Dermaroller/dermastamp/pen/derminator

[HairCook]

The people who I know that get results from laser use other medications with it, like Finasteride or just Minoxidil.

It seems legitimate, but from the pictures I see it's not in the "big two", it's kind of like a third option if the other two
options aren't working.

I think it's kind of like Minoxidil, it won't get you permanent results on it's own, it needs an anti androgen/ or some
progesterone/estrogen substance to stimulate the vellus hairs to terminal.

You understand I am not talking about LLLT, I am talking about actual laser that hurts enough to make ppl discuss using numbing creams for it?

i dont think many people use that, there is already a lack of devices for that.

 

[rclark]

You understand I am not talking about LLLT, I am talking about actual laser that hurts enough to make ppl discuss using numbing creams for it?

i dont think many people use that, there is already a lack of devices for that.

I believe you. The derma roller needle is supposed to be a minimum of 1.5 mm long to get results.

I can only get that at a few online places, that's it. I've never seen it sold at ANY store. And I've been
to a lot to get it as well.

 

[HairCook]

I believe you. The derma roller needle is supposed to be a minimum of 1.5 mm long to get results.

I can only get that at a few online places, that's it. I've never seen it sold at ANY store. And I've been
to a lot to get it as well.

You cant get the pen from amazon? I know the stamps seem to be limited to 1.5mm mostly. The pens however go up to 3mm. Honestly, I wonder how big the pen ist. The stamp was already a third of that it looked in the picture.

https://www.amazon.de/Toexy-Beauty-...F8&qid=1513331936&sr=8-11&keywords=dermastamp

Here is one up to 2mm

 

[rclark]

I did get it from Amazon.

I just couldn't get it in person, from a regular pharmacy or hair product supply store.

I do have hair regrowth from topical Progesterone. I just don't want to ruin my scalp, and not be
able to get any regrowth at all. I take other drugs, but it was when I quadrupled the Progesterone
dosage, from 0.5 percent to two percent, I actually saw gains.

I'm really new to dermarolling. I just started this week.

Now, if the dermarolling is giving me a higher terminal count, on my hairline, I will start using a stamp
as well.

I'm definitely not a young person on this board. In fact, I am even older than @Roberto_72,
hard to imagine

 

[furrydome]

Going from a Norwood three to a Norwood two is no small feat.

Do you only use the Derminator on completely bald areas, or all diffuse areas?

I live in the U.S., and RU isn't sold in Canada or Mexico, otherwise I would use that as well.

To be fair the NW2 isn't fully terminal even after 1 year of needling and then 6 months of RU, but it's a big cosmetic improvement and still getting better. Been needling from about the NW1 line to just beyond NW3, same areas every time.

You can get RU in the US. Both AnagenInc/Kane and Chemyo have 20% off right now. (Chemyo coupon CHEMYO20 until Dec 19th)

 

[HairCook]

I am actually now gonna time my lactic acid-diclofenac 4.5h before my wounding.

TNF-A important for neogenesis initiation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5378973/
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~cmchuong/2015Hairpluck.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352241016300263

NSAIDs increase TNF-A up to six hours after use:
http://www.msjonline.org/index.php/ijrms/article/view/1707

If someone has more info on the timing to help with this, let me know pls

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

I believe you. The derma roller needle is supposed to be a minimum of 1.5 mm long to get results.

I can only get that at a few online places, that's it. I've never seen it sold at ANY store. And I've been
to a lot to get it as well.

Could it be possible that 1.5 mm ends up killing your follicles? What about 2mm?

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

You cant get the pen from amazon? I know the stamps seem to be limited to 1.5mm mostly. The pens however go up to 3mm. Honestly, I wonder how big the pen ist. The stamp was already a third of that it looked in the picture.

https://www.amazon.de/Toexy-Beauty-...F8&qid=1513331936&sr=8-11&keywords=dermastamp

Here is one up to 2mm

Can 2mm damage follicles permanently?

 

[HairCook]

Could it be possible that 1.5 mm ends up killing your follicles? What about 2mm?

Unlikely. Actually I am arguing that dermstamp is not doing enough of the right damage (it is beneficial ofc)
See my thread here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...e-woundhealing-the-better-dermaroller.110565/

/edit No, not even a lasertreatment for hair removal is absolut from my knowledge. I remember a chinese minoxidil + wounding study even using 2mm or 2.5mm bi-weekly.

 

[rclark]

Could it be possible that 1.5 mm ends up killing your follicles? What about 2mm?

That's very possible. 1.5 mm is the length to your follicle.

I'm very new to this, so I really don't have the answers.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Unlikely. Actually I am arguing that dermstamp is not doing enough of the right damage (it is beneficial ofc)
See my thread here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...e-woundhealing-the-better-dermaroller.110565/

/edit No, not even a lasertreatment for hair removal is absolut from my knowledge. I remember a chinese minoxidil + wounding study even using 2mm or 2.5mm bi-weekly.

Hi HairCook, I’ll be reading the thread.
I am concerned because I got 2mm dermastamping done once - 10 min session. I feel my hair has diffused overall and dermastamping might be the reason.
Maybe I am in over my head, but I have been trying everything and my hairloss seems to have aggravated. 6 months back i was not that bad. I am trying everything and feel like its making it worse. I am worried.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

That's very possible. 1.5 mm is the length to your follicle.

I'm very new to this, so I really don't have the answers.

Hi rclark, If that is the truth I am guilty of messing with my hairs. I hope that is not true.
I was never this worried reg my hairs.FML

 

[HairCook]

Well, I advice you to consider just sticking to the big3 or just leave the nature its ways.

Considering your regimen I assume you never heard even of shedding? Pls do some reading before you do things like this.
I hope you did for the very least work clean and desinfect everything properly.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Well, I advice you to consider just sticking to the big3 or just leave the nature its ways.

Considering your regimen I assume you never heard even of shedding? Pls do some reading before you do things like this.
I hope you did for the very least work clean and desinfect everything properly.

I did not do it on my own. I got it done by a derm. He was initially using 1.5 mm dermastamp And that is what he had told me initially. I had done my research well and knew what it meant. It was only later that that he told me that he used 2.0 mm t the end of tbe process as I did not flinch even once with 1.5 mm and thought I can bear the pain of 2 mm. It was only for 10 min that’s all. And yes he used new syringe and properly cleaned everything.

 

[HairCook]

I did not do it on my own. I got it done by a derm. He was initially using 1.5 mm dermastamp And that is what he had told me initially. I had done my research well and knew what it meant. It was only later that that he told me that he used 2.0 mm t the end of tbe process as I did not flinch even once with 1.5 mm and thought I can bear the pain of 2 mm. It was only for 10 min that’s all. And yes he used new syringe and properly cleaned everything.

Trust your derm. I know people who tried 2.5mm. They moved later to 1.5 cause it hurted too much. I have never head a single time that someone actually damages his hf at all (you obv have to work clean, otherwise there is risk of infection). All studies imply positive effects.

Most likely it is either shedding or just normal hair loss, either way you lost nothing you would not lose either way. It is just a matter if it comes back.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Layerwise thick-thin-thick-thin area

Todays pic top view of vertex


Pic 4months back



3 months back before dermastamping

Trust your derm. I know people who tried 2.5mm. They moved later to 1.5 cause it hurted too much. I have never head a single time that someone actually damages his hf at all (you obv have to work clean, otherwise there is risk of infection). All studies imply positive effects.

Most likely it is either shedding or just normal hair loss, either way you lost nothing you would not lose either way. It is just a matter if it comes back.

You could be right and I hope you are.
It is very possible that I am freaked out.
But when I look at the pics they get me confused. And when I feel my hairs, I find a layer which is thick followed by next layer which is thin and so on, basically dermastamping and rolling is also done in layers. That is why it made me think that my hairs at the point where dermastamping was done got ruined.

pics above for reference.
Btw thanks for replying promptly.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Dermapen was used not dermastamp implies it must have hit 2.0 mm.

Here is layer wise image. This might vary slightly from person to person and agewise.
So at 2.0 mm you might reach dermis where HF are located.

Terminal HF are located deeply whilst vellus HF are located at shallow depth.

Given that, theoretically stimulation if vellus hairs should gale place at 2.0 mm.

But I am sceptical as traction alopecia might result in permnent damage to the HF, similary why cannot dermapen??

 

[HairCook]

View attachment 73508


But I am sceptical as traction alopecia might result in permnent damage to the HF, similary why cannot dermapen??

Because dermapen damage is followed by a strong wounding process. Androgenetic Alopecia is induced by a chronic state of inflammation that also induces fibrosis. I dont want to call it impossible, but check out the legendary campfire man, he burned his entire scalp and regrew hair he lost decades ago. Even if he damage his hf, it might even be beneficial in the long run.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Because dermapen damage is followed by a strong wounding process. Androgenetic Alopecia is induced by a chronic state of inflammation that also induces fibrosis. I dont want to call it impossible, but check out the legendary campfire man, he burned his entire scalp and regrew hair he lost decades ago. Even if he damage his hf, it might even be beneficial in the long run.

Yes, i have heard about the campfire man. Though that is a one off case.

Such a waste of life is this f*****g disease. Talking about inhabiting Mars and no goddamn cure for this.
How many people fail to live upto their potential because of this, it’s no less crippling than a physical deformity for a lot of us.

 

[HairCook]

Yes, i have heard about the campfire man. Though that is a one off case.

Such a waste of life is this f*****g disease. Talking about inhabiting Mars and no goddamn cure for this.
How many people fail to live upto their potential because of this, it’s no less crippling than a physical deformity for a lot of us.

Soon we have hopefully a proper crth2 inhibitor widely available at least. It is really annoying that we know about it since 2012 and studies are still ongoing...