Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

keepcoolmybabies

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I would ponder on other points later - when I get time, but that spironolactone is a weak anti-androgen is simply a myth. If somebody take say 50mg then yes it is in most cases.
It works in three ways - blocks receptors just like Bicalutamide, reduces testosterone (in most cases), has estrogenic effects (which can be pretty potent at higher dosages. Note however that a higher dose may not works at all and/or may have opposite effect. Taker of this medicine has to know what s/he want with it and adjust accordingly).

I've seen so much conflicting info in regards to whether spironolactone can or can't lower T levels, including multiple studies. The initial study that is used as the basis for why it's included in transgender HRT regimens was conducted in the late 80's. It concluded that spironolactone + E had a bigger impact on bringing T levels to female ranges than E alone. The biggest flaw with the study, however, is that it didn't account for the fact that participants were concurrently using medroxyprogesterone, which a more recent study has concluded was the biggest reason for the difference in T levels.

Speaking from personal experience, however, I've been on a combo of spironolactone and E for about 10 months. The first couple months I was at 4mg E and 100mg spironolactone. Blood tests then showed my T at 40ng/ml. I then upped dosages to 6mg E and 150mg spironolactone and T fell to 15ng/ml. Since then i've switched to estradiol injections and lowered my spironolactone dosage to 100mg and my T ranges between 12 to 16ng/ml. Injections are known to substantially lower T levels, but not so much sublingual unless it's at extreme dosages. My E level on sublingual pills never went above 140pg/ml, however, so I'm not sure if that's sufficient enough to completely quash T to the levels I've experienced. Thus I'm not entirely sure if spironolactone has contributed to the low T levels, but it seems likely.
 

I'mme

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I've seen so much conflicting info in regards to whether spironolactone can or can't lower T levels, including multiple studies. The initial study that is used as the basis for why it's included in transgender HRT regimens was conducted in the late 80's. It concluded that spironolactone + E had a bigger impact on bringing T levels to female ranges than E alone. The biggest flaw with the study, however, is that it didn't account for the fact that participants were concurrently using medroxyprogesterone, which a more recent study has concluded was the biggest reason for the difference in T levels.

Speaking from personal experience, however, I've been on a combo of spironolactone and E for about 10 months. The first couple months I was at 4mg E and 100mg spironolactone. Blood tests then showed my T at 40ng/ml. I then upped dosages to 6mg E and 150mg spironolactone and T fell to 15ng/ml. Since then i've switched to estradiol injections and lowered my spironolactone dosage to 100mg and my T ranges between 12 to 16ng/ml. Injections are known to substantially lower T levels, but not so much sublingual unless it's at extreme dosages. My E level on sublingual pills never went above 140pg/ml, however, so I'm not sure if that's sufficient enough to completely quash T to the levels I've experienced. Thus I'm not entirely sure if spironolactone has contributed to the low T levels, but it seems likely.
Agree w everything you say. It increases T in some people because they use it with combo "finasteride + dutasteride" or w finasteride or dutasteride. Now both decreases activity of 5ar. Now spironolactone also decreases 5-alpha reductase activity via increased clearance of testosterone secondary to augmented liver hydroxylase activity. This way they increase way too much T and spironolactone AA effects becomes weaker. There are couple of other factors as well.
But please don't take anything I say as full truth - I'm still researching on it. I was just stating that it is not as bad as people make it out to be.
 

I'mme

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I've seen so much conflicting info in regards to whether spironolactone can or can't lower T levels, including multiple studies. The initial study that is used as the basis for why it's included in transgender HRT regimens was conducted in the late 80's. It concluded that spironolactone + E had a bigger impact on bringing T levels to female ranges than E alone. The biggest flaw with the study, however, is that it didn't account for the fact that participants were concurrently using medroxyprogesterone, which a more recent study has concluded was the biggest reason for the difference in T levels.

Speaking from personal experience, however, I've been on a combo of spironolactone and E for about 10 months. The first couple months I was at 4mg E and 100mg spironolactone. Blood tests then showed my T at 40ng/ml. I then upped dosages to 6mg E and 150mg spironolactone and T fell to 15ng/ml. Since then i've switched to estradiol injections and lowered my spironolactone dosage to 100mg and my T ranges between 12 to 16ng/ml. Injections are known to substantially lower T levels, but not so much sublingual unless it's at extreme dosages. My E level on sublingual pills never went above 140pg/ml, however, so I'm not sure if that's sufficient enough to completely quash T to the levels I've experienced. Thus I'm not entirely sure if spironolactone has contributed to the low T levels, but it seems likely.
If you notice very few people has taken oral Spironolactone 200 mg for more than 6 months and it has worked for all of them.
It effectiveness was less seen by @Father_of_Shiseido because he was using it with 2.5mg Duta, which is an insane dose.
 
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I'mme

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Guys I'm getting flacky skin (kinda peeling) from use of tretinoin, is that normal? It is like flakes we get from scalp stimes.
 

Ikarus

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If you are using it on your face and you are experiencing what you are experiencing, that means you are using it too often. Tretinoin is meant to train your skin to behave; peeling and flakey skin isn’t skin which is behaving. How often do you use it?
 

I'mme

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If you are using it on your face and you are experiencing what you are experiencing, that means you are using it too often. Tretinoin is meant to train your skin to behave; peeling and flakey skin isn’t skin which is behaving. How often do you use it?
Started 3 days before. Actually, it is with hydroquinone and a steroid. I bought this cream to treat a small sign where I had brown skin. But since It has retain A, started applying in on face.
 

Itsnoahkennedy

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More options?
Their only good option is E-ckeck at least to those who it is available to. The other option are money order or check by mail and that takes foreverrr. So i just do E-check and transfer the money from my bank.
 

Ikarus

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Started 3 days before. Actually, it is with hydroquinone and a steroid. I bought this cream to treat a small sign where I had brown skin. But since It has retain A, started applying in on face.

Don't use that on your face... That's such a powerful trio to use on your face!
 

itchymadscalp

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DHTcel is doing what Itchymadsclap did: not giving treatments enough time and continously tinkering with them.

I've been on strong AA for 2.5 years ... and I lost 70% of my hair on the top, and I will remain on Lupron + Estradiol for at least 3 years.
I should give up, because I know it's useless but I cannot accept it. You cannot say I don't give my treatments enough time, even doctors told me to stop so many times.
 

Itsnoahkennedy

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Completely unrelated to hair loss, and this probably isn't the best place to ask, but does anyone have PTSD or know how to ease it, would xanax work? I have really bad intrusive thoughts since 2018 and it's really stressful to where it disrupts my daily life, and the internet isn't really clear on a best treatment for it. Do any of you have any experience with that ?
 
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Itsnoahkennedy

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Masculine traits are a result of two types of receptor binding to androgen molecules.
  1. In the first type, the receptors don't have any effect on the gene expression via any method and has more of a temporary androgen dependent effect, like
    • Muscle Development, because it's easier to store androgens which bind to proteins in muscles which just so happens to be a storage house of proteins like creatinine. (Estrogens are easily stored in fat cells, because why not. Their structure closely resemble lipids like their precursor cholesterol and can dissolve in lipid storing cells. And then there's aromatase storing too there).
    • Libido and male aggression, where androgens kind of have an effect that can trigger required neurotransmitters for this kind of effects. (Androgens aren't the only hormones that affect neurotransmitters to make people aggressive. We have things like cortisol, and adrenaline. An opposite effect is observed due to estrogens which bind to same receptors as androgens, progestogens which compete with cortisols for receptor binding sites, and norepinephrine that competes with adrenaline. Other hormones that affect neurotransmitters are melatonin, insulin, etc.)
    • Sebum and texture of stratum coreneum, which is temporarily affected by the messed up lipid barrier of the skin, because androgens don't like lipids. They like proteins and thus the skin becomes stiff and rough and dry, which the sebaceous glands try to improve by increased sebum production, but fail to do so.
    • Erections
    • Bone density (and not bone shape and size)
  2. In the second type, the receptors affect the gene expression inside the cells giving a more permanent and androgen independent effect, like
    • Facial hair and body hair
    • Bone shape and size (estrogens also have permanent effects here)
    • Shape of eyebrows and nose (estrogens also have permanent effects here)
    • Voice deepening
    • Size of penis
Gene expression:
When an individual is born, he/she is programmed with a set of bodily changes that'll be observed at a certain age or on exposure to certain substances. The information of these changes is stored in the genes. Now, these genes can only be expressed when they are first transcribed and then translated.
The above changes mentioned under gene expression happen after male puberty when respective receptors are exposed to androgen molecules.
Now, in order to stop the gene expression until puberty, the DNA molecule is folded in such a way that the transcription enzymes can't bind to the gene and form its respective RNA molecule. Exposure to androgen molecules makes the DNA unfold permanently in such a way that the gene is exposed to the transcription enzymes. These enzymes bind to the gene, transcribe it, form RNA, RNA translates in ribosome, proteins are formed and gene is expressed.
Since the unfolding is permanent, the masculinization is permanent.

That means Spironolactone or any anti-androgen can't change anything and surgery is necessary for a change, unless you can affect gene expression. Bicalutamide has corepressor function, and it prevents the transcription enzymes from binding to the DNA temporarily. Thus, RNA is not formed and gene expression is halted. Dioxin reverses the unfolding of DNA and folds it again permanently.

So, there is no way you're gonna see reversal of any of the masculine traits mentioned under the gene expression category.
As for the first category, it's not considered as feminizatiom at all. And particularly, Spironolactone is a very weak anti-androgen, so you'll see no change except sebum production, but that's not because of its anti-androgenic effects, I presume, because you'll still have rough and dry skin.

@Ein is it pointless to take dutasteride with bicalutamide/cyproterone acetate and estrogen? do i need dutasteride to get the full effect of this therapy, if i do need it, then i will order a years supply of it tonight.
 
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Itsnoahkennedy

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I tried but I failed lol. I just hope I'm able to regrow with spironolactone with minimum to no sides.

Tbh, you look better now. You didn't have features to become top-tier /alpha male, whereas now ur face looks sweet as well as cute. More or less is the case with me.

Below is what i used to look like, my face has changed subtly, i actually really enjoy the fem-boy look that's taking place but i know i will change more as fat moves around lol.

I posted them all in order, the lights are different but you can still see the subtle changes in my face over the course of the last 4 months, especially comparing the first and last pic (if my mind isn't playing tricks on me).
 

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Yar

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@Ein is it pointless to take dutasteride with bicalutamide/cyproterone acetate and estrogen? do i need dutasteride to get the full effect of this therapy, if i do need it, then i will order a years supply of it tonight.
dutasterid and what is it for you if it increases testosterone?
 

I'mme

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Below is what i used to look like, my face has changed subtly, i actually really enjoy the fem-boy look that's taking place but i know i will change more as fat moves around lol.

I posted them all in order, the lights are different but you can still see the subtle changes in my face over the course of the last 4 months, especially comparing the first and last pic (if my mind isn't playing tricks on me).
You looked like a typical soyboy lolol.now you look a little better. Given the type of your face, it should improve further.
 

bridgeburn

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Below is what i used to look like, my face has changed subtly, i actually really enjoy the fem-boy look that's taking place but i know i will change more as fat moves around lol.

I posted them all in order, the lights are different but you can still see the subtle changes in my face over the course of the last 4 months, especially comparing the first and last pic (if my mind isn't playing tricks on me).
sexy
 

I'mme

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New product for those who can't/don't want to use minoxidil and also for those who use minoxidil but want to improve quality of their hair.

My dermatologist prescribed me a product for regrowth, which was not minoxidil as he thought my hairloss is due to Vitb12 deficiency.
Now that product may not be as capable as minoxidil (maybe less, maybe more, maybe ymmy), but it has loads of growth factors and proven herbs/components like biotin, caffeine etc. It is in serum form which you have to spray.

It's name is "Seskavel Anti-hair Loss lotion". Don't go by name - doesn't seems to have androgen blockers, so unlikely to halt hairloss. Though has proven growth modulants and alot other things which shall assist growth and make (may make?) our hair very healthy/thick individual stands.
 
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