Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Ollie]

So essentially partial proteasome inhibitors have a dual mode of action. One is that is totally blocks androgen receptors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12119296/

Secondly, it causes rapid fibroblast proliferation and stem cell activation. So it switches on the anangen phase fast, and hugely shortens Tologen. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23963711/
Others on the private forums have used it, and it tends to work within about 14 days. It’s basically a holy grail treatment but no one is rich enough to do it long term. Like I said, I’d like to try to talk this supplier down if I can get a few orders.

Well, polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake...

Why tf other than the price do we rub the sh*t on our head that we do when something like this exists...

Whats the reasoning behind the cycling on and off ?

 

[IdealForehead]

Well, polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake...

Why tf other than the price do we rub the sh*t on our head that we do when something like this exists...

Whats the reasoning behind the cycling on and off ?

Proteosome inhibitors are highly experimental and potentially toxic drugs used in chemotherapy. Plus there are no human studies on scalps that I'm aware of. As far as I know it's all rat studies. eg.:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116182/

That rat study used bortezomib. Not sure if anyone's tried that one on a human head yet, but it's a big enough drug that it's dirt cheap on Alibaba, and it seemed to work for the rats.

Toxicity from bortezomib is described here:

http://chemocare.com/chemotherapy/drug-info/bortezomib.aspx

Chemo dose can be calculated from here and here. For my height/weight it's around 2.15 mg IV twice weekly.

In the rat study above, they used Bortezomib 1% as a topical every other day for 2 weeks. Applying 2 mL of such a topical each time to a human head would mean application of 20 mg to your scalp each time.

It's easy when you're running a rat study for 2 weeks because you don't have to care what happens to the rats. But what happens to a human when they apply 9x the anti-cancer dose of a relatively new chemo agent to their scalp and do it 1.75x as often as chemo would be administered?

How long can a human do that for and what happens to them long term?

(I'm not sure I'd want to find out.)

Unless I'm missing something. Seems to me you should really max out your anti-androgens, estrogens, things like PRP, etc. before you start even considering running chemo experiments on yourself. That's some pretty crazy stuff.

 

[Georgie]

Proteosome inhibitors are highly experimental and potentially toxic drugs used in chemotherapy. Plus there are no human studies on scalps that I'm aware of. As far as I know it's all rat studies. eg.:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116182/

Still, if you're willing to go on a chemo agent topically for hair growth, there's good odds it might work (but at potential other costs).

That rat study used bortezomib. Not sure if anyone's tried that one on a human head yet, but it's a big enough drug that it's dirt cheap on Alibaba, and it seemed to work for the rats.

Toxicity from bortezomib is described here:

http://chemocare.com/chemotherapy/drug-info/bortezomib.aspx

Chemo dose can be calculated from here and here. For my height/weight it's around 2.15 mg IV twice weekly.

In the rat study above, they used Bortezomib 1% as a topical every other day for 2 weeks. Applying 2 mL of such a topical each time to a human head would mean application of 20 mg to your scalp each time.

It's easy when you're running a rat study for 2 weeks because you don't have to care what happens to the rats. But what happens to a human when they apply 9x the anti-cancer dose of a relatively new chemo agent to their scalp and do it 1.75x as often as chemo would be administered?

How long can a human do that for and what happens to them long term?

(I'm not sure I'd want to find out.)

Unless I'm missing something. Seems to me you should really max out your anti-androgens, estrogens, things like PRP, etc. before you start even considering running chemo experiments on yourself. That's some pretty crazy sh*t.

@Ollie as ideal days, it’s not been considered because of the potential health risks involved. Whilst mg132 is considered relatively safe immediately to use, the long-term effects of topical use aren’t well documented. What we do know if that prOlonged oral route proteasome inhibition can cause all sorts of neural degradation issues, Alzheimer’s etc. this is why we cycle it.

@IdealForehead i’m not sure about bortezomib. I have only seen that it causes hair LOSS. I don’t know if all proteasome inhibitors can be used in this case

 

[Kornel]

Is there any difference between mg132 and PSI?

 

[SteveTabernack]

I have searched to the ends of the internet to find what causes retrograde. Can’t seem to find any answers other than it’d aggressive, hard to treat and occurs In both genders. Maybe there’s a particular hormonal aspect to it, maybe it’s hereditary to a degree, maybe it’s something else bizarre. What I have noticed by speaking with others who have it however, is that hormonal manipulation does nothing to help it. I still can’t get my head around why this pattern exists.

So, as always, we're fucked.

 

[Ollie]

Proteosome inhibitors are highly experimental and potentially toxic drugs used in chemotherapy. Plus there are no human studies on scalps that I'm aware of. As far as I know it's all rat studies. eg.:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116182/

Still, if you're willing to go on a chemo agent topically for hair growth, there's good odds it might work (but at potential other costs).

That rat study used bortezomib. Not sure if anyone's tried that one on a human head yet, but it's a big enough drug that it's dirt cheap on Alibaba, and it seemed to work for the rats.

Toxicity from bortezomib is described here:

http://chemocare.com/chemotherapy/drug-info/bortezomib.aspx

Chemo dose can be calculated from here and here. For my height/weight it's around 2.15 mg IV twice weekly.

In the rat study above, they used Bortezomib 1% as a topical every other day for 2 weeks. Applying 2 mL of such a topical each time to a human head would mean application of 20 mg to your scalp each time.

It's easy when you're running a rat study for 2 weeks because you don't have to care what happens to the rats. But what happens to a human when they apply 9x the anti-cancer dose of a relatively new chemo agent to their scalp and do it 1.75x as often as chemo would be administered?

How long can a human do that for and what happens to them long term?

(I'm not sure I'd want to find out.)

Unless I'm missing something. Seems to me you should really max out your anti-androgens, estrogens, things like PRP, etc. before you start even considering running chemo experiments on yourself. That's some pretty crazy sh*t.

Ok i'll pass.

thanks @IdealForehead and @Georgie (resident forum Doctors)

 

[Georgie]

So, as always, we're fucked.

Well I’m waiting on my AGF-39 order to arrive. Hopefully if that works for me in some way, then others could feel more confident about trying it.
I think for us retrgoraders, we need fairly invasive growth stims to make a difference.
Here’s what I know:
minoxidil works to a degree. That’s it. There is something fundamentally very wrong with our hair growth cycle that is outside of the usual Androgenetic Alopecia fuckery. I feel like there is some hormonal component that is as yet not recognised for our pattern. Part of my theory is actually HPA issues. Anyway, because we have all tried AA’s, estrogens and 5AR’s without great success, my aim is to work on growth stimulation at a deeper level. So we get into growth factors, stem cells, hopefully stress response inhibitors when I can work out the best route for this. There are days when I think it’s all over because my hairloss is this seemingly untameable f*****g beast. However there are others here who I care about, and I want to try whatever I can here for all of us. So yeah.

 

[whatevr]

Are you sure you don't just have hypothyroidism? My entire sides & back thinned out when I developed hypothyroidism at 20 years old, even before I displayed signs of male pattern baldness.

I don't think people realize that the lab ranges for hypothyroidism are at least 300% too wide. I've never seen a healthy person who's TSH was above 1.5, yet they claim that up to 4.20 is normal. My TSH was as high as 8. Now it's 3.57 and my side hair is still pretty damn thin. Honestly if your TSH is above 1 your thyroid is probably lacking in some respect. There are so many people walking around who are at least partially hypothyroid and they don't even have the slightest clue. When you get tested YOU HAVE TO GET THE LAB REPORTS IN HAND. Don't let the doctor or the f*****g nurse tell you "your results are fine" over the phone. That is BULLSHIT. T4 & T3 hormones affect EVERY SINGLE cell in your body including your hair. If your gland is not making enough you cannot be healthy PERIOD.

I have to capitalize because I'm fighting this disease for 6 years, even longer than male pattern baldness and it's the second largest thing ruining my life. Almost as hard to treat as baldness. They claim to have pills for this but they do not provide an adequate replacement for your own gland! Do not believe the bullshit. Medical research on hypothyroidism stopped in the 1960s when they started selling L-thyroxine to everyone. People need to get informed, it could change their life as it did mine.

 

[Georgie]

Are you sure you don't just have hypothyroidism? My entire sides & back thinned out when I developed hypothyroidism at 20 years old, even before I displayed signs of male pattern baldness.

I don't think people realize that the lab ranges for hypothyroidism are at least 300% too wide. I've never seen a healthy person who's TSH was above 1.5, yet they claim that up to 4.20 is normal. My TSH was as high as 8. Now it's 3.57 and my side hair is still pretty damn thin. Honestly if your TSH is above 1 your thyroid is probably lacking in some respect. There are so many people walking around who are at least partially hypothyroid and they don't even have the slightest clue. When you get tested YOU HAVE TO GET THE LAB REPORTS IN HAND. Don't let the doctor or the f*****g nurse tell you "your results are fine" over the phone. That is BULLSHIT. T4 & T3 hormones affect EVERY SINGLE cell in your body including your hair. If your gland is not making enough you cannot be healthy PERIOD.

I have to capitalize because I'm fighting this disease for 6 years, even longer than male pattern baldness and it's the second largest thing ruining my life. Almost as hard to treat as baldness. They claim to have pills for this but they do not provide an adequate replacement for your own gland! Do not believe the bullshit. Medical research on hypothyroidism stopped in the 1960s when they started selling L-thyroxine to everyone. People need to get informed, it could change their life as it did mine.

Oh yeah I’ve had my thyroid checked a number of times. I don’t exhibit any symptoms of hashimotos ether, other than maybe hairloss.
Both my mother and sister have hashimotos and their hair loss was never like mine. Just sort of mild thinning and outer corners of eyebrows were thinned too.
Plus they got the weight gain, cold, dry skin thing. I’ve never had those issues. Mine I still believe is estrogenic.

 

[countjulian]

I am really thinking about jumping on the Daro train. I've never made my own topical before, besides the Daro what other ingredients will I need?

 

[Georgie]

I am really thinking about jumping on the Daro train. I've never made my own topical before, besides the Daro what other ingredients will I need?

All you need is your minoxidil. You just have to work on what dose you want to try. 1mg/ml is probably the best starting point.

 

[sunchyme1]

all you guys using minoxidil as your base, or just minoxidil in general, do you experience any flaking on your scalp?

its the reason why i stopped using liquid version and went with the foam. the flaking was f*****g nuts.

 

[Georgie]

all you guys using minoxidil as your base, or just minoxidil in general, do you experience any flaking on your scalp?

its the reason why i stopped using liquid version and went with the foam. the flaking was f*****g nuts.

You may be sensitive to the alcohol or pg. it also depends on how much you use. I remember when I was using it like 3 times a day at 6-8ml each application I got bad itching and flaking. Sometimes it’s just the brand too.

 

[countjulian]

All you need is your minoxidil. You just have to work on what dose you want to try. 1mg/ml is probably the best starting point.

Anyone have suggestions on measuring tools? Should I just buy from Kane?

 

[Georgie]

Anyone have suggestions on measuring tools? Should I just buy from Kane?

Buy what from Kane? We all got our daro from Gang Luo

 

[countjulian]

Buy what from Kane? We all got our daro from Gang Luo

The Daro, I guess Gang Luo is the way to go.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

I have searched to the ends of the internet to find what causes retrograde. Can’t seem to find any answers other than it’d aggressive, hard to treat and occurs In both genders. Maybe there’s a particular hormonal aspect to it, maybe it’s hereditary to a degree, maybe it’s something else bizarre. What I have noticed by speaking with others who have it however, is that hormonal manipulation does nothing to help it. I still can’t get my head around why this pattern exists.

So essentially partial proteasome inhibitors have a dual mode of action. One is that is totally blocks androgen receptors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12119296/

Secondly, it causes rapid fibroblast proliferation and stem cell activation. So it switches on the anangen phase fast, and hugely shortens Tologen. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23963711/
Others on the private forums have used it, and it tends to work within about 14 days. It’s basically a holy grail treatment but no one is rich enough to do it long term. Like I said, I’d like to try to talk this supplier down if I can get a few orders.

This is the most interesting drug I've heard of since I first started reading about ru, finasteride, dutasteride, etc 7 months ago. Crazy fast results. I would certainly be interested in a buy, assuming we can get the price to come down at least a little. Georgie if you get the free time and wouldn't mind dm'ing me some info about the side effect profile and the measure of success I'd greatly appreciate it. I don't have access to any private forums, nor do I know where to find them.

Concerning DARO and not wanting to compile every Idealforhead post in this thread - I understand it negligibly crosses the 'blood brain barrier' and so libido is unaffected if I'm correct ? What about erection quality ? Feminizing potential ? My next big concern is what are some ways to potentially combat these side effects ? Any drugs or supps or anything I can cycle to fight possible feminization ? I'm more than ready to risk it but would like to be doing everything I can to avoid further complications. Losing a norwood and a half in 7 months with no stabilization has put my life on halt completely- so much so that I'm back to living in my hometown. Continuing to rent my room on another side of the country in hopes that I can solve this and get back to my old life. This is fucked.

 

[Georgie]

This is the most interesting drug I've heard of since I first started reading about ru, finasteride, dutasteride, etc 7 months ago. Crazy fast results. I would certainly be interested in a buy, assuming we can get the price to come down at least a little. Georgie if you get the free time and wouldn't mind dm'ing me some info about the side effect profile and the measure of success I'd greatly appreciate it. I don't have access to any private forums, nor do I know where to find them.

Concerning DARO and not wanting to compile every Idealforhead post in this thread - I understand it negligibly crosses the 'blood brain barrier' and so libido is unaffected if I'm correct ? What about erection quality ? Feminizing potential ? My next big concern is what are some ways to potentially combat these side effects ? Any drugs or supps or anything I can cycle to fight possible feminization ? I'm more than ready to risk it but would like to be doing everything I can to avoid further complications. Losing a norwood and a half in 7 months with no stabilization has put my life on halt completely- so much so that I'm back to living in my hometown. Continuing to rent my room on another side of the country in hopes that I can solve this and get back to my old life. This is fucked.

Well I got a quote from another supplier which is as follows;
. Product: MG-132
Price

USD 165 / 100 mg by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 100 mg

USD 450 / 1 g by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 1 g

That’s actually pretty f*****g good.

 

[Kornel]

Well I got a quote from another supplier which is as follows;
. Product: MG-132
Price

USD 165 / 100 mg by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 100 mg

USD 450 / 1 g by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 1 g

That’s actually pretty f*****g good.

Nice find. Who's that supplier?

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Well I got a quote from another supplier which is as follows;
. Product: MG-132
Price

USD 165 / 100 mg by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 100 mg

USD 450 / 1 g by courier like TNT or FedEx door to door(including the delivery fee)based on 1 g

That’s actually pretty f*****g good.

What's the dose ? Where can I read about sides ?