Discussion on the new Revivogen Study

[Administrator]

Simple English Version of this Study

Study Conductor:
This study was commissioned by Advanced Skin and Hair and conducted by an independent laboratory, BIOalternatives (http://www.bioalternatives.com) that specializes in efficacy testing for pharmaceutical, nutracutical and cosmecuitcal products. "BIOalternatives is a service company offering cell-based assays to support drug and healthcare product development. With more than 10 years of experience, BIOalternatives provides customized informative biological solutions to >200 companies through 16 countries all over the world."

Test Methods
BIOalternatives has developed a unique test to measure the effects of any compound on Testosterone metabolism in living human skin tissue (reconstructed human epidermis) . The living skin tissues are given equal doses of Testosterone which under normal metabolism is converted to DHT and other androgens. The amount of DHT produced by the test tissue is measured for the contorl and all compounds being tested for comparison. Each compound is tested on three separate tissues to assure the tests validity.

Results
The control is allowed to metabolize Testosterone without any interference so it produces DHT at the maximum rate (100%).
Topical application of Finastride which is a known inhibitor of 5AR reduced DHT production by 67% compared to control.
Topical application of Dutastride which is also a known inhibitor of 5AR was tested at two concentrations and reduced DHT production by 80% compared to control at the lower concentration (the same concentration as Finastride) and 86% compared to control at the higher concentration.
Topical application of an equivalent amount of Revivogen Scalp Therapy reduced DHT production by 90% compared to control which is higher than Finastride and Dutastride (both concentrations).Revivogen scalp therapy also reduced the production of other Testosterone metabolites significantly.

Conclusion
Revivogen Scalp Therapy strongly reduced the production of DHT (by 90% compared to control)

 

[Administrator]

Here are the responses from the Revivogen folks regarding my questions:

1) Were the doses reasonably equivalent to real life doses in all three examples, or were the finasteride and dutasteride lower than one might expect if it is flowing through a bloodstream?
The three items tested Finastride, Dutastride and Revivogen Scalp Therapy were applied in equal amounts compared to each other. The study is designed to measure the ability of each compound to reduce DHT production under equivalent circumstances. Then their inhibition rates are compared to standard and each other. Finastride's inhibition rate is well known and yielded the same results here. Finastride is used by the lab as the standard to compare other compounds to. Dutastride was tested by our request for the first time by the lab and the results were equally similar to already known inhibition rates which is significantly higher than Finastride.

2) Were all three allowed to "soak" for the same amount of time?
Yes all time lines, dosages, and circumstances were the same for all tested compounds. Please see section 2.4 describing all time lines.

 

[Administrator]

I am going to bow out of this discussion at this time.

This community is for you guys, and so is this thread.

Admin

 

[michael barry]

IM not suprised at all that Revivogen works.


I tested it on the hair on my right wrist over two years ago, and at three months it reduced the hell out of it. The problem is that its greasy and it smells bad. It works though, with no side effects.


HOWEVER.................I have a feeling that other things (like menthol or green tea) might be just as efficious as anti-androgens with a less oily-ness and a more pleasant smell or no smell. Im not sure about Revivogen's latest additions of octyl-gallate's to its formula and whether or not it has made it smell better or be less greasy.

I think revivogen would be better than finasteride alone. Ive nothing to back that up, but its my own personal opinion.

 

[michael barry]

Suggestion for admin......................

If you would offer to PAY a handful of the newbies for a one-year before-and-after photograph (especially for someone with diffuse thinning or a baldspot) enough for a second years supply of Revivogen, you might be able to get a few guys to actually TAKE PHOTOS at the beginning of treatment and after one year on the treatment.

That is what Revivogen as a brand lacks, they need a few more photos showing a little hair regrowth from anti-androgenic means only. My opinion.

 

[JWM]

Michael Barry

Does this mean that perhaps Tricomin acts as a 5ar inhibitor because of its high menthol content?

Also, what do you suggest those who want you use a topical 5ar inhibitor (or anitandrogen) that isn't messy like Revivogen? Green tea's been around forever and menthol/peppermint oil is no secret right?

 

[bubka]

good thing we don't suggest putting finasteride or dutasteride on your head, otherwise, of course something else could prove to reduce greater levels of DHT

furthermore, ALWAYS skeptical when they don't show the N of the study, hell, it could be like 11 people in each group... maybe... who knows...????

 

[michael barry]

jwm,

yes on both counts

 

[sphlanx2006]

good thing we don't suggest putting finasteride or dutasteride on your head, otherwise, of course something else could prove to reduce greater levels of DHT

furthermore, ALWAYS skeptical when they don't show the N of the study, hell, it could be like 11 people in each group... maybe... who knows...????

actually i think they posted the N of this study and it was 3 for each group. But it was not people, i think it was just skin tissues. I could be wrong anytime though, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway I believe it is a very good alternative for for people that are afraid of (or actually get!!) side effects from internal medication.

 

[PME]

This seems interesting, although I'm not sure why this is deserving of such a prominent posting.

1) This study has not been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

2) This is not a study done on human subjects

3) The study is not testing the all-important outcomes result of whether or not it grows hair


I'm not dismissing the results, but I don't think this is worthy of getting too excited over. I hope further multiple, well-conducted clinical trials on human patients that are published in a peer-reviewed setting are forthcoming. If those are successful, then we have something to be excited about. Until then, I don't consider this to be among the proven treatments.

 

[PME]

good thing we don't suggest putting finasteride or dutasteride on your head, otherwise, of course something else could prove to reduce greater levels of DHT

furthermore, ALWAYS skeptical when they don't show the N of the study, hell, it could be like 11 people in each group... maybe... who knows...????

As I sort of mentioned above, people were not involved in this study.

There were 18 "reconstructed human epidermis" specimens on which the study was conducted. It looks like only 15 were used for analysis - table 3 shows N's and it looks like sphlanx2006 is correct in saying that each treatment group had 3 specimens (there were two dutasteride concentrations tested).

Again, this is not a study to get excited about. The N's are just another reason for being underwhelmed. The biological effects that were observed seem interesting, but I want to see further trials that show real results - does it regrow hair?!

 

[bubka]

good thing we don't suggest putting finasteride or dutasteride on your head, otherwise, of course something else could prove to reduce greater levels of DHT

furthermore, ALWAYS skeptical when they don't show the N of the study, hell, it could be like 11 people in each group... maybe... who knows...????

actually i think they posted the N of this study and it was 3 for each group. But it was not people, i think it was just skin tissues. I could be wrong anytime though, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway I believe it is a very good alternative for for people that are afraid of (or actually get!!) side effects from internal medication.

only 3, this is not a study, this is an experiment

 

[CCS]

good thing we don't suggest putting finasteride or dutasteride on your head, otherwise, of course something else could prove to reduce greater levels of DHT

furthermore, ALWAYS skeptical when they don't show the N of the study, hell, it could be like 11 people in each group... maybe... who knows...????

there were 3 in each group.

 

[CCS]

This seems interesting, although I'm not sure why this is deserving of such a prominent posting.

1) This study has not been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

2) This is not a study done on human subjects

3) The study is not testing the all-important outcomes result of whether or not it grows hair


I'm not dismissing the results, but I don't think this is worthy of getting too excited over. I hope further multiple, well-conducted clinical trials on human patients that are published in a peer-reviewed setting are forthcoming. If those are successful, then we have something to be excited about. Until then, I don't consider this to be among the proven treatments.

proven on Micheal Barry's wrist. Does it for me. I just wish they did not put Saw Palmetto in it.

 

[oyo]

The first flaw I think I see in this study is the delivery vehicle for the finasteride and dutasteride are 1% ethanol, 99% water, whereas the revivogen is in it's retain solution. I thought, at least for spironolactone, which is also a steroid, propylene glycol or some other penetration enhansor is needed for best effect. But since inhibition did occur, maybe their vehicle was OK.

I'm also amazed at how finasteride inhibited so much DHT, when 5ar1 accounts for 2/3 of scalp DHT. That makes me wonder.

Could you explain more? I thought it was mostly 5arII in teh scalp?

 

[CCS]

5ar2 is in the prostate and hair follicles. 5ar1 is in sebum glands and many other tissues throughout the body. Muscles don't have either. We don't know if bone has either, though definitely not 5ar2. And I don't know which the penis has.

Anyway, you got a lot more sebum glands than follicles in your scalp. It is well known that the majority of DHT in the scalp is made by 5ar1. But the 5ar2 in the follicle is the biggest culprit for hair loss. Well, next to our bad androgen receptors.

 

[Trenchant]

Suggestion for admin......................

If you would offer to PAY a handful of the newbies for a one-year before-and-after photograph (especially for someone with diffuse thinning or a baldspot) enough for a second years supply of Revivogen, you might be able to get a few guys to actually TAKE PHOTOS at the beginning of treatment and after one year on the treatment.

That is what Revivogen as a brand lacks, they need a few more photos showing a little hair regrowth from anti-androgenic means only. My opinion.

Revivogen, if it works, is an Antiandrogen treatment. Therefore, just like with Propecia, you aren't talking about before and after photos. You're talking about stopping further hair loss. So photos wouldn't do much. However I think this site has an entire Revivogen user review from people who actually verifiably bought Revivogen from here and reported back with their results. From what I remember, something like 85% of the people who actually stayed on it longer than 6 months saw a total cessation of hair loss. Here is the link: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/ ... le&sid=152

Voila.

 

[messm0rph]

So Propecia + minoxidil Morning + Revivogen Night = win

I been trying putting 600mg spironolactone in the mix as well as 1g of Grape Seed Polythings !

 

[Meta-Monster!]

So Propecia + minoxidil Morning + Revivogen Night = win

I been trying putting 600mg spironolactone in the mix as well as 1g of Grape Seed Polythings !

If you're applying minoxidil, apply it twice daily.

Propecia + minoxidil morning + Revivogen early evening + minoxidil just before bed = less of a loss. (If you have male pattern baldness you're ultimately losing no matter how you look at it).

By the way, Revivogen already has grape seed extract (procyanidin oligomers) in it. Also, I would not add 600mg spironolactone into the mix if you're a man and you're doing so orally.

http://www.regrowshair.com/general-hair- ... nolactone/
http://www.regrowshair.com/non-surgical- ... treatment/
http://www.baldingblog.com/2005/11/15/s ... hair-loss/

Even adding it into your regime topically is a terrible idea in my opinion. I tried it once and suffered the consequences.

 

[Sean68]

to anyone whos used revivogen - is it really, really greasy? i dont mind it being a pain to apply its just the tackiness i cant stand especially when im in bed. cheers.