Detumescence Therapy of Human Scalp for Natural Hair Regrowth

[DesperateOne]

Seriously, I don't see the use pessimism, the user who started this thread has posted a study showing results, good ones at that, even better than your so call FDA blablabla. There is a lot scientific theories supported by studies in this thread, the studies people are posting here and elsewhere are out there, conducted by professional researchers with phds in the field. Between, benjt didn't even say it works, he is just trying to gauge what people thing about the science, if any, behind it. I personally do not like the design of this study nor some of the claim the author made, but that's not the point, thread are for discussing stuff, he (benjt) didn't ask anyone to try it, nor did he say it works. The dermaroller and wounding theory discussed here and in the dermaroller thread were done by the gods of hair loss research, cots, garza, etc... What do y'all have to show for with your so call FDA approved products? Why keep popping every once in a while in a thread trying to sound funny and almighty at the same time and branding your forum registration date or hair loss history as some kind of badge of honor? Can't you just ignore and avoid these threads instead, it will make everything so much easier for everyone. This is called the experimental section of the forum as I recall, not the FDA approved section.

Just do like I do, every time I see Fred post I report him and give him negative reputation haha.

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Then take your own advise and stop pointlessly commenting. Guess what, it is our own choice if we want to debate here and spend the time here or not.

It's the same with the wrong info you give on minoxidil, with your reason - as stated by you - being for the sake of people new to these forums, you deny them information.

You should understand that people can think for themselves and make their own decisions. But hey, maybe people in Belgium aren't brought up to think for themselves, who knows. This would explain a lot of the bullsh*t coming from you.

Hahaha, that was funny but actually it may be true.

 

[squeegee]

Well tell Follica and the other facilities to stop their research, the cure has been found: massaging your scalp.

FredThePessimistic LOL.. we got the message Fred.. Massasing won't reverse male pattern baldness but could be a good add-on. Having extra blood flowing up there is nothing but positive. Stop being ridiculous Fred. You are smarter than that. Are going through life with this stupid attitude?

 

[DesperateOne]

ive been a lurker on the forums for a long time, i had no intention on posting anything because of all the know it alls who have no open mind and are only interested in scientific proof of treatments and what not, you people piss me off,

i have been doing a rather hard pressure massage every second day for 15 minutes for the last 4 months and i can tell you for a fact it is regrowing my hair! nearly all of my veluos hair on my shiny skin scalp have turned into dark hairs and are slowly growing,
and it feels amazing to look into the mirror now and see myself looking younger everyday, ive had the tears of joy flowing a couple of times.

i just use my hands before i have a shower - 5 minutes running my fingers from front to back of my head applying alot of pressure on my finger tips,
5 minutes applying pressure moving my scalp around loosening it up,
and 5 minutes applying pressure with my palms doing circles on my head
this leaves my scalp rather sore and have had to stop for a week a couple of times

it works i dont care if if the trolls on here say otherwise im only posting for the lurkers and people who will actually be open minded and give it a go and wish the best of luck to you guys

It's not about having an open mind. This is the internet and as such people will tell whatever ****ing lie they please. So we ask for scientific proof, even if it just proof of concept back by studies that we can at least see it points in the right direction. For all we know, you might be Fred using another username, we have no choice but to go with science. So take you bull**** somewhere else.

 

[Armando Jose]

ive been a lurker on the forums for a long time, i had no intention on posting anything because of all the know it alls who have no open mind and are only interested in scientific proof of treatments and what not, you people piss me off,

i have been doing a rather hard pressure massage every second day for 15 minutes for the last 4 months and i can tell you for a fact it is regrowing my hair! nearly all of my veluos hair on my shiny skin scalp have turned into dark hairs and are slowly growing,
and it feels amazing to look into the mirror now and see myself looking younger everyday, ive had the tears of joy flowing a couple of times.

i just use my hands before i have a shower - 5 minutes running my fingers from front to back of my head applying alot of pressure on my finger tips,
5 minutes applying pressure moving my scalp around loosening it up,
and 5 minutes applying pressure with my palms doing circles on my head
this leaves my scalp rather sore and have had to stop for a week a couple of times

it works i dont care if if the trolls on here say otherwise im only posting for the lurkers and people who will actually be open minded and give it a go and wish the best of luck to you guys

Congratulations
I imagine that you hairloss is recent
hand massage mobilize hardened sebum inside scalp and acording to my theory it is useful to healthy hair.

 

[odalbak]

we have no choice but to go with science. So take you bull**** somewhere else.

If someone had posted a positive experience with dermarolling + minoxidil just a year ago you could have written the same comment. Now with your epistemological principle of "out of science there's nothing true", how on earth would an Indian research team even have the idea of conducting a research on dermarolling?

I can give you some reasons though why I personally guess that skull growth is unlikely (not impossibly!) at fault here:
• We know several modes of actions which already confirmedly kill off follicles (dermal fibrosis, as shown by the cross sections posted recently by squeegee) and prevent re-entering of the anagen phase (PGD2 levels, which by the way also lead to fibrosis).
• Tissue usually has no problem whatsoever with growing skull.

Man, I wish you were right. But I'm very skeptical.

1. my direct observation: my head is very much like the type they describe, but it definitely doesn't feel like my scalp is thicker, just the opposite, and i can feel my skull right under my skin and i can tell you, it's very close to my fingers. No amount of skin, hardened or soft, could create such a sugar mountain kind of shape. Either my skull was like that after puberty and before male pattern baldness became noticeable, or skull expansion did happen because of excessive local androgens.

2. why couldn't fibrosis and skull expansion happen together?

3. skull expansion could happen because of excessive androgens and still not be the cause of male pattern baldness, or could be a secondary factor.


I've started to look at the skull shape of bald guys everywhere, and the skull shape of non male pattern baldness guys who shave their hair. So far (but it's only two days), my observation is confirming what the study say regarding the shape (not its cause): bald guys do have a different skull. Considering this, and the others consequences that have been found, I find it hard now to see male pattern baldness as just a cosmetic detail. My head:




I've enquired a bit about bone expansion. Its very possibility after puberty. Some say that after calcification bones can't expand. Anyone have knowledge about this question?

 

[bushbush]

Hair loss has nothing to do with the shape of your skull. This is more like an old wives tale.

 

[mikka]

no science doesnt piss me off?
im all for the current approved treatments and the work currently being done,
i was talking about you dickheads who shut down ideas cause theres no proof
im not claiming to have the cure or anything like that im just saying that the massaging ive been doing is making my hair grow'
if my post helps a couple of readers thats good, thats how i got onto massage but everybody shut down the guy who was posting about it.
anyway not posting here again, hopefully a few of you guys try it out and have success

best of luck to all of you

 

[ganonford]

anyway not posting here again, hopefully a few of you guys try it out and have success

Come on man, don't go away, we're all balding brothers in despair...

 

[RisingFist]

Come on man, don't go away, we're all balding brothers in despair...

can't blame him. He made one post and someone already told him to get lost. Anyways, thanks for your update mikka. Hope more people post results.

 

[RisingFist]

hahaahahahahhahahhaahah!!!!!!

squeegee you're such a little bi.tch. Even when things subside, your bypolar *** keeps flaming. I hope you get what you deserve in life.

 

[benjt]

@Fred: You are not even worth to be flamed. You are whiny and completely resistant to logical reasoning; cf. threads on minoxidil. You still haven't answered my question there. The only time I "flame" you is when you deny new people showing up here information "for their own good". That is just irresponsible, and frankly I have no idea what your real intention is.

@the others: We might have a problem here relating to the validity of the study. I had tried to contact the lead author (and actually, only author - which is very rare) of the publication, asking for further evaluation data and maybe photos. That was shortly after I opened this thread. To date, I haven't gotten any reply. Also, his contact address was a Google Mail address instead of a work address, which is rather unusual too, but hey. My biggest concern, though, is OMICS Publishing, which seems to be highly fraudulent. It seems to be the case that often, no peer review is applied. This means that anybody can publish complete BS there. On the other hand, young scientists are invited to publish valid research there to establish academic validity for these frauds.

This can mean that either the study this thread is based on is complete bullshıt, or it is quality work and a young scientist has been fooled. Can't say which case it is.

@odalbak: Two important things worth noting here.
1) Even if skull expansion happens, this does not mean it is causally related to hair loss. These two things can happen for the same reason but still not influence each other. As we have not come up with any possible course of action for influence here, I consider this to likely be the case (if skull expansion actually happens).
2) The whole skull expansion thing is only based on a hypothesis paper - this cannot be stressed enough. There is no in-depth study, so we do not know if skull expansion or a dome-shaped skull occurs more often in male pattern baldness patients with statistical significance. The problem is that with male pattern baldness it is just much easier to notice such a skull shape.

The whole effect of these massages - if there is any - could also be based on friction and bloodflow increase, thus having nothing to do with skull shape, grease, or whatever.

Does anyone maybe have some old skull x-ray photos and can get new ones for comparison? The whole theory should be very easy to verify (or falsify) if we can find a few male pattern baldness sufferers with old x-rays.

 

[bushbush]

This can mean that either the study this thread is based on is complete bullshıt

Most likely.

 

[ganonford]

Are there any reasonable people left besides UCman on this forum? You can flame me all you want but at the end of the day, you will continue to lose your hair, despite all your fancy debates about FGF9 receptors or whatever. Reality always catches up and wins.

I know this may not work at all, and the same goes for the dermaroller. I know this is not the first time that a "breakthrough" treatment appears out of nowhere and leads to nowhere. But I have been on minoxidil for years. I don't know if it is working or not (I don't think it is), but even if it is, it is just not enough. I tried finasteride and dutasteride. I tried many different doses, and my body can't just take it. I can't even tolerate RU. People like me are already screwed and don't have anything else to lose trying things like these.

 

[bushbush]

People like me are already screwed and don't have anything else to lose trying things like these.

That attitude is why the snake oil industry thrives. By all means be open to try things, but look for evidence and be objective. This 'study' is not well supported, it is more of an unsubstantiated essay.

 

[ganonford]

That attitude is why the snake oil industry thrives. By all means be open to try things, but look for evidence and be objective. This 'study' is not well supported, it is more of an unsubstantiated essay.

You are wrong. It is not like I go around blindly trying everything that pop up out of nowhere like a tool. I am just interested in things that have at least a bit of "science" behind them. I need to know how something works to evaluate if I will try it or not. Don't go around generalizing, neither this nor the dermaroller will help the snake oil industry in any way. Just read all the theory behind the dermaroller. Even if in the end it leads us nowhere, you just can't deny that at lesat it makes sense.

 

[benjt]

While I agree on that it is not a good paper by all means, it provides a very good model for explaining why male pattern baldness happens in that pattern. It is the first to offer a more or less reasonable model here.

Also, the treatment is completely free. And while massage may have no impact on skull shape whatsoever, it may have impact due to friction-induced hair growth (which has been proven multiple times), blood flow increase (which has some arguments speaking for it) and maybe eben ripping apart fibrotic tissue (also a proven fact). Additionally, it may increase absorption of topicals.

But after all, it's free, so I can see no snakeoil industry here, as there is no money to be earned. Gonna keep trying this as there are no side effects and I can do it while watching TV, so I even don't lose any time.

 

[bushbush]

You are wrong. It is not like I go around blindly trying everything that pop up out of nowhere like a tool. I am just interested in things that have at least a bit of "science" behind them. I need to know how something works to evaluate if I will try it or not. Don't go around generalizing, neither this nor the dermaroller will help the snake oil industry in any way. Just read all the theory behind the dermaroller. Even if in the end it leads us nowhere, you just can't deny that at lesat it makes sense.

I wasn't referring to the dermaroller topic. There IS some rationale behind dermarolling.
Detumescence therapy (a fancy term for 'rubbing your head') however, to alter the shape of your skull and regrow your hair, does not make sense. The molecular mechanisms underpinning androgenetic alopecia are being revealed in ever greater detail. We have good existing models of what causes hair loss. To suggest that (like this study does, crucially - without backing up their claims with science) people lose their hair because, and I quote: 'the shape of an egghead is always in dome shape', and the build up of grease - is ridiculous.

 

[odalbak]

@odalbak: Two important things worth noting here.
1) Even if skull expansion happens, this does not mean it is causally related to hair loss. These two things can happen for the same reason but still not influence each other. As we have not come up with any possible course of action for influence here, I consider this to likely be the case (if skull expansion actually happens).

Sure. That's what I said in my post.

2) The whole skull expansion thing is only based on a hypothesis paper - this cannot be stressed enough. There is no in-depth study, so we do not know if skull expansion or a dome-shaped skull occurs more often in male pattern baldness patients with statistical significance. The problem is that with male pattern baldness it is just much easier to notice such a skull shape.

You know what, I'm looking at shaved head shapes (male pattern baldness and no male pattern baldness) and I'm not sure this idea of a different head shape is really true. Matt Damon, when shaved, for instance has all his hair and is shaped a bit like me on top. Same thing with David Beckham.

 

[benjt]

I am sure you are going to explain to us in just a moment how this statement couldn't be further from the truth with scalp massages.

 

[ganonford]

People always say about those obscure home-made treatments: "you have nothing to lose trying them". That statement couldn't be further from the truth.

Why?, I don't think everyone should just jump straight into "experimental" treatments. But what about someone like me?, I already tried everything there is, so what do I lose?, time?, I lost all the time and hair I had years before. Money?, this treatments are cheap as hell, and I don't think we're making rich any obscure and shady company. Health?, if this could be dangerous I would not be doing it. Will I be dissapointed when, as you said, reallity catch up with me?, yeah well, I don't care about that.

So, why am I so further from the truth?, should I go back and try finasteride for the 10th time under a different dose?.

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I really don't understand you Fred... I mean, I know you don't think this may work. Fine, we get it. But sometimes (specially in the dermaroller thread), you sound almost ike you want us to fail, like if that would make you happy or something...

What's the problem with us experimenting?...

So, just tell me, do you really just want us to say "fine, that's it, this does not work, close this thread" or what?, I get what these people are trying to achieve, but what are you really doing ion here?.

And don't give me that crap about confusing newbies or something like that with "fake" info, as if some of them get caught in here, it is their fault. This is not a place for them to begin with.