Densiti - make yourself an equol producer :)

[Hoppi]

We will have to agree to disagree Bryan. Personally I side with the huge number of people who agree that simply inactivating DHT in the blood stream creates fewer side effects than inhibiting 5-alpha reductase. If you have a different view, that's fine, but I believe it is unfounded, and I do not agree with you.

Additionally, I am not going to be continuing this debate with you here, mainly because I believe it is unnecessarily disrupting the flow of the thread, and I feel your point is illogical. However if you have evidence to prove what you are saying then I would be fascinated to read it.

 

[hairrific]

Me thinks Kemosabe (trusted scout Bryan) has no citation that if an Rx version of equol was developed, it would not able to stop DHT from causing hair loss and cause side effects in doing so.

Yet there are clinical trails and studies all over the freaking place that state that Equol does bind aggressively to DHT. There are just to many people studying Equol right now in progress to just sweep it under the carpet at this early date. Long term human studies are required to determine the role of equol in male pattern baldness, not enough research is available at this time.

 

[Boondock]

I appreciate that there seems to be some vague sort of science behind this particular product proposal. It sure beats 'unique proprietary growth formula' as a vote of confidence.

But I am nevertheless 99% sure that this will be the same old story.

If he sells just 1,000 of these at $30 profit on each, that's $30,000 in the bag right there.

 

[Hoppi]

I do think our time, should we have doubts, would be better spent determining the best way to get s-equol in the body, rather then hypothesizing whether or how Densiti could be a scam! lol

S-equol is amaaaazing O.O hehe

I do trust Eric however, I think he truly believes in this and is a really nice guy, and understands the way this group of ingredients sparks equol production. I also think he would be interested in making improvements to the formula if they seemed worthwhile, so I think this should be made some kind of project

 

[Boondock]

I do think our time, should we have doubts, would be better spent determining the best way to get s-equol in the body, rather then hypothesizing whether or how Densiti could be a scam! lol

S-equol is amaaaazing O.O hehe

I do trust Eric however, I think he truly believes in this and is a really nice guy, and understands the way this group of ingredients sparks equol production. I also think he would be interested in making improvements to the formula if they seemed worthwhile, so I think this should be made some kind of project

Well, good luck with it. I've just been around so long and seen so many people get burned on these kinds of things that my default stance is scepticism these days.

 

[thinincrown]

Ive never heard of Asian men who consume soy, sea weed and green tea ever making a big issue about side effects w/ this dietary combination.

While those who have consumed Finasteride and dutasteride on the other hand.....

You're completely missing the point! :shock: Asian men don't produce enough equol to reduce their (effective) levels of DHT as much as men who take finasteride. Therefore, there's no point to what you said. I repeat: if you want to suppress DHT, just take finasteride. Don't waste your time and money by trying to produce equol. That's a fool's game.

finasteride is not as harmless as you are making it out to be. If you can find a way to naturally produce equol, without altering your hormonal integrity, why not try it?

I know first hand the effects of proscar.

Have you ever taken the finasteride? I find it very careless on your part to be pushing it like street corner drug dealer.

 

[Bryan]

finasteride is not as harmless as you are making it out to be. If you can find a way to naturally produce equol, without altering your hormonal integrity, why not try it?

I know first hand the effects of proscar.

Have you ever taken the finasteride? I find it very careless on your part to be pushing it like street corner drug dealer.

You're STILL missing the point! I'm not necessarily saying that taking finasteride is harmless; I'm saying that if you want to do the (possibly risky) procedure of suppressing your DHT, you better do it with the proven technique of using a proven 5a-reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride. Finding a way to produce equol naturally isn't going to work anywhere nearly as well. It'll be safer, to be sure, but that's only because it can't lower/block DHT to the extent that finasteride can.

 

[thinincrown]

finasteride is not as harmless as you are making it out to be. If you can find a way to naturally produce equol, without altering your hormonal integrity, why not try it?

I know first hand the effects of proscar.

Have you ever taken the finasteride? I find it very careless on your part to be pushing it like street corner drug dealer.

You're STILL missing the point! I'm not necessarily saying that taking finasteride is harmless; I'm saying that if you want to do the (possibly risky) procedure of suppressing your DHT, you better do it with the proven technique of using a proven 5a-reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride. Finding a way to produce equol naturally isn't going to work anywhere nearly as well. It'll be safer, to be sure, but that's only because it can't lower/block DHT to the extent that finasteride can.

understood, thanks for clarifying....

 

[Hoppi]

finasteride is not as harmless as you are making it out to be. If you can find a way to naturally produce equol, without altering your hormonal integrity, why not try it?

I know first hand the effects of proscar.

Have you ever taken the finasteride? I find it very careless on your part to be pushing it like street corner drug dealer.

You're STILL missing the point! I'm not necessarily saying that taking finasteride is harmless; I'm saying that if you want to do the (possibly risky) procedure of suppressing your DHT, you better do it with the proven technique of using a proven 5a-reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride. Finding a way to produce equol naturally isn't going to work anywhere nearly as well. It'll be safer, to be sure, but that's only because it can't lower/block DHT to the extent that finasteride can.

Care to provide evidence that equol cannot lower serum DHT as far as finasteride?

In fact, forget it, I'm not continuing this. I believe you just wish to disrupt the thread. Come on Bryan you KNOW, you must know that simply inactivating DHT in the blood stream has fewer side effects than inhibiting 5-alpha reductase, you just MUST know that. This is ridiculous, any tiny scraps of research would prove it.

 

[JimmyL]

BTW Hoppi, are you about the reach the 10-week mark? Please, tell us about your experiences so far with this.

 

[Bryan]

Care to provide evidence that equol cannot lower serum DHT as far as finasteride?

The onus is on YOU to prove that it CAN do that.

 

[Boondock]

Care to provide evidence that equol cannot lower serum DHT as far as finasteride?

The onus is on YOU to prove that it CAN do that.

Indeed.

Hoppi, how can you even begin to claim judgement on these matters when you lack even a basic grasp of scientific modes of enquiry.

Saying "prove it doesn't happen" on a point of new information is absolutely crazy. As the proposer of unconventional wisdom, YOU need to lay out the proofs yourself. This is basic scientific practice.

 

[Hoppi]

I'm not the only one who understands the huge effects of equol on DHT levels and hair.

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateDensity5-10.html


Thing is though as I said in the other thread, I think what would clear everything up is a series of tests involving s-equol on male volunteers. Their DHT levels should be monitored at different doses. This could then be compared to the effects of standard equol (the combo of R and S) at the same or higher doses. This would bring us one step closer to understanding the effects of this substance.

(does anyone know if the results of such a test have already been published? - I'll get searching)

How it compares to finasteride is largely irrelevant (they work by completely different mechanisms so both are surely scientifically interesting and potentially useful), what matters more is proving it's effectiveness once and for all.


EDIT -- http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract

.... burn. hehe

 

[Boondock]

So basically soy and green tea. Gee, haven't heard that one before. :whistle:

 

[Hoppi]

Why are you fighting this?

That's completely different Boondock.


EDIT -- Another, http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100076071


"Equol (7-hydroxy-3(4'hydroxyphenyl)-chroman), the major metabolite of the phytoestrogen daidzein, specifically binds and blocks the hormonal action of 5?-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in vitro and in vivo. Equol can bind circulating free DHT and sequester it from the androgen receptor, thus altering growth and physiological hormone responses that are regulated by androgens. These data suggest a novel model to explain equol's biological properties. The significance of equol's ability to specifically bind and sequester DHT from the androgen receptor have important ramifications in health and disease and may indicate a broad and important usage for equol in the treatment and prevention of androgen-mediated pathologies of skin and hair. Thus, equol can specifically bind DHT and prevent DHT's biological actions in physiological and pathophysiological processes affecting skin and hair."

 

[mpbsux20]

I used to take 3 glasses of Soy milk and a cup of green tea everyday for 4 months.Didn't notice anything apart from increase in body fat.

The guy who makes it doesn't even bother to mention the quantity of ingredients and the mechanism by which it works to protect your follicles is rather difficult to believe.Even Green tea showed positive results when tested with male rats.When it comes to human beings,it just ain't the same.

I dont have anything against it but I dont want to waste my time and potentially put my hair on the line by experimenting with something that has not been studied nor approved.

 

[Hoppi]

People need to understand that simply drinking a bunch of soymilk and green tea is NOT the same thing.

Equol is produced from daidzein in the gut IF THE CORRECT BALANCE OF MICROFLORA AND GUT CONDITIONS IS PRESENT. If it isn't (and it is highly improbable that simply the green tea and soy combo alone would do this unless you kept it up for many years), the chances of you being an equol producer is very low.

Densiti combines green tea with 2 probiotics, and it is THIS combination of components which spark equol production in the gut.

 

[Bryan]

I'm not the only one who understands the huge effects of equol on DHT levels and hair.

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateDensity5-10.html

The only thing at that link which is even mildy interesting is the further link to the Japanese study, which tested dietary isoflavones in a group of men, and found "significant" reductions in serum DHT (although the abstract doesn't specify how "significant" it really was). The complicating factor, however, is that they also found no change in total testosterone, significant increases in SHBG, and significant decreases in free testosterone. That suggests an obvious question: was the decrease in DHT really caused by an increase in equol, or was it merely secondary to the decrease in free testosterone? Sorry, Hoppi, but there's really not much there to hang your hat on. There's nothing at that link that proves that the effect was even from equol AT ALL, much less that equol (as it's normally produced in the human body) has a "huge effect" on DHT! :laugh:

 

[thinincrown]

I'm not the only one who understands the huge effects of equol on DHT levels and hair.

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateDensity5-10.html

The only thing at that link which is even mildy interesting is the further link to the Japanese study, which tested dietary isoflavones in a group of men, and found "significant" reductions in serum DHT (although the abstract doesn't specify how "significant" it really was). The complicating factor, however, is that they also found no change in total testosterone, significant increases in SHBG, and significant decreases in free testosterone. That suggests an obvious question: was the decrease in DHT really caused by an increase in equol, or was it merely secondary to the decrease in free testosterone? Sorry, Hoppi, but there's really not much there to hang your hat on. There's nothing at that link that proves that the effect was even from equol AT ALL, much less that equol (as it's normally produced in the human body) has a "huge effect" on DHT! :laugh:

well thats a buzz kill......

 

[Hoppi]

Don't worry lakota, that's probably Bryan's entire reason for being in this thread.