Densiti - make yourself an equol producer :)

[purecontrol]

wow purecontrol well done that was really interesting, I had no idea about that thing about probiotics and pH. A very constructive, logical and thought-provoking post

My luck with Densiti so far has been mixed (I have also currently run out and awaiting my next order, as I just timed it wrong, so that sucks) and maybe I need to ensure I am giving the bacteria the right conditions to flourish.

I am thinking of approaching some supplement companies to discuss the idea of an s-equol supplement, I think it will be so powerful and important, and may blow a lot of other stuff simply out of the water. I certainly have read no evidence that contradicts this.

S-equol is bioavailable orally, readily binds to DHT in the blood stream, I believe even snatches it from androgen receptors (I might be wrong, but this is what I understand), and has been shown to have very significant effects on male pattern baldness and other androgen mediated conditions.

Why this hasn't been done is one of the strangest things I have ever come across. We need to pursue this.

Sounds great, keep on this track as it will take some time to see results. Don't let the hatters stop you from exploring the theorizing. They think pharmacuticals are the only answers LOL

 

[hairrific]

Hoppi please stop spamming this Densiti product like it is something special because if you read the label, it is just common ingredients that people can get fresher and cheaper just form the grocery store and adding them to the diet!

And please stop talking like Densiti and Equol are the same thing please! The nutritive ingredient S-Equol or equol used in studies does aggressively bind DHT and has been proven so, and cited to be of major scientific interest for prevention of male pattern baldness. the Desitii product has not been proven to bind DHT, it only hopes to help your gut produce Equol, hopes to, and no proof it will do that for non-equol producers for sure for sure dude.

Densiti does not even list the ingredients in there web site, what does that tell you?

YOU NUT HEAD!

 

[Hoppi]

I haven't actually spoken about Densiti in this thread for several pages.

At the moment we are talking about the potential use of s-equol itself (regardless of how it enters the body) in the treatment of male pattern baldness.

I am currently working on a supplement of s-equol (pure, without the r-equol as well), and if you would like to help (or if anyone else would) then you are very welcome to

 

[Jacob]

Hoppi..where do you get this "Densiti users also experience no sides"...??? I don't know of too many who are even using the product, which also requires the consumption of soy etc.

Also...some of us don't care to mess with dht too much, regardless of how it's done. See http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

 

[Hoppi]

Some more bits n bobs:

http://www.naturalequol.com/pharmacokinetics.aspx

http://www.sciencecodex.com/novel_soyba ... 59_percent


Ah and yes Jacob I'm aware of the like.. balance between androgens and estrogen in the male body. This is what I mean when I often say that s-eq is much safer or has far fewer sides than finasteride - when I say it has NO sides, I am largely basing that assumption on anecdotal and observed evidence, rather than studies.

One would imagine that taking s-eq in combination with perhaps grape seed extract would help, or a combination of things such as ashwagandha and DIM. The fact remains however that s-eq is almost without a doubt much, much safer than finasteride (despite what some people may say )


http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00787007

http://clinicaltrialsfeeds.org/clinical ... CT00962390

(safe to take up to 320mg at least, I believe pure)


http://www.naturalequol.com/faq_safety.aspx

(no safety issues observed in women (besides allergic reactions etc))

http://www.naturalequol.com/FAQ_Consumer.aspx

(no indication of safety problems for men)


http://www.naturalequol.com

(map displaying equol producers worldwide (roughly of course))

 

[rubend]

Can we have real photos of the effects of Densiti at all?

You know, I'm not calling you a lier, but I'm more than tired of reading the same crappy claims everyday with awesome products that promises a full-stop of hair loss.

I wouldn't be so enthusiast with this kind of new and natural treatments. Just see the real stuff (photos at least). But please, don't be happy at this time, that would not help you at all.

 

[Bryan]

S-equol has the ability to bind to and inactivate DHT in the blood stream, and probably even when it has already bound to hair follicles (on their androgen receptors). By doing this, it creates far fewer sides because no enzyme is being inhibited.

You keep repeating that claim over and over like a parrot, but you're unable to cite any medical references in support of it.

Densiti users also experience no sides. This is because simply "arresting" DHT in the blood stream is much better tolerated by the body.

"Polly want a crackerrrrr.."

In theory, it should also never lose effectiveness (as the body will not have the inhibition of 5ar2 to react to), as finasteride apparently does after a time.

LOL! Now you're just making sh*t up!

Equol has often been hailed as the "cure" or "holy grail" of male pattern baldness hehe

Not by me, it hasn't!

 

[Hoppi]

I quite like this one personally

http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/ ... ;70/4/1188


Oh, actually I remember that you argued with that one.. oh well I mean, I'm pretty much at the point of testing the stuff anyway, so we'll know for sure soon won't we?

 

[rubend]

I think you're a spammer. Let's see.

 

[Bryan]

I quite like this one personally

http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/ ... ;70/4/1188

You quite like the fact that you can take rats and shoot them up with a ton of equol, and get an antiandrogenic effect from it? Does that really inspire you, kemosabe? Well DUH... Let's see you do that with just the "Densiti" product!

Oh, actually I remember that you argued with that one.. oh well I mean, I'm pretty much at the point of testing the stuff anyway, so we'll know for sure soon won't we?

Can we rely on you to tell the truth about any experience you have with "Densiti", or are you so stuck on that product that you're well past that point?

 

[Boondock]

I always LOL at people who claim they have research to back up their claims, then come up with rat studies.

If rat studies meant a lot we'd all be living as hyper-healthy, Norwood1 athletes with super toned muscle staying with us to our death at age 300.

 

[Jacob]

Hoppi..you keep posting links from the sites I've posted :whistle:
And I don't think you read the Patrick Arnold article fully. Again..it doesn't matter how it's done. Don't mess with DHT too much.

 

[Hoppi]

I always LOL at people who claim they have research to back up their claims, then come up with rat studies.

If rat studies meant a lot we'd all be living as hyper-healthy, Norwood1 athletes with super toned muscle staying with us to our death at age 300.

hehe well fair enough, but as long as rat DHT is the same stuff as human DHT (and bear in mind s-eq is regarded as a powerful anti-androgen in humans too) we should be alright.

The beauty of this stuff is that in theory, the dose should be able to be increased steadily to get an increasingly bound percentage of DHT in the bloodstream, with relatively few sides compared to finasteride or dutasteride.

But, the proof of the pudding is in the eating... and soon I will be eating it! rofl

Hoppi..you keep posting links from the sites I've posted :whistle:
And I don't think you read the Patrick Arnold article fully. Again..it doesn't matter how it's done. Don't mess with DHT too much.

That as maybe, but I have reason to believe my DHT has possibly lifted of late anyway (the increased body hair). So as far as I can tell either that was a change to my body's RESPONSE to DHT, or increased DHT (more likely). With that in mind, I may be simply stripping the edge off a DHT level that was high anyway.

And dude I don't CARE lol, s-eq is comparatively very safe compared to finasteride and... I want more scalp hair and less body hair!!

I'm going for it


EDIT -- Also to be fair, as long as you take something which increases T and decreases E (resveratrol is apparently capable of increasing testosterone by up to 40%, and does this by inhibiting the aromatase pathway, grape seed extract probably does this too) then one would imagine you're covering yourself reasonably. And all those asians seem pretty much fine to me man Don't worry so much!

 

[Bryan]

The beauty of this stuff is that in theory, the dose should be able to be increased steadily to get an increasingly bound percentage of DHT in the bloodstream, with relatively few sides compared to finasteride or dutasteride.

Aside from the last part of that sentence ("with relatively few sides compared to finasteride or dutasteride"), which is nothing but pure conjecture and supposition on your part, I'd like you to clearly specify what you really expect from this "Densiti" product. Do you really think that taking such a supplement is going to get you such high levels of equol in your blood that it's going to mimic the effects of finasteride or dutasteride, or do you realize that that's nothing but the most egregious form of wishful thinking, akin to "I hope I get a new BB gun, bicycle, and sled for Christmas"?

 

[47thin]

Christ, enough already. Anything that has such a profound effect will have some side effects. To put it a nice way "love is like oxygen, you get too much you get too high, not enough and you're gonna die!" Revesetrol, or grape seed extract, 40% more T? Really? If it did, the FDA would stop sale of it, as it would be a steroid, natural or otherwise.

 

[Hoppi]

We're about to find out

 

[Hoppi]

http://www.caymanchem.com/pdfs/10010173.pdf

"(S)-equol is also a potent antagonist of dihydrotestosterone, which has important implications for prostate cancer and other androgen-mediated pathologies" (this also has a reference)


(related to making equol from daidzein and then separating S from R) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 4d96dc3181

(direct synthesis) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ol0620444

 

[rubend]

I can read in the PDF:

WARNING: This product is for laboratory research use only: not for administration to humans. Not for human or veterinary diagnostic or therapeutic use.

So it's not approved. I mean, why this guy is using that substance in Densiti if could be harmful?

Just sayin'.

 

[Hoppi]

People need to think before they post. Chemicals made in laboratories have impurities which may be harmful, and it is not their place to state whether a chemical is harmful or not to human health. They are not selling it for human consumption. Equol is produced naturally in 30% of the world's population, it has been tested by several companies with no reported side effects (I have even discussed this with one of them directly).

It's fine, trust me


(and sorry, perhaps I get too defensive of my beloved equol! rofl )

 

[hairrific]

I can read in the PDF:

WARNING: This product is for laboratory research use only: not for administration to humans. Not for human or veterinary diagnostic or therapeutic use.

So it's not approved. I mean, why this guy is using that substance in Densiti if could be harmful?

Just sayin'.

You have let HOPPI confuse you completely.
For the hundredth time, Densiti is not using equol in there products. From what I remember about the crap is it contains green tea, a probiotic, just stuff you can get from diet and common supplements. There is only one company I know of that is has nutritive s-equol for human consumption and so far it is not for sale from what I can tell , and here it is. http://www.naturalequol.com/pharmacokinetics.aspx



The significance of equol's ability to specifically bind and sequester DHT from the androgen receptor have important ramifications in health and disease and may indicate a broad and important usage for equol in the treatment of androgen-mediated pathologies. http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.abstract?cited-by=yes&legid=biolreprod;70/4/1188