Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Georgie]

@bridgeburn i have a question.
I have noticed little areas around my body where I get a small itchy rash lately - weird places like the inside of my elbow or my shoulder. I’m also itchy all over more and more. It’s not perfume or anything because I use only hypoallergenic products. I upped my oral minoxidil and avodart around the same time three weeks ago, and I’m wondering if either of these might cause this? Did you notice itching with increased oral minoxidil, or when you began dutas? I’m worried because I know it can be a symptom of low estrogen. I’m hoping that taking avodart isn’t decimating the little estrogen I have via the pill and causing some crazy imbalance that might make matters worse.

 

[Georgie]

holy sh*t, just 50mg of cypro should be enough. and with the diane you can get female level ranges. taking that much spironolactone and cypro together will f*** your body up. plus the diane can be hard on liver too. the way it is metabolised is thought to contribute much to why it might have more complications like the increased risk of venous issues.

No I haven't been taking cypro anymore. i did take diane for 2 weeks but thats only 2mg of it. right now im on the highest dose of bio E ive ever taken. 4mg, and im pretty sure my T production is mostly fried.


yes

not necessarily dose dependent. the responsiveness to minoxidil depends ob the levels of sulfotransferase cause it needs to combine with that in order to become minoxidil sulfate, the active form of minoxidil. but the levels of sulfotransferase produced is different foreach individual. but i agree she should try more and possibly better results.

good idea
she could just take high doses of estradiol and if that doesnt work, pop extra diane.

Taking extra Diane would literally be like taking cancer, which my family has a history of. So it’s all well and good to pump up my estrogen but it doesn’t do much good if I end up with cancer, because then not only am I bald, but I’m bald with cancer. Probably far more sh*t. I’m more tempted to get some E2, cut it in half and just add an additional 1mg a day, that’s still 45mg of etrodiol which is insane.

 

[bridgeburn]

@bridgeburn i have a question.
I have noticed little areas around my body where I get a small itchy rash lately - weird places like the inside of my elbow or my shoulder. I’m also itchy all over more and more. It’s not perfume or anything because I use only hypoallergenic products. I upped my oral minoxidil and avodart around the same time three weeks ago, and I’m wondering if either of these might cause this? Did you notice itching with increased oral minoxidil, or when you began dutas? I’m worried because I know it can be a symptom of low estrogen. I’m hoping that taking avodart isn’t decimating the little estrogen I have via the pill and causing some crazy imbalance that might make matters worse.

!!!!!! you know what, I have been really itchy in certain places like my legs. sometimes my upper arm, etc. and it started around the time I upped my oral minoxidil.... I thought maybe that it was from the weather turning colder but now im thinking its the minoxidil. @Choi Han Kyul also wrote that he was itchy. I think it has something with body hair follicles. ive been rubbing cocunut oil to make it feel better.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

!!!!!! you know what, I have been really itchy in certain places like my legs. sometimes my upper arm, etc. and it started around the time I upped my oral minoxidil.... I thought maybe that it was from the weather turning colder but now im thinking its the minoxidil. @Choi Han Kyul also wrote that he was itchy. I think it has something with body hair follicles. ive been rubbing cocunut oil to make it feel better.

I am not itching anymore.
Though I am dreadful of my hair situation.

 

[bridgeburn]

Taking extra Diane would literally be like taking cancer, which my family has a history of. So it’s all well and good to pump up my estrogen but it doesn’t do much good if I end up with cancer, because then not only am I bald, but I’m bald with cancer. Probably far more sh*t. I’m more tempted to get some E2, cut it in half and just add an additional 1mg a day, that’s still 45mg of etrodiol which is insane.

yeah better safe than sorry, please don't get cancer. btw, I found something weird about breast cancer. estrogen can cause it and usually the treatment is to reduce/ block E in the breast.. but apparently taking even more estrogen can treat it too?!!

"Estrogens are responsible for breast development and, in relation to this, are strongly implicated in the development of breast cancer.[32][33] In addition, estrogens stimulate the growth and accelerate the progression of ER-positive breast cancer.[34][35] In accordance, antiestrogenslike the selective estrogen receptor modulator(SERM) tamoxifen, the ER antagonist fulvestrant, and the aromatase inhibitors (AIs) anastrozole and exemestane are all effective in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer.[36][37][38] Antiestrogens are also effective in the prevention of breast cancer.[39][40][41]

Paradoxically, HIGH-DOSE ESTROGEN THERAPY IS EFFECTIVE IN THE TREATMENT OF BREAST CANCER AS WELL and has about the same degree of effectiveness as antiestrogen therapy, although it is far less commonly used due to adverse effects.[42][43] The usefulness of high-dose estrogen therapy in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer is attributed to a bimodal effect in which high concentrations of estrogens signal breast cancer cells to undergo apoptosis, in contrast to lower concentrations of estrogens which stimulate their growth.[42][43]"

 

[Georgie]

yeah better safe than sorry, please don't get cancer. btw, I found something weird about breast cancer. estrogen can cause it and usually the treatment is to reduce/ block E in the breast.. but apparently taking even more estrogen can treat it too?!!

"Estrogens are responsible for breast development and, in relation to this, are strongly implicated in the development of breast cancer.[32][33] In addition, estrogens stimulate the growth and accelerate the progression of ER-positive breast cancer.[34][35] In accordance, antiestrogenslike the selective estrogen receptor modulator(SERM) tamoxifen, the ER antagonist fulvestrant, and the aromatase inhibitors (AIs) anastrozole and exemestane are all effective in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer.[36][37][38] Antiestrogens are also effective in the prevention of breast cancer.[39][40][41]

Paradoxically, HIGH-DOSE ESTROGEN THERAPY IS EFFECTIVE IN THE TREATMENT OF BREAST CANCER AS WELL and has about the same degree of effectiveness as antiestrogen therapy, although it is far less commonly used due to adverse effects.[42][43] The usefulness of high-dose estrogen therapy in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer is attributed to a bimodal effect in which high concentrations of estrogens signal breast cancer cells to undergo apoptosis, in contrast to lower concentrations of estrogens which stimulate their growth.[42][43]"

I always knew that estrogen was a cause of cancer because it promotes tissue growth, and my family all have history of crazy E dominance (except me) which is why so many have had breast cancer and also strokes caused my clots. But f***, that’s weird that it can TREAT cancer. So it’s like overdosing on E causes the body to destroy the estrogenic tissue that it already has. Bizarre! I am still thinking maybe an extra E2 tablet won’t hurt... given that it’s far less potent than ethinyl estradiol anyway... it’s just a little boost...

 

[Georgie]

4mg Estradiol Velarte is so expensive, that's one reason why I have to go with Diane 35. Maybe Ill try 4mg estradiol hemihydrate if I regain some density but knowing my T, it will probably comeback with a vengeance the second I stop Diane 35.

Diane35 is literally the strongest estrogen you can take. If you stop and start it sporadically, you’ll f*** yourself. Hard. I can promise you that (because I’ve been there).

 

[Georgie]

Ill f*** my self in terms of hairloss or in terms of other side effects? I don't really care about other sides, what scares me is if I stop the Diane 35s, T will be looking for revenge and I doubt a gimpy dose of Estradiol Hemihydrate could stop it. Probably staying on spironolactone and cypro would make more sense, I think that should help stop my T.

Let me put it this way: I had a mane of hair that was so thick that I didn’t even have a visible part. When I was 20, I went on the pill diane35. Before then, I had hormonal issues, but they were stable enough not to trigger hairloss. Actually my hair was insanely beautiful. I took Diane for a few months and stopped. 4 months later, the extreme dip in estrgoen exacerbated by preexisting issues, caused massive hair shedding, and started me on my androgenetic alopecia journey. It caused the shed to end all sheds. It set off DHT sensitivity, it ruined my life. Now I have to be on it forever, or the shedding starts worse again. If you are vulnerable to, or already have androgenetic alopecia and you start taking birth control, you are doomed, and it is a life sentence. Do a google search of all the women who have been through the same thing. If you want to take it consistently, be prepared for the fallout once you stop, or having to stay on it for good.

 

[Choi Han Kyul]

Diane35 is literally the strongest estrogen you can take. If you stop and start it sporadically, you’ll f*** yourself. Hard. I can promise you that (because I’ve been there).

So how do you stop it?
Tapering?

 

[Georgie]

So how do you stop it?
Tapering?

I’ve never heard of tapering, maybe it will work, but I would just say avoid taking an oral contraceptive altogether.

 

[bridgeburn]

I always knew that estrogen was a cause of cancer because it promotes tissue growth, and my family all have history of crazy E dominance (except me) which is why so many have had breast cancer and also strokes caused my clots. But f***, that’s weird that it can TREAT cancer. So it’s like overdosing on E causes the body to destroy the estrogenic tissue that it already has. Bizarre! I am still thinking maybe an extra E2 tablet won’t hurt... given that it’s far less potent than ethinyl estradiol anyway... it’s just a little boost...

Estrogen is complicated... just like women

 

[bridgeburn]

I always knew that estrogen was a cause of cancer because it promotes tissue growth, and my family all have history of crazy E dominance (except me) which is why so many have had breast cancer and also strokes caused my clots. But f***, that’s weird that it can TREAT cancer. So it’s like overdosing on E causes the body to destroy the estrogenic tissue that it already has. Bizarre! I am still thinking maybe an extra E2 tablet won’t hurt... given that it’s far less potent than ethinyl estradiol anyway... it’s just a little boost...

maybe this is why women usually get breast cancer after menopause when E production is reduced. Maybe its the middle ground which is most dangerous but having a really low amount or really high amount is safer in regards to cancer?

 

[bridgeburn]

Ill f*** my self in terms of hairloss or in terms of other side effects? I don't really care about other sides, what scares me is if I stop the Diane 35s, T will be looking for revenge and I doubt a gimpy dose of Estradiol Hemihydrate could stop it. Probably staying on spironolactone and cypro would make more sense, I think that should help stop my T.

if you take E for long enough time you will experience some level of testicular atrophy and your T production might not come back for a long time even after you stop taking it. The same can't be said for antiandrogens used alone. this is a reason many transwomen get sperm frozen before HRT.

Diane35 is literally the strongest estrogen you can take. If you stop and start it sporadically, you’ll f*** yourself. Hard. I can promise you that (because I’ve been there).

The disadvantage about Ethynl E though is that the elevation in SHBG takes a long time to go down after stopping and actually I heard it described as semi-permanent before. this could make it difficult to switch from Diane to Estradiol unless theres adequate enough androgen production to take space on the SHBG.

probably this would be more problamatic for males with shrunken balls.

 

[michel sapin]

hey man, can you post an hairline pics ?
because with your long hair we can't see your temple

 

[rclark]

my avatar pic taken Dec.15th and on the left was May 22 before I started anything antiandrogenic. (the white stuff is miconazle i had on my scalp, I was hoping Swiss temples was gunnna save me)

View attachment 75556

Last night I was watching a movie with Nick Jonas in it.

I was hoping he was going to crash his plane, and die, because he is a known full head.

And then, for some reason, I thought of you.

 

[bridgeburn]

hey man, can you post an hairline pics ?
because with your long hair we can't see your temple

I've been updating pretty regularly with temple hairline pics. The last time was recently with a pic from 12/29/2017 I was planning to wait at least another 2 weeks from now before posting another one.

 

[bridgeburn]

Last night I was watching a movie with Nick Jonas in it.

I was hoping he was going to crash his plane, and die, because he is a known full head.

And then, for some reason, I thought of you.

!

 

[rclark]

!

On a positive note, your hair density is looking really good.

Please don't report me to the mods.

 

[DHTpolice]

Isn't HLH dead these days?

Yasmin is one of the good birth control pills for hair! it's progestin is not androgenic. https://www.wdxcyber.com/ncontr132.html?osm=1
3 pills every f*****g day, whoa!

Lol

Yes, completely dead. Admin promised to revive it, but forgot.
I was lurking it since 2016, many interesting things were discussed there.

At the beginning I was considering to use Qlaira (estradiol valerate + dienogest) or Yasmin, they seemed to be somewhat safer. I chose Diane 35 only due to its high dose of EE and cypro as a progestin. Also lots of people who regrew their hairlines on it.

 

[bridgeburn]

Yes, completely dead. Admin promised to revive it, but forgot.
I was lurking it since 2016, many interesting things were discussed there.

At the beginning I was considering to use Qlaira (estradiol valerate + dienogest) or Yasmin, they seemed to be somewhat safer. I chose Diane 35 only due to its high dose of EE and cypro as a progestin. Also lots of people who regrew their hairlines on it.

kinda sad this is the only popular english hairloss forumn now. I really hope I never get banned or have my thread deleted.