Do you believe in reincarnation?

[GeminiX]

In my view the difference between animals and humans are souls. So if you live in a society that does not believe you are different from animals other than intellect then you cannot argue if someone kills your wife.

No, not at all. As a humanist I believe in good, but without the need for a god.

Forgetting the moral issues, right and wrong can still exist; it just does not need a supernatural influence to enforce it.

 

[optimus prime]

No, not at all. As a humanist I believe in good, but without the need for a god.

But what is a humanist? Preference for you own species? Based on what?

 

[s.a.f]

You know, that is such a great point. If there is no God, why should I not kill humans. Without a God, the only difference between a cow and human is intelligence. So if it is ok to kill a cow then it should be ok to kill a human.

Yup, and that is how the world used to be (and still is in some cultures).

I'm deadly serious. If I was like you guys, not believing in God. I would not worry about killing someone. I kill animals no problem for food, if pest etc.

In my view the difference between animals and humans are souls. So if you live in a society that does not believe you are different from animals other than intellect then you cannot argue if someone kills your wife.

You dont need some religious belief to decide your own conscious. I dont kill other people because I can relate to them (through society).
I have made my own views in life of whats right and wrong (like an intelligent species should) not be told what the rules are like some sheep.

How can you know for sure that we are the only species to have souls (if you believe in the whole concept of the soul).
Why just us humans why not dogs or monkeys since they are quite intelligent species if a dog or monkey has its own developed personality why cant it also have a soul?

 

[optimus prime]

I'm deadly serious. If I was like you guys, not believing in God. I would not worry about killing someone. I kill animals no problem for food, if pest etc.

In my view the difference between animals and humans are souls. So if you live in a society that does not believe you are different from animals other than intellect then you cannot argue if someone kills your wife.

How do you figure that? Of course you can. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean that I can't have morals. I don't need the reward of going to heaven to be a decent person, I do it anyway for free.

But why is it wrong to kill a human but not a cow?

 

[s.a.f]

[quote="s.a.f":116erput]There are plenty of fanatical animal right activists who believe just that.

Doesn't sound fanatical to me. If you don't believe in God and souls, then what is the difference between you and animals other than intelligence?

What makes you better than a cow?[/quote:116erput]

Nothing yet as a more advanced species I'm in a far better position.

 

[GeminiX]

No, not at all. As a humanist I believe in good, but without the need for a god.

But what is a humanist? Preference for you own species? Based on what?

Here you go - http://www.humanism.org.uk/humanism

In a nutshell (and to quote directly):

Humanists

• trusts to the scientific method when it comes to understanding how the universe works and rejects the idea of the supernatural (and is therefore an atheist or agnostic)[/*:m:1d6exl08]
• makes their ethical decisions based on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings and other sentient animals[/*:m:1d6exl08]
• believes that, in the absence of an afterlife and any discernible purpose to the universe, human beings can act to give their own lives meaning by seeking happiness in this life and helping others to do the same.[/*:m:1d6exl08]

 

[optimus prime]

Nothing yet as a more advanced species I'm in a far better position.

Could you not say the same if Mike Tyson killed a woman or a regular man. He could argue he is fitter and it is survival of the fittest.

 

[s.a.f]

I'm deadly serious. If I was like you guys, not believing in God. I would not worry about killing someone. I kill animals no problem for food, if pest etc.

In my view the difference between animals and humans are souls. So if you live in a society that does not believe you are different from animals other than intellect then you cannot argue if someone kills your wife.

How do you figure that? Of course you can. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean that I can't have morals. I don't need the reward of going to heaven to be a decent person, I do it anyway for free.

Exactly a modern devolped society should'nt need to use fantasist bargaining to keep its citizens under control. However there was once a time when it did.

 

[GeminiX]

How do you guys explain demonic possesion? There have been documented cases of people who are possessed speaking in seven different languages which they had never leaned, speaking in two seperate voices simultaneously...

People believe what they want to believe and fill in the blanks with imagination. Can you find a single piece of actual evidence and proof of anything happening in a repeatable or testable environment though?
(I don't believe there is any, though be interested if you prove me wrong).

I can do a very convincing "psychic/spiritualist" act using cold reading and some magic tricks. Even though it's just a party trick many people who see it are *utterly* convinced I'm giving them "messages from beyond".

 

[s.a.f]

[quote="s.a.f":3bx7n9bv]Nothing yet as a more advanced species I'm in a far better position.

Could you not say the same if Mike Tyson killed a woman or a regular man. He could argue he is fitter and it is survival of the fittest.[/quote:3bx7n9bv]

LOL like I already said thats a completley different situation because we're talking about killing a member of our own species. I never used a survival of the fittest ideal.
Society deems it ok for Mike to kill an animal for food if he likes. And as I said before maybe a day will come when killing another species is morally unnaceptable.
But for myself its hard to relate to that cow that ends up in my burger.

 

[s.a.f]

How do you guys explain demonic possesion? There have been documented cases of people who are possessed speaking in seven different languages which they had never leaned, speaking in two seperate voices simultaneously...

People believe what they want to believe and fill in the blanks with imagination. Can you find a single piece of actual evidence and proof of anything happening in a repeatable or testable environment though?
(I don't believe there is any, though be interested if you prove me wrong).

Exactly is that possesion like the Salem witch trials in which religious people condemned innocent people including women and children to be burnt at the stake.
Only for science to later prove that the real culprit was not infact the devil but a fungus on the wheatgerm that caused sickness and hollucinations in those who ate it?

 

[optimus prime]

[quote="optimus prime":1bali32j][quote="s.a.f":1bali32j]Nothing yet as a more advanced species I'm in a far better position.

Could you not say the same if Mike Tyson killed a woman or a regular man. He could argue he is fitter and it is survival of the fittest.[/quote:1bali32j]

LOL like I already said thats a completley different situation because we're talking about killing a member of our own species. I never used a survival of the fittest ideal.
Society deems it ok for Mike to kill an animal for food if he likes. And as I said before maybe a day will come when killing another species is morally unnaceptable.
But for myself its hard to relate to that cow that ends up in my burger.[/quote:1bali32j]

But isn't western society built on Christianity? So we get all our modern day values from religion?

The native Americans were butchering each other until Christianity was introduce to them.

 

[GeminiX]

But isn't western society built on Christianity? So we get all our modern day values from religion?

The native Americans were butchering each other until Christianity was introduce to them.

Pretty much, but even atheists believe that a lot of what is written in the new testament is good common sense, just draw a line though the supernatural bits.

I tend to think of the bible, well the new testament, as a book of good ideas with the God bit thrown in as clever marketing

edit - Interesting as this has been, I need to get some sleep. It's nearly tomorrow...

 

[optimus prime]

Optimus you said it yourself you wouldn't see it as a waste of time if you found out there wasn't a God because it made you feel better.

If there was a God do you think it would feel good that your belief in it was self serving. All religions bang on about faith. What is faith, faith to me is a word the encourages me to believe in something that cannot be proven. Faith is a falacy, an emotive ideology to draw on ones insecurities, nothing more. Do I like the fact that I don't beleive I will go to heavan, I damn well do not. But I do not have a self serving faith, I will not lie to myself, because in blissfull ignorance is not how I want to live.

You cannot fake belief. Just by faking belief means you don't believe which means it won't work.

I truly believe. If I am wrong I have not lost out on anything. If atheist are wrong...well they are in a wee bit more trouble.

 

[optimus prime]

But isn't western society built on Christianity? So we get all our modern day values from religion?

The native Americans were butchering each other until Christianity was introduce to them.

And then Christianity erradicated them almost entirely!

I have little sympathy for them. They were brutal to each other long before the 'whites' came.

If one tribe had developed the gun on its own, it would have wiped out all the other native American tribes.

 

[s.a.f]

But isn't western society built on Christianity? So we get all our modern day values from religion?

The native Americans were butchering each other until Christianity was introduce to them.

Yes and as I said before there was a time when society needed something like religion to give people a reason to conform and behave in a civilised manner in an uncivilised time. People then did'nt have any answers to the questions that science has now given us, so it was easy to put it all down to some supernatural being. These days we are (or should be) more advanced to be able to understand the world around us.

And as for the native Americans did'nt we stop them butchering each other by doing it for them.
I get my own sense of values from the world around me not from some blind faith forced upon me.

 

[s.a.f]

You cannot fake belief. Just by faking belief means you don't believe which means it won't work.

I truly believe. If I am wrong I have not lost out on anything. If atheist are wrong...well they are in a wee bit more trouble.

But you can be hugely influenced to believe something that you might not of otherwise.

And how do you know your God is the right one? There are plenty of other religions ot there.
Personally I 'd like to think that if there was a God he'd judge me purely on how I've lived my life not wether I was subservient like a sheep.
So an aethist who devotes their life to helping others is worse in Gods eyes than some believer who has led a totally selfish existence?

 

[s.a.f]

Don't I know it! The Christian God in who's name countless billions have been slaughtered and mans scientific evolution has been held back a thousand years, who's never given me a shread of material proof of his existence yet he is benevolant and forgiving whilst children are dying of starvation and so on and so forth. Well he apparantly wont let me or anyone else into his kingdom cos we don't beleive. Well me I can understand, I slag his existence sometimes daily but those poor papua newguinian tribesman that have never heard of Christianity, that's unforgiveable.

I don't particularly like the guys philosophies so heaven aint for me I guess!

Exactly!!!!! :bravo: :agree:

Theres no arguement to this. People just cant accept their own mortality.

 

[optimus prime]

Don't I know it! The Christian God in who's name countless billions have been slaughtered and mans scientific evolution has been held back a thousand years, who's never given me a shread of material proof of his existence yet he is benevolant and forgiving whilst children are dying of starvation and so on and so forth. Well he apparantly wont let me or anyone else into his kingdom cos we don't beleive. Well me I can understand, I slag his existence sometimes daily but those poor papua newguinian tribesman that have never heard of Christianity, that's unforgiveable.

I don't particularly like the guys philosophies so heaven aint for me I guess!

You can pick out the negatives. But you would not be living in the organised society you have now without Christianity. The church was at the forefront of education.

It was the church that had the money years ago and would school children. It wasn't politicians in those days who built society and morales. lol

I think it is easy to bash it in today's world when you live off its fruits. Wait 200 years when religion is gone then decide if society is better off. Obviously you cannot wait that long, lol.

I am not saying that because you are not religious you won't get into heaven Monty. Obeying the 10 commandments is the most important thing, and I bet you already do without religion.

 

[s.a.f]

Christians do not go on blind faith alone, there is evidence also, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was prophesied thousands of years before it occured in the old Testament, in fact crucifixion hadn't even been invented yet.......

Phropheses are not evidence. Is that the white skinned Jesus from Jerusalem?

How do you explain things like all of us coming from Adam and Eve, Noah's ark and the world being made in 6 days all of which are scientificly impossible?