Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Georgie]

You should have told me I could have grabbed it for you while I was still in India and shipped it to you from the states.

Nonsense! You have your own life to worry about my dear!

 

[SteveTabernack]

I impatiently bought some from alibaba whilst I await a group buy from the private forums. Because it’s difficult to measure accurately I’m doing around 250-300mg daily split into morning and evening. So far i’ve Taken it orally 3 times and for some fucked reason I feel DROWSY about half an hour later. I have no idea why.

Which private forum is that?

Also, why is it that oral seti is all the rage now? Used to be oral was considered inferior to topical

 

[infinitepain]

lol when you have done propecia, minoxidil oral/topical, ketoconazole, LLLT, RU, enza, spironolactone, and wounding for over a period of three years and none of them stopped shedding at all and then a few weeks on seti completely stops all shedding I would say that is good results so far.

You got it from alibaba? can you post the link directly to the place you picked up from?

also did you test it? assume that chinks are scammers by default.

Which private forum is that?

Also, why is it that oral seti is all the rage now? Used to be oral was considered inferior to topical

Im not sure, I have heard about seti for ages now, and never saw any evidene it did anything, other than making the users poorer.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Hey, Sanchez. Sorry to hear it didn't go well for you. Are you saying it was causing a telogen efluvium for 3 months straight? Did you have Telogen Effluvium before the daro or just once you started daro?

I had about 2.5-3 months of Telogen Effluvium total when I started on aggressive treatments but then the loss all stopped dead after that.

What other treatments have you tried, and what brought you to this point of experimentation with your hair?

Telogen Effluvium, accelared it or did nothing. But i was shedding much more without any signs of it was working.

I tried duta, finasteride, high dose ru and minoxidil before without any results.

I really want to try seti but the Kane en LUO version gave me a faster heartbeat that kept me from falling asleep. My last hope is the seti private forum GB. Hope it will arrive soon. And maybe Brotzu?

 

[IdealForehead]

Telogen Effluvium, accelared it or did nothing. But i was shedding much more without any signs of it was working.

I tried duta, finasteride, high dose ru and minoxidil before without any results.

I really want to try seti but the Kane en LUO version gave me a faster heartbeat that kept me from falling asleep. My last hope is the seti private forum GB. Hope it will arrive soon. And maybe Brotzu?

If you're interested to try one last antiandrogen, cyproterone 50-100 mg orally for 6-12 months would probably be the last reasonable thing to try. If that doesnt work there's definitely something funny going on. Very hard to take but very strong too and reasonable safety record given that its been used for ages for prostate cancer.

I would probably get a scalp biopsy and/or autoimmune/nutritional/hormonal blood tests after that (or at this point) since some of these antiandrogens should do something for you if it's truly just male pattern hairloss.

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead : 50-100mg is a way too much ... ... and I tried it was totally useless. Dutasteride a more effective against hair loss. Don't play that game.

Well for me dutasteride is like candy. I was taking 5 of the brand name avodart a day at one point because after 10 months of using it I was still losing hair. Still my DHT levels didn't change.

Finasteride and dutasteride don't work on me at all. I'm immune. My 5-alpha reductase enzymes must be a genetic variant that can't be inhibited by these meds.

So I dont know what's stronger for the average man's hairloss. Ive tried both but only cypro did anything for me. And yeah cypro is hard as hell to take at that dose. My dick was completely dead. But it works as a proof of concept. Ie. If you take a broad strong antiandrogen orally like that and still lose hair there's something funny going on.

 

[itchymadscalp]

@IdealForehead : Dutasteride works for me ... but I need at least 2mg ... People forget that, indeed Dutasteride 0.5mg lowers DHT levels by a lot, but when you increase the dose you can lower more effectively DHT in the scalp tissues. But sometimes it comes with a price : lack of sex drive. You're not immune to Dutasteride, your dose was too low ... you needed a bigger dose of Dutasteride in order to lower DHT in your scalp.
Cyproterone can work ... but if it work Dutasteride will work better ... and no testosterone for a long period can have big impact on mood, personality, energy ... it's not a good advice. Especially 50-100mg, it can leads to depression and suicide. I was taking 12.5mg every day or every other day and my Testosterone was very low, under castration levels, I was still losing my hair (because I lowered my Dutasteride dose to "only" 0.5mg, and it was not enough to suppress DHT in the scalp). I know some people still want to believe if you lower DHT by 90% there is almost no DHT left in the scalp, but they are wrong. That's why I think topical anti-DHT (because a part of DHT is produced locally) can do a better job ... I will try to explain why later, but now I'm too tired.

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead : Dutasteride works for me ... but I need at least 2mg ... People forget that, indeed Dutasteride 0.5mg lowers DHT levels by a lot, but when you increase the dose you can lower more effectively DHT in the scalp tissues. But sometimes it comes with a price : lack of sex drive. You're not immune to Dutasteride, your dose was too low ... you needed a bigger dose of Dutasteride in order to lower DHT in your scalp.
Cyproterone can work ... but if it work Dutasteride will work better ... and no testosterone for a long period can have big impact on mood, personality, energy ... it's not a good advice. Especially 50-100mg, it can leads to depression and suicide. I was taking 12.5mg every day or every other day and my Testosterone was very low, under castration levels, I was still losing my hair (because I lowered my Dutasteride dose to "only" 0.5mg, and it was not enough to suppress DHT in the scalp). I know some people still want to believe if you lower DHT by 90% there is almost no DHT left in the scalp, but they are wrong. That's why I think topical anti-DHT (because a part of DHT is produced locally) can do a better job ... I will try to explain why later, but now I'm too tired.

In my case it was a different issue. Even on dutasteride 2.5 mg my serum DHT levels were completely normal. This isn't even about scalp levels. It wasn't even dropping my blood levels 10%. They were completely unaffected.

In normal men, even a single dose of 0.5 mg dutasteride drops serum DHT dramatically.

I contacted some of the researchers that ran the prostate studies for getting avodart approved and they said of the thousands of men they studied and monitored DHT levels on, they never saw a similar case. So whatever my situation is, it's rare.

Almost certainly its a genetic variation of my 5-ar enzyme, but I'm not gonna waste the time/money to get genetic testing just to figure it out.

I lost a year on finasteride and another year on dutasteride before I realized something was wrong and got my DHT levels checked. It was frustrating losing hair on them both. Both are useless therapies for me. Which is why I've done so many experimental therapies instead.

If i could just take finasteride/dutasteride i would.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

@IdealForehead : Dutasteride works for me ... but I need at least 2mg ... People forget that, indeed Dutasteride 0.5mg lowers DHT levels by a lot, but when you increase the dose you can lower more effectively DHT in the scalp tissues. But sometimes it comes with a price : lack of sex drive. You're not immune to Dutasteride, your dose was too low ... you needed a bigger dose of Dutasteride in order to lower DHT in your scalp.
Cyproterone can work ... but if it work Dutasteride will work better ... and no testosterone for a long period can have big impact on mood, personality, energy ... it's not a good advice. Especially 50-100mg, it can leads to depression and suicide. I was taking 12.5mg every day or every other day and my Testosterone was very low, under castration levels, I was still losing my hair (because I lowered my Dutasteride dose to "only" 0.5mg, and it was not enough to suppress DHT in the scalp). I know some people still want to believe if you lower DHT by 90% there is almost no DHT left in the scalp, but they are wrong. That's why I think topical anti-DHT (because a part of DHT is produced locally) can do a better job ... I will try to explain why later, but now I'm too tired.

If you're taking oral cyp acetate you should be also taking finsasteride at least. If you weren't than the testosterone you still had would have been converting to DHT. I actually think when testosterone levels fall the conversion to DHT increases, its just a theory of mine tho.

If I was going to go all in, I would be taking oral bicalutamide along with duta, and applying small amounts of vaginal estrogen (premarin) to my hairline area. Maybe I would take nolvadex to help mitigate the side effect of gyno but it would still probably happen.

 

[Georgie]

Which private forum is that?

Also, why is it that oral seti is all the rage now? Used to be oral was considered inferior to topical

Pioneering hair growth. They do optimised seti which can be used orally or topically.
They all reckon it’s better but who knows.

Well, the studies were focused on oral route of administration and got the best results using 2mg in this manner. Personally, I use too many topicals already, and anything that I can take systemically which may in turn have systemic results is a bonus for me because I lose facial and body hair also.

 

[Georgie]

If you're interested to try one last antiandrogen, cyproterone 50-100 mg orally for 6-12 months would probably be the last reasonable thing to try. If that doesnt work there's definitely something funny going on. Very hard to take but very strong too and reasonable safety record given that its been used for ages for prostate cancer.

I would probably get a scalp biopsy and/or autoimmune/nutritional/hormonal blood tests after that (or at this point) since some of these antiandrogens should do something for you if it's truly just male pattern hairloss.

Scalp biop is a good idea.

 

[Georgie]

Well for me dutasteride is like candy. I was taking 5 of the brand name avodart a day at one point because after 10 months of using it I was still losing hair. Still my DHT levels didn't change.

Finasteride and dutasteride don't work on me at all. I'm immune. My 5-alpha reductase enzymes must be a genetic variant that can't be inhibited by these meds.

So I dont know what's stronger for the average man's hairloss. Ive tried both but only cypro did anything for me. And yeah cypro is hard as hell to take at that dose. My dick was completely dead. But it works as a proof of concept. Ie. If you take a broad strong antiandrogen orally like that and still lose hair there's something funny going on.

Funny story actually, I got my dht tested back in jan and got my results back 6-8 weeks later. Over a month at that point on avodart and my dht had gone from 0.40nml/l prior, to 0.60nml/l after. Go figure. (Normal values are 0.16-1.0nml/l)

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

@hemingway_the_mercenary : I was taking Dutastaride 0.5mg along with Cyproterone. + Oral and Topical Estradiol. I still use Topical Estradiol, but I think I'm goint to drop it, useless :/
When testosterone decreases DHT decreases too (DHT is something like 10% of Testosterone, blood level ... in scalp it's another story). I tried oral Bicalutamide, it was totally useless, and I think it made things worse (maybe like Enzalutamide/Darolutamide ... it can leads to androgen receptors overexpression, not a good thing in a long term use). Nolvadex would increase Testosterone ... except if you cut your balls off.

I think you might just have very aggressive hairloss which is very difficult to halt. How long were you using oral Bicalutamide? Didn't I mention to you somewhere that the study you found saying it lead to androgen receptor overexpression was for a specific cancer cell line only?

Paranoia is very common when using aggressive treatments that there are no clear time tables on. Happens to me too.

Listen if you used bicalutamide with duta at the doses used to treat prostate cancer for more than 4 months and still did not notice a stop in the progression of hair loss, I don't think there is much more you can do.

Hope thats not the case, best of luck

 

[Georgie]

I think you might just have very aggressive hairloss which is very difficult to halt. How long were you using oral Bicalutamide? Didn't I mention to you somewhere that the study you found saying it lead to androgen receptor overexpression was for a specific cancer cell line only?

Paranoia is very common when using aggressive treatments that there are no clear time tables on. Happens to me too.

Listen if you used bicalutamide with duta at the doses used to treat prostate cancer for more than 4 months and still did not notice a stop in the progression of hair loss, I don't think there is much more you can do.

Hope thats not the case, best of luck

Seti, pge2, growth factors (agf-9), psi, mg132, tb500. Expensive, but options nonetheless.

 

[SteveTabernack]

Pioneering hair growth. They do optimised seti which can be used orally or topically.
They all reckon it’s better but who knows.

Well, the studies were focused on oral route of administration and got the best results using 2mg in this manner. Personally, I use too many topicals already, and anything that I can take systemically which may in turn have systemic results is a bonus for me because I lose facial and body hair also.

Are people there seeing good results? Whether from seti or anything else. Always read about them doing all sorts of group buys.

 

[kawnshawn]

By the way guys.
Seems like the university doesnt want to do the testing anymore.
My contact asked me to clarify why I wanted to test these substances and why I have them.
So I told him the truth.
Then received a reply that he couldnt do it because he couldnt make these decisions on his own.
I've tried to ask him to give my request to the person who does make these decisions, also told him that I could pay for it.
But never heard anything back.
Sorry fellas.

Eh, can't really blame him I guess. For them I guess this kinda starts to fall into a legal grey area due to the circumstances. Ran into the samw problem when I was getting some of my stuff tested.

 

[IdealForehead]

Where did you get your dutasteride from ?
It's hard to believe. But ok ... sometimes weird things happen, like it happened to me. So I can accept your strange story.

Got it with legit prescription from the biggest pharmacy chain in my city. Tried generic. Tried confirmed brand name Avodart. Confirmed pills were not expired. Checked DHT levels multiple times. Confirmed no effect from up to 2.5 mg per day for weeks.

I didn't like it either but what choice did I have but to accept it as well. After that I went on RU for 2 years which slowed but did not stop the loss, tried spironolactone and then cypro for a month, and now I've been on daro for 5 months.

Still technically too soon to pass final judgment on daro but I think it's my best and final solution given my limited options and the effect so far.

Also, it is my opinion that androgen receptive upregulation is not a common or significant problem for most people to worry about as reviewed here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-about-androgen-receptor-upregulation.110125/

 

[whatevr]

By the way guys.
Seems like the university doesnt want to do the testing anymore.
My contact asked me to clarify why I wanted to test these substances and why I have them.
So I told him the truth.
Then received a reply that he couldnt do it because he couldnt make these decisions on his own.
I've tried to ask him to give my request to the person who does make these decisions, also told him that I could pay for it.
But never heard anything back.
Sorry fellas.

Lol. Everything's out against the balding guy. f*** those pricks.

 

[Georgie]

Are people there seeing good results? Whether from seti or anything else. Always read about them doing all sorts of group buys.

It’s mixed. Most of what I have read about seti is either it doesnt do much or it stops shedding, but you need pge2 for regrowth. The higher oral doses always seem to do better. There have been some good reports from guys who used PSI and mg132 but thing is it’s really hard to get and it’s very expensive.
A lot of the guys are using CB too, and from what I read that seems to yield the best results which is surprising since it’s really just a side-free version of RU. I will say that most of those guys are using a custom vehicle that the private forum makes and sells. No one knows what’s in it bar the guys who make it.

From what I observe, your typical regimen on P H G looks like:
Duta, seti, RU or CB, pge2/castor oil, wounding, LiCl, VPA. Seti is always a staple.
Quite a lot of guys using adenosine, stemox, estriol, and various random growth factors also. To date the most amazing results I’ve seen anywhere have still been full mtf regimens. Regardless, I have learned quite a lot of useful things from the forum and I think if you can get in, it’s great for anyone who’s past the point of usual treatments. It’s also great that these crazy bastards are willing to try really very highly experimental things.. like chlorine dioxide and DIY scalp injections. Actually I’m following a guy who’s about to do home mesotherapy using TB500 and SGF-57. Anyway, if you can get in, it’s a useful resource for many different things.

 

[Georgie]

Ps about to change vehicles from minoxidil to DMSO.