Detumescence Therapy of Human Scalp for Natural Hair Regrowth

[Jacob]

It doesn't matter if it's free. If it cost $1000 and actually had real proof of doing anything then it'd make sense to get a bit interested.

 

[zombiehair]

Interesting link princessrambo I missed that one in the dermaroller thread.
somthing that caught my attention was the following

"It is a common occurrence but is rarely reported particularly when it happens as an occupational hazard. An example usually cited of such an occupation related development is the localized hypertrichosis caused by friction and observed on the shoulders of some sack bearers and the necks of float bearers"

I was employed as a postman for a few years and I do have a patch of hair on my left shoulder the shoulder that took the weight of the mailbag and not on my right.
Interesting to note I havent been employed as a postman for over 10 years now but I still have a patch of hair on my left shoulder to this day.
Just had a look a minute ago.

coincidence ?

 

[koolaidshade]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing, I think it always comes down to growth factors and wnt, everything points that way.

Local friction -> inflammation -> wnt,
derma rolling -> inflammation -> wnt
fgf9 timed perfectly after wounding -> wnt feedback loop -> hair neo genesis
dht ultimately shut down wnt through dkk1 -> hair loss.

Anything that increases wnt in follicle has shown to increase hair growth. There is some merit to massaging causing hair growth after all but I believe it's not caused by increased blood flow, increasing oxygen supply, etc (though they may have some merits), but ultimately it seems like if the process doesn't lead to increase in wnt, then there is no hair growth.

so would this wounding have to be done on a regular basis, or will the hairs grown by this process fall out after this treatment is stopped?

 

[ganonford]

My father is a very, very bald guy, just as the rest of his eight brothers. I look exactly like he did when he was young (though his Androgenetic Alopecia started to manifest untill he was in his forties, while I'm much younger). What I am trying to say is that I am obviosly doom to get as bald as him. Right now, I am a diffuse thinner. My problem is only on the frontal area of my scalp. My crown is still intact, but I know it will get bad in time (just like my dad). Anyway, I'm like a clone of my damn father, but the thing is, right now I don't have any trouble with my crown, and my skin there is loose. Now, I just checked my father's scalp. Unlike mine, his crown is very tight. He has a bald crown, I don't. He has a very tight skin on his crown, I don't.

Just an observation.

 

[Armando Jose]

interesting observation, tight scalp * problems
loose scalp * good condition

probably massage avoid tight scalp


is thight scalp a type of fibrosis?
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...Study-Thoughts-comments?p=1139617#post1139617

 

[benjt]

No, tight scalp is a consequence of fibrosis.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateMassageStimulateHairGrowth9-13.html

Turns out there are other studies reporting a positive effect of physical stimulation for hair growth. And here comes the interesting part:

The upregulated genes included hair growth genes such as VEGF, WNT, BMP, and PDGF, and the downregulated genes included hair-removing genes such as IL-6 and TNF.

 

[talmoode]

how do you determine how tight or loose your scalp is? I mean I am a diffuse thinner and my scalp all over seems very soft and thin. Can anyone tell me how to tell what's tight or loose? cheers

 

[benjt]

Haha, sucks Nah, just kidding. Can't tell you how to determine that. I can however tell the difference on my scalp between bald and non-bald areas in terms of skin tightness.

 

[RisingFist]

So have you figured out if bald scalps are actually thinner or thicker? We can conclude it is at least tighter, but this study was talking about reducing scalp thickness and yet other studies state that bald scalps actually become thinner plus losing BAT.

 

[benjt]

Skin tissue (counting epidermis, dermis and subcutis here) very likely becomes thinner as balding progresses. This was shown by studies, is at hindsight given the loss of BAT, and more or less confirmed by my own caliometric photo which shows leakage of more heat in male pattern baldness-afflicted areas.

Make no mistake though, I'm only talking about the scalp tissue here. The study that you cited and which this thread is about speaks about "grease" being "trapped", thus leading to dome shape of male pattern baldness struck heads. This may or may not be true, but many studies have noticed how head shape changes in male pattern baldness patients.

If we combine those two findings - male pattern baldness heads gain in height, and tissue actually gets thinner - something else has to be growing. This can be the aforementioned "grease" (I hate it when scientists are being unscientific by being unprecise). I came up with an alternative, equally unconfirmed theory: the galea. In male pattern baldness, we have constantly elevated PGD2 levels. PGD in muscles leads to swelling. If we assume that PGD2 spreads to the galea, it is completely possible that the galea is swollen - even though it has nothing to do with male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia.

This is just a theory. Just like the grease theory or the scalp growth theory. All of them are unfortunately equally unconfirmed. However, something has to be growing. The skin tissue itself is probably losing in size, but tightening/hardening. Maybe subcutis shrinks, and dermis grows a bit, but subcutis shrinks more than dermis grows.


Either way, the massages have definitely helped loosen up my scalp, and I will continue doing them for a couple of months.

 

[nextlevel]

What if instead of massaging with fingers by pressing down, you stand on your head for about 3 minutes, this way you can apply more pressure to the scalp thus flattening the head shape a little more ?

 

[selfaware]

What if instead of massaging with fingers by pressing down, you stand on your head for about 3 minutes, this way you can apply more pressure to the scalp thus flattening the head shape a little more ?

ohh...ha ha.....THAT's an interesting idea. Fits right in with the send-blood-to-head thing, which quite a few people swear by. Usually done by a "bend over stretch"...simply fold yourself over and hang head/shoulders loosely down by knees. This is actually a great general stretch, as well as a part of a breathing-exercise which breaks up and eliminates old neurotic muscle-patterns from tension/anxiety. The people who advocate the hanging-over for hair growth are suggesting 4 minutes. Wow....i can manage about a minute...lol...

So this standing-on-head thing....huh....gives the blood-increase AND a physical flattening effect......interesting....

 

[uncomfortable man]

We must be all out of ideas if were revisiting head massaging as a viable means to get hair back. SMFH until I get dizzy from all this BS.

 

[squeegee]

Why don't you guys meet up and suck each others dick? You 2 have a lot in common.:grouphug::gay:

 

[princessRambo]

Seriously, I don't see the use pessimism, the user who started this thread has posted a study showing results, good ones at that, even better than your so call FDA blablabla. There is a lot scientific theories supported by studies in this thread, the studies people are posting here and elsewhere are out there, conducted by professional researchers with phds in the field. Between, benjt didn't even say it works, he is just trying to gauge what people thing about the science, if any, behind it. I personally do not like the design of this study nor some of the claim the author made, but that's not the point, thread are for discussing stuff, he (benjt) didn't ask anyone to try it, nor did he say it works. The dermaroller and wounding theory discussed here and in the dermaroller thread were done by the gods of hair loss research, cots, garza, etc... What do y'all have to show for with your so call FDA approved products? Why keep popping every once in a while in a thread trying to sound funny and almighty at the same time and branding your forum registration date or hair loss history as some kind of badge of honor? Can't you just ignore and avoid these threads instead, it will make everything so much easier for everyone. This is called the experimental section of the forum as I recall, not the FDA approved section.

 

[odalbak]

They won't leave this thread since it gives them that minute of symbolic power and sense that they're higher than us. What I'd like to see from them instead is more intelligent skepticism. Real arguments as opposed to sterile cynical sarcasms. They're like the two old guys in the Muppet show. I think we should simply ignore their posts.

I don't understand why they don't give more credit to the hypothesis of skull growth. My scalp feels thinner and harder than anywhere else on my body and I can't imagine it's actually thicker and giving its shape to the top of my head. My head is shaped like the sugar mountain in Rio, and I noticed that like 5 years ago. I had started practicing yoga and doing the headstand position. I stopped doing this central posture of yoga culture because my skull was not flat and pressing my whole weight on it felt too painful. I was also less stable. But I thought I always had this head shape and didn't think male pattern baldness could be involved in it.

 

[benjt]

They won't leave this thread since it gives them that minute of symbolic power and sense that they're higher than us. What I'd like to see from them instead is more intelligent skepticism. Real arguments as opposed to sterile cynical sarcasms. They're like the two old guys in the Muppet show. I think we should simply ignore their posts.

The problem with Fred is that he gives out wrong info to the "new hairloss sufferers" which he says he cares so deeply about.

I don't understand why they don't give more credit to the hypothesis of skull growth. My scalp feels thinner and harder than anywhere else on my body and I can't imagine it's actually thicker and giving its shape to the top of my head. My head is shaped like the sugar mountain in Rio, and I noticed that like 5 years ago. I had started practicing yoga and doing the headstand position. I stopped doing this central posture of yoga culture because my skull was not flat and pressing my whole weight on it felt too painful. I was also less stable. But I thought I always had this head shape and didn't think male pattern baldness could be involved in it.

I can't say why scientists don't, but then again, there are many topics which I would like to have primary-researched by knowledgable people. Often, even with scientists, it's a matter of plausability. When you develop a new theory, it needs to seem plausible to yourself to actually do research on it (otherwise science would just blindly strive in random directions which would only turn up useful results by accidents). Androgens potentially being involved in skull growth is, or so I'd guess, nothing that would "pop to the mind" of dermatologists.

I can give you some reasons though why I personally guess that skull growth is unlikely (not impossibly!) at fault here:

• We know several modes of actions which already confirmedly kill off follicles (dermal fibrosis, as shown by the cross sections posted recently by squeegee) and prevent re-entering of the anagen phase (PGD2 levels, which by the way also lead to fibrosis). In my opinion, there is no possible connection with skull growth here. It will with all likelihood have no effect on PGD2 levels, so we have no confirmed (or otherwise reasonable) connection between (a) the proposed mediator, skull growth, on the one hand, and the (b) confirmed effects on hair loss on the other.
• Tissue usually has no problem whatsoever with growing skull. In the case of hair loss, I can give two reasons, the second one being specific to scalp hair areas:
  (1) If bone grows, tissue stretches; tissue stretching (and thus small fissures) has been confirmed to grow new tissue exactly where the fissure happens
  (2) BAT is created during anagen "on demand" by the anagen-entering follicles. So even if skull expansion would damage BAT in some way or another and make its density too low (or whatever else the effect might be here), in the next anagen phase the follicle would recreate BAT anyway, in a "non-stretched" (or whatever property would apply here) way.

You see, it is just not likely in my opnion. Then again, my understanding is limited, but I guess my points are more or less reasonable, though I might be missing some potential course of action of skull growth here which we simply don't know about.

Nonetheless, one high quality study doing skull bone measurements of statistically relevant numbers of individuals (in both bald on non-bald groups) would be very useful. The only source we have implying this thing is a hypothesis paper with no confirmation of the hypothesis.

 

[benjt]

And it will be harder for you since you will also realise you lost so much time of your youth on those forums pointlessly debating, you'll never get that time back.

Then take your own advise and stop pointlessly commenting. Guess what, it is our own choice if we want to debate here and spend the time here or not.

It's the same with the wrong info you give on minoxidil, with your reason - as stated by you - being for the sake of people new to these forums, you deny them information.

You should understand that people can think for themselves and make their own decisions. But hey, maybe people in Belgium aren't brought up to think for themselves, who knows. This would explain a lot of the bullsh*t coming from you.

 

[mikka]

ive been a lurker on the forums for a long time, i had no intention on posting anything because of all the know it alls who have no open mind and are only interested in scientific proof of treatments and what not, you people piss me off,

i have been doing a rather hard pressure massage every second day for 15 minutes for the last 4 months and i can tell you for a fact it is regrowing my hair! nearly all of my veluos hair on my shiny skin scalp have turned into dark hairs and are slowly growing,
and it feels amazing to look into the mirror now and see myself looking younger everyday, ive had the tears of joy flowing a couple of times.

i just use my hands before i have a shower - 5 minutes running my fingers from front to back of my head applying alot of pressure on my finger tips,
5 minutes applying pressure moving my scalp around loosening it up,
and 5 minutes applying pressure with my palms doing circles on my head
this leaves my scalp rather sore and have had to stop for a week a couple of times

it works i dont care if if the trolls on here say otherwise im only posting for the lurkers and people who will actually be open minded and give it a go and wish the best of luck to you guys

 

[bushbush]

i had no intention on posting anything because of all the know it alls who have no open mind and are only interested in scientific proof of treatments and what not, you people piss me off,

Science pisses you off?