DWAT: Dermal White Adipose Tissue Hypothesis

[StayPositive]

Linkage between dermal adipose tissue status, WNTb catenin, PGD2 prostaglandins, Androgenic receptors.

"As different prostaglandins have opposing biological effects, PGD2 MAY MEDIATE testosterone INHIBITION OF WNT signaling IN Androgenetic Alopecia. Future studies are needed to test this hypothesis. ! It is interesting to speculate that AR roles in other physiological processes may be tied to its role as a β-catenin/Wnt inhibitor."

"We conclude that activation of Wnt/β-catenin signaling in adult epidermis STIMULATES ADIPOGENESIS in association WITH INDUCTION OF anagen and ectopic HF FORMATION."

"They also show that overexpression of localized WNT CONVERTS dermal ADIPOSE CELLS INTO a distinct FIBROBLAST subtype, which leads to fibrosis and disrupted hair follicle cycling."

"The authors of several articles (Hamburg and Atit, 2012, Mastrogiannaki et al., 2016, Wei et al., 2011), speculate that inhibition of Wnt signaling could be a new therapeutic target for the treatment of skin fibrotic diseases."


Has anyone investigated or even tried any WNTb modulating drugs? GSK3B inhibitors? DKK1 inhibitors? SM04554?

So in theory keeping pgd2 under control should stop further hair loss?

 

[balda]

So in theory keeping pgd2 under control should stop further hair loss?

yep

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

yep

I am trying to keep up with all of this. Hair science sure isn't easy. Hair reality for males isn't easy either in a post-industrial society. Thanks for posting, OP, it's all data points to some of us, correct, incorrect or partially correct though it may be.

 

[StayPositive]

yep

I just saw your work on reddit, i think your are into something.

Personally I thought fibrosis and calcification were just byproducts of male pattern baldness but not the causes of male pattern baldness

If your right it would be a game changer

If i recall correctly, low dose aspirin (325mg) reduces pgd2 by 86%.

High dose, between 1500-2000mg, should reduces it even more

We know asprin reduces both pge2 and pgd2. But in theory, if we add a pge2 analogue like castor oil or plain topical pge2, it should work.

Aspirin also greatly reduces DKK1

What do you think? Do you think it can work without anti androgen? I can't tolerate these poisons..

There are plenty of guys on raypeatforum saying aspirin completely halt their hair loss but no regrowth

Adding Taurin should be beneficial, since it works against fibrosis.

Niacin and vitamin E seem promising too

 

[StayPositive]

I am thinking of trying this protocol for 6 months minimum:

-Oral Aspirin at 1500mg per day for pgd2 inhibition. When you take Aspirin you must take it with vitamin k2 to avoid bleeding problems + glycin to avoid hearing sides effects (tinnitus). So i will take them

-Castor oil for pge2 benefits , both orally (2ml per day) and topically

-Oral Niacin at 1000mg per day

-Taurine (don't know the dosage for the moment, i must investigate)

-Vitamin E (don't know the dosage and the form for the moment, i must investigate)

- Vitamin D at 10 000 UI per day

-Calcium at 1000mg per day

-Magnesium 600-800mg per day

-I will use an aspirin based shampoo

Tell me what you think about that, do you think i should add something?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Depends on your goals. Mine is restoration of my juvenile hairline. Yours is probably less ambitious. I think you are trying to proceed without hormones or minoxidil so looks good in that sense and it will either work or it won't. I won't tell you my prediction because I am still learning about prostaglandins but I am skeptical a bit but rooting for you. It's all data points and you are serving the cohort even if it doesn't work cause now we know.

 

[balda]

I am thinking of trying this protocol for 6 months minimum:
-Oral Aspirin at 1500mg per day for pgd2 inhibition. When you take Aspirin you must take it with vitamin k2 to avoid bleeding problems + glycin to avoid hearing sides effects (tinnitus). So i will take them
-Vitamin E (don't know the dosage and the form for the moment, i must investigate)

be careful with E/Aspirin. They are blood thinners, the both.
and it's advised, to take E for a couple of months and then take a break for 3-4 months. as it's cumulative with possible side effects.

 

[balda]

@JaneyElizabeth
I'm sorry, do you experience Androgenetic Alopecia? or something else?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

@JaneyElizabeth
I'm sorry, do you experience Androgenetic Alopecia? or something else?

Thank you for asking, Balda.

So I have been blogging my hair restoration and transition journey or whatever for six years. I was never bald until I had a spironolactone shed down to more or less cueball so Goddess was teaching me to be thankful for my new hair. I am posting pics every once in a while. I hope you will follow or make comments. Feedback is always helpful:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/hair-is-not-life-but-its-pretty-damn-close-hrt-and-pictorial-posts-prove-it.130425/page-23#post-1939943

And so, my wig has become part of my personality so the irony will be if I continue to use it. But hair in a female context has to be essentially perfect at the hairline; they seldom bald there so that is my last bit of white whale, my hairline but it is coming in beautifully.

 

[balda]

Here is something that depresses me...
Talked to a guy who knows @eldarlmario from BTT. I mentioned the eldarlmario's protocol in the thread. It looks like near to the perfect one from DWAT hypothesis point of view. And it doesn't work for eldarlmario. To be precise "he hasn't recovered his hair".

What can be seen on the photo (it's legit) is that he got vellus hairs sprouting across all the balding areas. Back to juvenile hairline. It's a pretty typical result of the "anti-inflammatory" therapy (pgd2 blockers and so on).

Any ideas about this "vellus recovery". Is just a start of the real recovery? And something else is missing to bring recovery to the next "terminal" state? Or it's a dead dead end and the vellus parade is just a meaningless side effect of the treatment?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Here is something that depresses me...
Talked to a guy who knows @eldarlmario from BTT. I mentioned the eldarlmario's protocol in the thread. It looks like near to the perfect one from DWAT hypothesis point of view. And it doesn't work for eldarlmario. To be precise "he hasn't recovered his hair".

What can be seen on the photo (it's legit) is that he got vellus hairs sprouting across all the balding areas. Back to juvenile hairline. It's a pretty typical result of the "anti-inflammatory" therapy (pgd2 blockers and so on).

Any ideas about this "vellus recovery". Is just a start of the real recovery? And something else is missing to bring recovery to the next "terminal" state? Or it's a dead dead end and the vellus parade is just a meaningless side effect of the treatment?

Hair among whites was given to the female according to St. Paul in the Bible. I am telling you and others that baldness and beards are part of the same phenomenon but nobody follows. No hair is ever lost on average. It just moves downward to the face for some reason and you and I as caucasians don't like the look. But this is fine-tuned so you can't quite get there without the estrogen. Estrogen is the key, as well as the recognition that beard growth and hair loss are lnked.

 

[StayPositive]

be careful with E/Aspirin. They are blood thinners, the both.
and it's advised, to take E for a couple of months and then take a break for 3-4 months. as it's cumulative with possible side effects.

Blood thinning effect 9f aspirin is neutralized by high dose vitamin k2

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Blood thinning effect 9f aspirin is neutralized by high dose vitamin k2

Is this really safer than HRT? The aspirin aspect makes me nervous about this protocol for you guys but I guess science is not made by sissies. We are all data points.

 

[StayPositive]

Depends on your goals. Mine is restoration of my juvenile hairline. Yours is probably less ambitious. I think you are trying to proceed without hormones or minoxidil so looks good in that sense and it will either work or it won't. I won't tell you my prediction because I am still learning about prostaglandins but I am skeptical a bit but rooting for you. It's all data points and you are serving the cohort even if it doesn't work cause now we know.

My goal is just to maintening, i don't need regrowth, i am a diffuse thinner (DUPA)

Is this really safer than HRT? The aspirin aspect makes me nervous about this protocol for you guys but I guess science is not made by sissies. We are all data points.

Imo aspirin is way safer than HRT

People on raypeatforum take high dose aspirin for years without sides if they take it correctly (never take aspirin on an empty stomach)

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

My goal is just to maintening, i don't need regrowth, i am a diffuse thinner (DUPA)



Imo aspirin is way safer than HRT

People on raypeatforum take high dose aspirin for years without sides if they take it correctly (never take aspirin on an empty stomach)

I keep hearing it interferes with minoxidil though. Estrogen is incredibly safe but AA's are indeed serious biz synthetic meds.

 

[StayPositive]

I keep hearing it interferes with minoxidil though. Estrogen is incredibly safe but AA's are indeed serious biz synthetic meds.

Yes, if you take minoxidil you cannot take aspirin.

But i don't care, minoxidil didn't work for me at all, even at high oral dose (10mg)

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Yes, if you take minoxidil you cannot take aspirin.

But i don't care, minoxidil didn't work for me at all, even at high oral dose (10mg)

I am not trying to chide you. I started Castor Oil a couple of weeks ago but don't some people combine that with aspirin?

 

[StayPositive]

Here is something that depresses me...
Talked to a guy who knows @eldarlmario from BTT. I mentioned the eldarlmario's protocol in the thread. It looks like near to the perfect one from DWAT hypothesis point of view. And it doesn't work for eldarlmario. To be precise "he hasn't recovered his hair".

What can be seen on the photo (it's legit) is that he got vellus hairs sprouting across all the balding areas. Back to juvenile hairline. It's a pretty typical result of the "anti-inflammatory" therapy (pgd2 blockers and so on).

Any ideas about this "vellus recovery". Is just a start of the real recovery? And something else is missing to bring recovery to the next "terminal" state? Or it's a dead dead end and the vellus parade is just a meaningless side effect of the treatment?

Do you need regrowth? Or maintenance?

What is eldarlmario's protocol exactly?

 

[StayPositive]

I am not trying to chide you. I started Castor Oil a couple of weeks ago but don't some people combine that with aspirin?

As far as i know, nobody ever reported being on aspirin and castor combo. I will be the first to report.

I will tell you if it works, i just received ly aspirin. I start today.

I ordered Niacin too, I will take it at 1000mg per day, it reduces pgd2 even more. Taurine too, i will take it at 3g per day for it's anti fibrosis properties.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Do you need regrowth? Or maintenance?

What is eldarlmario's protocol exactly?

You guys are trying to achieve something that should work but it might not. I have had a couple of other guys tell me that they thought they had prostaglandins figured out but nothing for them either. I think they both gave up. This is a hard endeavor you are trying with no precedent so I am with you.