Donald Trump Takes Finasteride. A New Perspective.

[Afro_Vacancy]

Federal government data shows that while roughly half of illegal immigrants file federal tax returns, the vast majority of them don’t pay any federal income taxes. Instead, they use these returns to claim refundable tax credits, which are a form of cash welfare. In other words, illegal immigrants mainly use the federal income tax code to collect money from U.S. citizens.

What is the cost of illegal immigration?

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments. The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117.

Please take a step back and realize that you are arguing in favor of criminals.

Ultimately, illegal immigrants are here because large sections of US industry and US consumers crave the cheap labour. That's the root cause.

It's difficult to discuss the issue without acknowledging that issue.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Trump's "vision for detente" you describe, for example, isn't viewed that way

Yes I know. People think the Russian government has blackmail on him engaging in golden showers in Russian hotels, that he has business dealings there, etc. I'm not very interested by that juvenile, pedestrian, and incorrect thinking.

He's been clear for a long time, he's more concerned by ISIS and Iran. Though you are not aware of it, this represents divisions in the thinking of US elites going back at least forty years. Back in the 1970s, Brezinski opted for detente with Russia, to focus us foreign policy on the third world.

 

[hairblues]

Both the mainstream right and the mainstream left in the USA are completely intellectually bankrupt and clueless as to the failure of the status quo in the USA right now. The country is failing, but they think it's never been stronger.

When I say I'm on the left I don't mean with Hillary Clinton and her idiot supporters, who are oblivious to the declining living standards and socioeconomic collapse of most of the country and make tone deaf slogans like #AmericaIsGreat, who think identity politics is more important than economic issues, who were OK with Obama bombing the sh*t out of Libya in spite of knowing nothing about that country, who think Putin hacked the election, and who wanted the US military to "help" in Syria in spite of again knowing nothing about that country.

These people get their info from CNN, NYT, Washington Post (just the headlines), and know next to nothing. They are opposing Trump out of virtue signalling, when Obama pursued many of the same policies they were OK with them.

You probably don't know what any of this means. Most people on the US left don't. They mostly live in coastal bubbles. Start reading Chomsky, Naked Capitalism, The Intercept, etc and maybe after two or three years you might realize that Obama was a hack rather than an angel of light and love.

I'm telling you this but I don't really feel like explaining it. I am sure that you believe that everything would be fine under Hillary.

This post is so smug and arrogant i actually cringed for you reading it.

 

[JHCL1990]

You take a step back and realize i am not arguing for or against anyone. I said clearly violent criminals need to go. Im not even that emotionally invested in immigrants i dont think it makes sense economically for mass deportation of all for more reasons then we have debated here..if you were not such a 'dick' i would get deeper into it with you to explain. But you are automatically biased against anything i would mention to you.

Point/

You said they dont pay taxes

I said they do

I gave you proof they do DOCUMENTED first in an article you dismiss as bias then with a Govt document that has the names of all the researchers.

You keep coming back with stuff you can't even quote from where you get it...LEt me guess Heritage Foundation?

It's impossible to get around paying sales and property taxes, which is where your information is coming from. Apparently you don't know the difference between that and federal income taxes, which the vast majority of illegals don't pay, yet many still receive refunds and public services.

Illegal immigration costs the U.S. ~113 billion per year. Once you get that number down to 0, you'll win this argument. Till then you just look dumb as a rock.

Did you vote for Hillary?

 

[SmoothSailing]

Federal government data shows that while roughly half of illegal immigrants file federal tax returns, the vast majority of them don’t pay any federal income taxes. Instead, they use these returns to claim refundable tax credits, which are a form of cash welfare. In other words, illegal immigrants mainly use the federal income tax code to collect money from U.S. citizens.

What is the cost of illegal immigration?

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments. The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117.

Please take a step back and realize that you are arguing in favor of criminals.

This whole argument about illegal immigrants seems bizarre to me. If you don't uphold the law then what's the point of the law in the first place?

I know some Irish people living in the US illegally and legally. I think the US is fully in the right to deport those that are there illegally. Why wouldn't they? Besides everything else it's unfair to those that go through all the work to go there legally.

Regardless of the tax savings and the possible crime, surely anyone who is there illegally should either become legal or be deported. I can't understand how people can argue against this.

 

[hairblues]

It's impossible to get around paying sales and property taxes, which is where your information is coming from. Apparently you don't know the difference between that and federal income taxes, which the vast majority of illegals don't pay, yet many still receive refunds and public services.

Illegal immigration costs the U.S. ~113 billion per year. Once you get that number down to 0, you'll win this argument. Till then you just look dumb as a rock.

Did you vote for Hillary?

Dude i quoted the actual actuary report that showed the PAYROLL tax

Can you read?

 

[hairblues]

This whole argument about illegal immigrants seems bizarre to me. If you don't uphold the law then what's the point of the law in the first place?

I know some Irish people living in the US illegally and legally. I think the US is fully in the right to deport those that are there illegally. Why wouldn't they? Besides everything else it's unfair to those that go through all the work to go there legally.

Regardless of the tax savings and the possible crime, surely anyone who is there illegally should either become legal or be deported. I can't understand how people can argue against this.

The problem is these illegal immigrant most are working here jobs that no one would take or want
So to just mass deporting of them would be
1. insanely expensive just to physically do. 2. it would take away from so much business especially agricultural industry.

Its stupid that we don't just get rid of the violent criminals (not stopped for a traffic light criminals, or carrying a joint) but people who steal, or assault etc--lets get rid of them for sure.

But to deport the hard working ones who do nothing wrong OTHER than wanting to flee a horrific life? its just stupid..we kind of need them here and they need to be here..not all but most.

I mean i have American kids who intern that done even want to get coffee because they feel too precious and its a 'micro aggression' to treat them like servants when they are here to learn..--these kids are going to mow lawns, wash dishes, pick strawberries? pff.

 

[hairblues]

Yes I know. People think the Russian government has blackmail on him engaging in golden showers in Russian hotels, that he has business dealings there, etc. I'm not very interested by that juvenile, pedestrian, and incorrect thinking.

He's been clear for a long time, he's more concerned by ISIS and Iran. Though you are not aware of it, this represents divisions in the thinking of US elites going back at least forty years. Back in the 1970s, Brezinski opted for detente with Russia, to focus us foreign policy on the third world.

David you are a smart guy--but its a shame how you talk down to people sometimes who are just trying to engage you.

 

[JHCL1990]

This f*****g a**h** isn't even from the U.S? You've got to be kidding me... No wonder you don't know sh*t. Like I said, when you get the $113 billion it costs the U.S. every year to support these criminal illegals down to 0, we can talk.

You're simply arguing that illegals pay taxes. Period. But aren't taking into account the actual figures, how much they pay compared to the average U.S. citizen, how many illegals actually pay taxes, how much it costs us legal citizens having them here. They are a massive burden on our economy.

Although it sounds like you live in one of those great socialist utopia's where you pay 60%+ of your income in taxes for "free healthcare" and the like, so it's no surprise you don't understand the concept of wasting money.

 

[SmoothSailing]

The problem is these illegal immigrant most are working here jobs that no one would take or want
So to just mass deporting of them would be
1. insanely expensive just to physically do. 2. it would take away from so much business especially agricultural industry.

Its stupid that we don't just get rid of the violent criminals (not stopped for a traffic light criminals, or carrying a joint) but people who steal, or assault etc--lets get rid of them for sure.

But to deport the hard working ones who do nothing wrong OTHER than wanting to flee a horrific life? its just stupid..we kind of need them here and they need to be here..not all but most.

I mean i have American kids who intern that done even want to get coffee because they feel too precious and its a 'micro aggression' to treat them like servants when they are here to learn..--these kids are going to mow lawns, wash dishes, pick strawberries? pff.

But can you not see the ridiculousness in this position?

On the one hand you say "it's against the law to come here without applying for visas, you must go through this process to enter the country", like every other country.

On the other hand you say "but we won't enforce that law".

It's madness, unfair and illogical.

I understand and agree with your point that deporting people could be costly, disruptive, damaging to the economy and unfair on some. So if you can't deport them then make them legal. It's the only option that makes sense to me.

If you need this cheap labor than change the laws so you can get it legally.

If they are legal it will clear up all this tax avoidance sh*t as a added benefit.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

David you are a smart guy--but its a shame how you talk down to people sometimes who are just trying to engage you.

He wasn't trying to engage.

When it comes to politics, very few people do.

 

[Captain Rex]

Just a quick message to all other countries on Earth: In the future, you’re going to find yourself wanting to ask, ‘What is your president talking about?’ a great deal. And the answer is almost always going to be, 'We have no f*****g idea'.

LOL I was like

 

[JHCL1990]

Just a quick message to all other countries on Earth: In the future, you’re going to find yourself wanting to ask, ‘What is your president talking about?’ a great deal. And the answer is almost always going to be, 'We have no f*****g idea'.

LOL I was like

John Oliver is a super far-left moron.

But in this case...

He's right!

 

[hairblues]

But can you not see the ridiculousness in this position?

On the one hand you say "it's against the law to come here without applying for visas, you must go through this process to enter the country", like every other country.

On the other hand you say "but we won't enforce that law".

It's madness, unfair and illogical.

I understand and agree with your point that deporting people could be costly, disruptive, damaging to the economy and unfair on some. So if you can't deport them then make them legal. It's the only option that makes sense to me.

If you need this cheap labor than change the laws so you can get it legally.

If they are legal it will clear up all this tax avoidance sh*t as a added benefit.

I dont know the polls but many people including republicans wanted to do comprehensive immigration which would give citizenship to many..its mostly people on far right (further right then most Tea party) who want them gone..they want the mexicans gone the same way they want Muslims gone.

They find reasons to justify it but they just want there mostly 'white' nation back.

Lets keep it real. They can pretend its money and safety--it's not they just feel very threatened.

 

[hairblues]

This f*****g a**h** isn't even from the U.S? y.

I'm from NY b**ch. Born and raised.

I guess you really do have trouble reading...take a moment try to comprehend the words in total.

 

[hairblues]

He wasn't trying to engage.

When it comes to politics, very few people do.

You are wrong, he was just asking you questions. Read it with fresh eyes another time you will see.

 

[SmoothSailing]

I dont know the polls but many people including republicans wanted to do comprehensive immigration which would give citizenship to many..its mostly people on far right (further right then most Tea party) who want them gone..they want the mexicans gone the same way they want Muslims gone.

They find reasons to justify it but they just want there mostly 'white' nation back.

Lets keep it real. They can pretend its money and safety--it's not they just feel very threatened.

You haven't addressed my points though. I'm not talking about anything to do with racism, or the reasons people have a problem with these folk. That's completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. (no offense)

I mean why would we even take people with those opinions into account in this discussion?

Anyone who wants these people gone because they're " not white" or something like that, are completely in the wrong. But lets not let those folk hijack what is a logical discussion on how to deal with a problem.

I'm talking about what "should be", not what's likely to happen. I really have lost track of what's actually happening in the US right now. So much bullshit from every direction.

So imagine you were completely in charge tomorrow. (1) Would you deport? (2) Make legal? (3) Or just leave as is?

Because all I'm saying is that options 1 and 2 are the only ones that make sense to me, and I take your point that option 1 is likely not feasible. So that leaves option 2.

 

[hairblues]

This f*****g a**h** isn't even from the U.S? You've got to be kidding me... No wonder you don't know sh*t. Like I said, when you get the $113 billion it costs the U.S. every year to support these criminal illegals down to 0, we can talk.

You're simply arguing that illegals pay taxes. Period. But aren't taking into account the actual figures, how much they pay compared to the average U.S. citizen, how many illegals actually pay taxes, how much it costs us legal citizens having them here. They are a massive burden on our economy.

Although it sounds like you live in one of those great socialist utopia's where you pay 60%+ of your income in taxes for "free healthcare" and the like, so it's no surprise you don't understand the concept of wasting money.

again you quote numbers but give NO reference from where you are getting it

Going to ask once again is it by chance the Heritage Foundation?

 

[yetti]

>>Trump's "vision for detente" you describe, for example, isn't viewed that way

>Yes I know. People think the Russian government has blackmail on him engaging in golden showers in Russian hotels, that he has business dealings there, etc. I'm not very interested by that juvenile, pedestrian, and incorrect thinking.

I guess you have his tax returns, and also are aware in advance of the results of various investigations going on. That's amazing. You presume to know things that you don't, and can't know. You are SURE, and people who think otherwise are "juvenile, pedestrian, and incorrect". Hint: it's OK to say "I don't know", to use the word "probably", the phrase "in my opinion", etc. Or even to just state your opinion without insulting the intelligence of those who may disagree.

>He's been clear for a long time, he's more concerned by ISIS and Iran. Though you are not aware of it,

You have no idea what I'm aware of or not aware of. When you talk like this you lose poeple. Stick to describing your own thoughts if asked, and don't presume to know what anyone else thinks, reads, or knows, if they haven't told you.

Anyway, thanks for finally responding to my question.

>He wasn't trying to engage.

Again, thanks for finally responding to my question.

 

[hairblues]

You haven't addressed my points though. I'm not talking about anything to do with racism, or the reasons people have a problem with these folk. That's completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. (no offense)

I mean why would we even take people with those opinions into account in this discussion?

Anyone who wants these people gone because they're " not white" or something like that, are completely in the wrong. But lets not let those folk hijack what is a logical discussion on how to deal with a problem.

I'm talking about what "should be", not what's likely to happen. I really have lost track of what's actually happening in the US right now. So much bullshit from every direction.

So imagine you were completely in charge tomorrow. (1) Would you deport? (2) Make legal? (3) Or just leave as is?

Because all I'm saying is that options 1 and 2 are the only ones that make sense to me, and I take your point that option 1 is likely not feasible. So that leaves option 2.

Okay

I would do comprehensive immigration reform.

bi partisan meaning give and take on both sides, because there is bi partisan support for this with most rational people, so get the best minds on both sides and go forward

in broad strokes ideally
I would deport the ones who are (violent) criminals and gang members--they have records not hard to do.
I would keep the ones working and raising families living peacefully and give them a way to become legal citizens.

if there needed to be give and take on above fine. but generally speaking that is what i would do something both Bush jr and Obama tried to do and fail.

the boarder i don't know enough about to be very honest as far as a 'wall' it just seems silly because they go underground the drug traffickers and sex trade human trafficking--which is ideally the worse of what we want to keep out..

for instance if i was a terrorist i would HIRE the drug cartel to take me underground tunnels...they are massive you should research the underground tunnels of Mexico to USA so you can see what i am talking about...the above ground--i dont know how this 'wall' would effect BUT i am pretty sure ICE and Homeland has said that in the past few years they are not coming in the way they used to over boarder--so this Wall i suspect is a lot of BS. but we will see. i would personally rather see the money go elsewhere than to this wall. Only because i dont think its going to be what he promised people in size and scope and i dont think its going to be effective.


I just want to add

I don't know in Mexico and Central America HOW easy it is to come here legally with a visa or immigrate here.

So i think we have to wonder when people say "come here legally like I did" and its someone like Melania Trump from Europe and she was a model who was sponsered--we have to ask How easy is it for poor Mexicans to come to USA legally? IF it were possible don't we think they would be doing it legally?

Im not even sure how much they are doing it anymore to be honest past few years it's supposedly dipped a lot.