Dermaroller/dermastamp/pen/derminator

[Jonnyyy]

I leave it to you. After starting with 1.5 I felt like it was a waste of time. 2mm seems more reasonable, because you get faster to the 1.5mm spot.

But currenty research shows we need to do more damage. See the woundhealing presentation hellouser posted from the recent hair congress.




I use a pen at 3mm and a stamp at 1.5mm.

3mm is for temples for neogenesis. I use 1.5 stamp for other parts I cant cover or where hair is still intact, only frontal hair though.

I dont think you can srsly damage it. What happens on wounding is the gene Lhx2 acticates which deactivates Lgr5. Lhx2=good for stem cell regeneration, Lgr5 does the cycling. Means anagen stays anagen, and other hair cant cycle anagen. I would suggest to assure that there is a pause after wounds healt out to give hair a chance to cycle into anagen. On temples you lost long before, you might not want to add extra pause, because you wanna regen the follice to give it the ability of cycling back to anagen first.

This is based on my readings. If you got other information tell me.

What kind of hair gains have you gotten?

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

For those of you who use 1.5mm or longer, do you use numbing cream?

 

[HairCook]

For those of you who use 1.5mm or longer, do you use numbing cream?

Cooling. Best is derminator where you can change the head cheaply, fresh needles hurt less / not at all.

 

[HairCook]

What kind of hair gains have you gotten?

I have started a month ago. So far not much. some pigmented venus, but might also be from other stuff. I am still working out my regimen. I wanna fix my hair loss and then move on with life fast. I base everything I write usually on RPs I read and success I have seen where proper picture proof was available.

My licl gonna arrive hopefully this week.

 

[joni106]

Haircook,
First of all, I'm very impressed by the knowledge you have. Well done.
I wanted to know what you think about the combination of microneedling and lllt, do you think there is potential for success if I add lllt to the process of wounding and recovery?
I use also minoxidil, ru, nizoral shampoo, castor oil and other oils, massages.
Norwood 6-7 sparse and scattered
thanks bro

 

[joni106]

I'd love to know what others also think about the combination of lllt and microneedling

 

[HairCook]

You should do some reading on LLLT. The avg devices out there are a scam.

There are some studies out there for other wave lenghts. Blue light for example increases NO which is beneficial for hair, instead you could also just get a nitoglycerin creme, which would do the same more effectively.

You could try googling on which wave lenghts have been researched for hair and then make a custom laser helm yourself.
This however, is going to be unrelated to wounding. I dont think LLLT would related to wounding much.

If you got money you should try to get a crth2/gpr44 inhibitor like setipiprant because it has been shown that is inhibits neogenesis of the hair follicle http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15361753

 

[joni106]

You should do some reading on LLLT. The avg devices out there are a scam.

There are some studies out there for other wave lenghts. Blue light for example increases NO which is beneficial for hair, instead you could also just get a nitoglycerin creme, which would do the same more effectively.

You could try googling on which wave lenghts have been researched for hair and then make a custom laser helm yourself.
This however, is going to be unrelated to wounding. I dont think LLLT would related to wounding much.

If you got money you should try to get a crth2/gpr44 inhibitor like setipiprant because it has been shown that is inhibits neogenesis of the hair follicle http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15361753

First of all, thank you.
I thought that lllt could further stimulate the blood and follicles as a result of the process of wounding and recovery.
I read a little about a laser combo - RESTORE or IGROWE.
Because I am in advanced stage baldness and started treating late I am looking for something with potential that will help create new follicles (with wounding ).
I think RU and Nizoral I started a few months ago are fighting DHT.

 

[furrydome]

Get lithium chloride and apply it only after wounding. (10mg per temple.).

HairCook - How do you feel about this: (from https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nic-hedgehog-review.94131/page-3#post-1338083)

GSK3 positively phosphorylates TSC2, which inhibits mTORC1 activity. I guess people should be cautious about overusing GSK3beta inhibitors like LiCl and VPA for this reason -- it might backfire

Also, LiCl stung so bad I had to stop. Like 10x the pain of the actual needles (derminator, 1.5mm). I can handle the pain, but don't want to end up with a dermatitis.

 

[HairCook]

HairCook - How do you feel about this: (from https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nic-hedgehog-review.94131/page-3#post-1338083)


Also, LiCl stung so bad I had to stop. Like 10x the pain of the actual needles (derminator, 1.5mm). I can handle the pain, but don't want to end up with a dermatitis - got that before from a harsh vehicle for RU.

Thats why you only use it after wounding, and dont overuse it. During wounding is just the best timing. Wounding is like gambling, and licl being your joker to increase the % of getting the old white fizzle/hairless desert to turn into a big fat pigmented terminal.

Ofc it stings, fresh needles are not supposed to hurt, while rubbing salt into your wounds is suppposed to hurt

 

[HairCook]

First of all, thank you.
I thought that lllt could further stimulate the blood and follicles as a result of the process of wounding and recovery.
I read a little about a laser combo - RESTORE or IGROWE.
Because I am in advanced stage baldness and started treating late I am looking for something with potential that will help create new follicles (with wounding ).
I think RU and Nizoral I started a few months ago are fighting DHT.

If you are new to this, I think this is a good bible for you: http://swisstemples.com/

 

[furrydome]

Thats why you only use it after wounding, and dont overuse it. During wounding is just the best timing. Wounding is like gambling, and licl being your joker to increase the % of getting the old white fizzle/hairless desert to turn into a big fat pigmented terminal.

Ofc it stings, fresh needles are not supposed to hurt, while rubbing salt into your wounds is suppposed to hurt

That doesn't really answer the question though - can overusing LiCl backfire? (see https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nic-hedgehog-review.94131/page-3#post-1338083) How would we even know if we're overusing it?

How certain are we of *any* of this?

 

[HairCook]

That doesn't really answer the question though - can overusing LiCl backfire? (see https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nic-hedgehog-review.94131/page-3#post-1338083) How would we even know if we're overusing it?

How certain are we of *any* of this?

Ppl do it since the pg protocoll was induced by swiss. On private forums ppl play successfully around with higher dosing.

Lithium is also used for bipolar disorders at way higher dosage. There is somewhere a sweet spot.

With the 10mg (only after wounding) per temple you should be on the safe side of life.

I am not trying to sell you anything. Read and then make your own opinion.

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

Dermapan/derminator users:
After having another read through this thread, I'm considering moving onto it from my dermastamp.
I see that instead stamping, you'd drag it along the scalp (as you would with a roller). Do you find that with diffuse thinning, it can actually catch the existing hair and pull it off in the process?
I'd like to step up the depth of needle to 1.5-2mm, but as Hair Cook pointed out, this is better done with derminator/dermapen with fresh needles than a manual dermastamp...

 

[furrydome]

Dermapan/derminator users:
After having another read through this thread, I'm considering moving onto it from my dermastamp.
I see that instead stamping, you'd drag it along the scalp (as you would with a roller). Do you find that with diffuse thinning, it can actually catch the existing hair and pull it off in the process?

Not in my experience. The derminator pokes you so quickly you'd have to be dragging the thing really fast to catch any hairs. It does however get stuck in the scalp, especially at the higher depths.

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

Any opinions as to whether Dermapen or Derminator is preferable?
I intend to use it on my face for scar reduction as well.

 

[HairCook]

Any opinions as to whether Dermapen or Derminator is preferable?
I intend to use it on my face for scar reduction as well.

Not sure if there is a trick, but I think the dermaroller is for the face and any soft tissue where the dermapen/stamp is hard to apply. The derminator might do the trick, not sure...

 

[furrydome]

Not sure if there is a trick, but I think the dermaroller is for the face and any soft tissue where the dermapen/stamp is hard to apply. The derminator might do the trick, not sure...

Dermaroller on the face sounds like a horrible idea... for the noobs, this is how it works:

Shreds your skin, causes more damage. Doing that on your face? f*** that. I say f*** that on the scalp too, but most people do it anyway for some reason.

 

[furrydome]

Any opinions as to whether Dermapen or Derminator is preferable?
I intend to use it on my face for scar reduction as well.

Do your own research, but from what I know the authentic Dermapen is a very expensive ($1000+) device used by professionals, while the Derminator is a much cheaper ($200) consumer device.

Ultimately it's about price and needle quality. You don't want something so cheap that the needles end up causing damage. Supposedly this happens with the chinese ones on ebay. It's been a while but I was convinced that the Derminator's needles were of sufficient quality and they're cheap enough to replace often.

Just don't get a roller and end up with skin like this: (from the Derminator manufacturer's website)

 

[HairCook]

Yeah, I am not a fan of it either. But I tried it myself and the stamp was no possible to apply. I saw a lot of woman doing on their face, so I assume if you do it right it is ok. I hate the dermaroller at this point. I once scratched myself with 0.3 and got a red bump for months.