overtime man it stiffens. Believe me at Nw2 it didn't feel stiff but now it's started to.

Then by keeping it flexible, it should theoretically stop it at least. Or reverse it?
I wish it were that easy

 

[HairSuit]

He is probably tired of these random theories which do not have any proof.

But let me ask you this..... aren’t we all shooting in the dark here? Again I’ve been around here for almost 2 decades..... in that time, I’ve seen more theories posited than you can imagine. We like to fall back as DHT being the lone culprit, and yet finasteride or any androgen blocking medicine is not the silver bullet that it should be if that were the case. So, being as these are just that.... forums to discuss experimental treatments, what’s wrong with challenging the commonly held theories, in hopes of getting to the bottom of things?

 

[Arrade]

Then by keeping it flexible, it should theoretically stop it at least. Or reverse it?
I wish it were that easy

I think it’s stiff because of the calcification or fibrosis, which can be an ongoing process. I don’t think massage is necessary

 

[Arrade]

I don’t believe the muscles of the scalp are to blame, stiffness as I believe is simply calcium deposition

 

[inmyhead]

But let me ask you this..... aren’t we all shooting in the dark here? Again I’ve been around here for almost 2 decades..... in that time, I’ve seen more theories posited than you can imagine. We like to fall back as DHT being the lone culprit, and yet finasteride or any androgen blocking medicine is not the silver bullet that it should be if that were the case. So, being as these are just that.... forums to discuss experimental treatments, what’s wrong with challenging the commonly held theories, in hopes of getting to the bottom of things?

We have tons of pictures which prove results of finasteride.
And..
We have like literally zero pictures of people regaining hair using some sort of calcification protocols.

Let me ask you, why is that?

Testosterone also binds to androgen receptors, so it would make sense that some people are just way too sensitive to T... and even if they destroy their DHT, they still continue losing hair.. We also have breezula studies which showed efficiency during phase 2.

People like Danny Roddy are just sprouting nonsense citing some random studies. That guy never had male pattern baldness.