Dr Tsuji And Hairloss Treatment Questions

[hanginginthewire]

Even though it suuuuuuucks that we are dealing with this nightmare, I envision a day - and it’s really in the not too distant future - where That Guy will need to begin walking back all his many overconfident assertions. It will be interesting to watch. We’ll be sitting here - no Follica, no Shiseido, no nothing. No new treatments, no relief from our symptoms. But we should be comforted because some dude made one hair grow out of an arm 20 years ago.

 

[RoyMunsonned]

Obviously the history of hair loss treatments is grim but of all the teams working on this problem, this one looks like the least-deserving of pessimism to me. If I'm not mistaken he has shown human cells packaged together and implanted in mouse skin will generate a fully-working hair follicle. So it's far from absurd to think the same will happen when the medium is human rather than mouse skin. And the emphasis in recent times has been not on that process, but on the inability to multiply the required cells through enough generations to be worth it. But again if I'm not mistaken, this has been resolved now too. Meaning an essentially unlimited amount of follicles can presumably be created, and human trials await. And if they're successful this treatment can be rapidly released in Japan. If this is an inaccurate summary as of May 2018 I'd like to know.

Also with the staggering level of demand for such a treatment I expect it would spread and cheapen reasonably quickly, and it's not like people have never loaned money for surgery before, so... pay it back every month for decades if it means that much to you, who cares?

 

[That Guy]

A balding head is a condition that has to be overcome. Its not what we consider a normal environment for hair growth. Yes the mice are growing normal human hair or or skin, but male pattern baldness is a big hurdle that cant be replicated in a mouse. And why cant it be replicated? Cause we still dont know exactly what causes it.
What they need to do is biopsy male pattern baldness affected follicles and implant them on a mouse, then try to bring those fuckers back to a healthy state.

Not really, no.

Transplants work in a "balding head". Microneedling studies show a sustained response (for at least up to eight months as that's as much as the follow ups have gone) in a balding head too.

It's not something wrong with the scalp itself; it's with the hair follicles. There is more than enough research proving this by now.

Even though it suuuuuuucks that we are dealing with this nightmare, I envision a day - and it’s really in the not too distant future - where That Guy will need to begin walking back all his many overconfident assertions. It will be interesting to watch. We’ll be sitting here - no Follica, no Shiseido, no nothing. No new treatments, no relief from our symptoms. But we should be comforted because some dude made one hair grow out of an arm 20 years ago.

God you are such a little b**ch.

Just go bald already — you have no reason to be here.

 

[That Guy]

This will be good.

Autistic screeching in T-Minus 5....

 

[Falsenine]

Even though it suuuuuuucks that we are dealing with this nightmare, I envision a day - and it’s really in the not too distant future - where That Guy will need to begin walking back all his many overconfident assertions. It will be interesting to watch. We’ll be sitting here - no Follica, no Shiseido, no nothing. No new treatments, no relief from our symptoms. But we should be comforted because some dude made one hair grow out of an arm 20 years ago.

You’re more interested in seeing someone proven wrong than actual treatments?
Man just accept going bald if you don’t believe in anything and according to you nothing is coming out in the near future.

 

[rclark]

Couldn't you technically find ONE single DHT resistant hair and clone the sh*t out of it? That's all you'd need.

That's what Tsugi's is. They find DHT resistant hair (back or sides, not sure which), and only clone that.

So, for the areas covered, it is a "cure".

 

[hanginginthewire]

You’re more interested in seeing someone proven wrong than actual treatments?
Man just accept going bald if you don’t believe in anything and according to you nothing is coming out in the near future.

Didn’t say that.

And as far as not “believing in anything” - it’s not a matter of belief. It’s up to the people making extraordinary claims - “a functional cure will be out in the next two to three years...” - to provide evidence for those claims. I just find it amusing that posters take this, “who’s the a**h**...” tone of condescension when anyone questions any aspect of these alleged game-changing treatments. Meanwhile we sit here day after day, month after month, and even year after year with no new treatment and absolutely no guarantee that anything is forthcoming. There’s an obvious disconnect there.

2018 is half over. It had been hyped for ages as this ground-breaking, game-changing, historical year. And here we are.

Anyway, I was just saying it’s interesting. Not that I would “rather” see someone be wrong than keep my hair. It’s not my fault that I’m losing my hair and it’s certainly not a choice. Some of you sound like Calvinists who think balding is a punishment for not demonstrating enough “belief” in X, Y, or Z treatment. It’s not.

 

[Jake94]

That's what Tsugi's is. They find DHT resistant hair (back or sides, not sure which), and only clone that.

So, for the areas covered, it is a "cure".

Just out of curiosity, but with today’s hair transplants, what’s the reason you can’t create normal hair density? If Dr tsuji’s treatment works... won’t they still face the same problem and not be able to get normal hair density?

 

[THALL]

Just out of curiosity, but with today’s hair transplants, what’s the reason you can’t create normal hair density? If Dr tsuji’s treatment works... won’t they still face the same problem and not be able to get normal hair density?

Hair density in transplants is limited by incision size and donor hair availability. There are a lot of surgeons dense packing hairlines already, but that's limited by the number of donor hair you have. So cloned donor hairs = higher density. Also tsuji’s method will use a blade the size of a needle to implant the follicles, whereas in transplant the surgeons usually use much bigger blades, limiting the possible density in one surgery.

 

[lemoncloak]

Just out of curiosity, but with today’s hair transplants, what’s the reason you can’t create normal hair density? If Dr tsuji’s treatment works... won’t they still face the same problem and not be able to get normal hair density?

To add to the above, transplants basically insert a cylindrical piece of scalp into a hole, since the whole follicle needs to be moved, plucking a hair and transplanting it would be useless cause the hair inducing stem cells would remain in the donor area. Tsuji on the other hand wants to transplant a small lump of cells, smaller than a follicle and definitely smaller than the typical cylindrical plugs. In the first case, there's a danger of necrosis if the density is too high, because there's not enough blood to sustain the transplants, not to mention some get rejected. In the latter it should be possible to achieve greater densities, since the organoid is small and it grows into a mature follicle inside the scalp. The Tsuji team has already shown density results twice the average hair transplant limit, hopefully they can double that in the future so they can achieve something like this:

 

[CodyJ]

So when will this stem cell cloning thing by avaialble? how much will it cost?

 

[IncognitoMan]

So when will this stem cell cloning thing by avaialble? how much will it cost?

If we only knew! Makes you question, do I go for a hair transplant knowing in 8-10 years there will be stem cell cloning giving me unlimited donor supply? Or, do I have to wait 8-10 years before I get a hair transplant to see what my balding pattern is before I exhaust my donor supply.

There appears to be much hope, but I am also keeping realistic expectations on timeframes. If I hope for a this to be available in 15 years, but it turns out it's sooner, then I'm thrilled! If I hope for it to be available in 7 years, and it turns out to be 15.... well, you know.

Thankfully, I've already got enough in savings for a hair transplant. So, I'll just keep on saving for when this comes out, and I should be able to afford it too!

 

[That Guy]

And as far as not “believing in anything” - it’s not a matter of belief. It’s up to the people making extraordinary claims - “a functional cure will be out in the next two to three years...” - to provide evidence for those claims. I just find it amusing that posters take this, “who’s the a**h**...” tone of condescension when anyone questions any aspect of these alleged game-changing treatments. Meanwhile we sit here day after day, month after month, and even year after year with no new treatment and absolutely no guarantee that anything is forthcoming. There’s an obvious disconnect there.

I, as have others, have explained my thinking to you many, many times. You've seen links to studies demonstrating the technology works, and this is never good enough for you. When someone says something like "X treatment is in its last phase, we can probably expect it in ~2 years; when they say healthy human cells that perform their normal functions in animals will perform that function in a human, that is not an "extraordinary claim" — it is the most reasonable prediction possible.

You are not looking for evidence of success or things coming to market. If you were, you'd take the information in stride as it comes. But you don't. Your presumption is that everything is a lie and with that presumption, there is no "evidence" anyone can give you that will persuade you aside from actually handing you the product in question.

So no, I don't believe that you're less interested in proving people wrong.

 

[forlorn]

Along with all the other suggestions Organ Tech has a method for changing the fate of the follicle itself by removing an enzyme so even if the hair follicle was destined to shrink this fate can be intervened.

You'll find everything here have translator handy:
http://www.organ-technol.co.jp/business/hair-follicle-regeneration/

Is it just me or did they push the date back rather than forward? At the bottom of the link:

"We are currently pursuing research and development with a view to clinical application of hair follicle regeneration as the world's first organ regeneration in humans in 2018."

 

[That Guy]

Is it just me or did they push the date back rather than forward? At the bottom of the link:

"We are currently pursuing research and development with a view to clinical application of hair follicle regeneration as the world's first organ regeneration in humans in 2018."

No, that could be forward.

Though, as I recall, their fiscal year 2018 goes into something like March 2019 calendar year. So it either moved up, or not at all.

 

[Mykonas]

Some dingheads in here are pushing some strong claims even tsuji himself can't say the same up to this day...

 

[Kevin19888]

Good news is it doesn't matter what you think because the science is there to prove you wrong.

The only companies that ever had anything kinda similar to this were Intercytex and Aderans. The main thing that stood in the way was cultivating enough of the cells without losing their necessary properties, and funding.

This does not suffer from those issues.



An insertion of cells is exactly what this is.

Ah good old Intercytex. I remember in my teens getting excited about this. The only problem they had was the angles tho. Those hair angles tho lol.

 

[hanginginthewire]

I, as have others, have explained my thinking to you many, many times. You've seen links to studies demonstrating the technology works, and this is never good enough for you. When someone says something like "X treatment is in its last phase, we can probably expect it in ~2 years; when they say healthy human cells that perform their normal functions in animals will perform that function in a human, that is not an "extraordinary claim" — it is the most reasonable prediction possible.

You are not looking for evidence of success or things coming to market. If you were, you'd take the information in stride as it comes. But you don't. Your presumption is that everything is a lie and with that presumption, there is no "evidence" anyone can give you that will persuade you aside from actually handing you the product in question.

So no, I don't believe that you're less interested in proving people wrong.

What you say would carry more weight if I were an army of one. But my dude, I am hardly the only person that is skeptical of the likelihood of an imminent cure-like treatment.

Why do you suppose that is? Wouldn’t it be a fairly touted fact that “studies” show a cure is coming? You may say the public isn’t paying attention but there’s no consensus even among people like us who look into the treatments. Visit reddit>tressles, hairlosscure2020, this place, and your alleged plum obvious assertion is a well kept secret. People are freaking out, chasing every lead, giving up, certainly not hanging back and waiting for the functional cure that’s coming in <2 years.

 

[Toby0823]

Didn’t say that.

And as far as not “believing in anything” - it’s not a matter of belief. It’s up to the people making extraordinary claims - “a functional cure will be out in the next two to three years...” - to provide evidence for those claims. I just find it amusing that posters take this, “who’s the a**h**...” tone of condescension when anyone questions any aspect of these alleged game-changing treatments. Meanwhile we sit here day after day, month after month, and even year after year with no new treatment and absolutely no guarantee that anything is forthcoming. There’s an obvious disconnect there.

2018 is half over. It had been hyped for ages as this ground-breaking, game-changing, historical year. And here we are.

Anyway, I was just saying it’s interesting. Not that I would “rather” see someone be wrong than keep my hair. It’s not my fault that I’m losing my hair and it’s certainly not a choice. Some of you sound like Calvinists who think balding is a punishment for not demonstrating enough “belief” in X, Y, or Z treatment. It’s not.

Let the delusional baldies believe what they want to believe. Delusion for a cure is the only reason many of these people haven’t gave up on life, yet.

From past failures, promises, and “science makes sense” crap, baldies will be bald for at least another 15yrs. Hairloss have negatively affected humans since before Roman times. To this day we only have Finnastride and minoxidil, which is a joke really. People say science have evolved so far in recent years....they said that in the mid 90’s as well. Five years ago respected hair loss researchers guaranteed a cure in 5yrs, on live national tv. They have since disappeared and replaced with new bozo hairloss researchers.

Cloning is the only logical “cure” to me and I’m sure it’ll be available in the future. Whether it’s in our lifetime or not is uncertain.

 

[itsjustsimon]

I really miss the feature for this forum where we could downvote a post like on reddit so I wouldn't have to read 90% of the crap here.

Edit: ooh look, I found the ignore button.