What Nobody Gets Right:
1. None of you titrate your doses
2. None of you can stop tinkering; This is a cis-male thing; we tinker but if you can't leave your hands off the dial for a few months, then the situation is impenetrable.
3. None of you are using enough estradiol.
4. There are a lot of whiners on MtF transition sites and this site is similar.
5. You either do this like
@bridgeburn or don't bother.
I believe that there is a huge amount of confusion regarding estrogen in the MtF community and some of that bleeds over to here. We still have huge gaps in knowledge but it appears that MtF's, at least initially, might have to opt for either breasts or hair but not both. Why? Because mega-doses of estrogen tend to halt breast growth immediately and forever for MtFs. Since everyone uses too much estrogen all through HRT, our fora are choked with whiners about breasts. By the way, not everyone on HRT even gets external results so we have tons of these familiar posts: "Help! HRT is not working for me". People on HRT feel entitled to cis-female-like breast growth and that just doesn't happen for many of us. I mean, it did to me but probably because I used too little estrogen starting out and took many breaks from my DIY beginnings on HRT.
So, on the MtF side, initially, at least, it appears that MtFs have to choose either a breast goal or a hair goal but not both. Why? Because hair regrowth requires far more estrogen than does breast growth. I know because I looked exactly like a female from the neck down for several years and I got no "results" above my neck, except my eyes opened up some. So, I was a really hot babe from the neck down and still an aging troll from the neck up. I started HRT on .30 mg of Premarin, a well-known contraceptive composed of the different natural estrogens found in female pregnant horses. Premarin is slightly stronger than estradiol but not that much so say .5 mg of estradiol titrated upwards after six months to .625 mg. This was my whole first year of formal HRT which most indicate is too small a dose to cause any feminization at all, nor was I taking an AA except for dutasteride and finasteride. This was because I am non-binary and I was trying to avoid breast growth. Ha ha says my Goddess above. "I will give you great youth and beauty but outstanding breasts are non-negotiable if you want your locks back".
The Goddess above has given hair to females. Men are silly. Abundant, flowing locks aren't for them. With Brad Pitt being a one in a million exception but still, Mr. Pitt's own wife, Jenn, still has better hair and it's not that close. These boy bands that people keep posting, yes, they have great density but it comes in the form of a hair helmet, Who wants that? Female caucasian hair is the most sexually dimorphic hair not just in terms of growth but also in terms of color, plus whites have more shades of hair than other races (sorry, race is rarely relevant but with hair, you can't not mention race). Then there is thing with hairlines being too low. It looks crappy. AntiDHTor or whoever, to me looked absolutely hideous with his regrowth. He went from a normal, nice male head of hair with recession that was barely cosmetically significant to Eddie Munster and literally had hair all over his face where it didn't belong.
So here's the gig. Because far more estrogen is needed to grow hair than even big breasts, you guys have to pass through the breast stage at the beginning but the hair regrowth stage only happens at the end. Why are my breasts so developed? Well, I started with estriol, bi-estro cream and then tiny amounts of E, titrated upwards every six months. This is an extremely conservative protocol and it did the opposite of what I expected. Instead it drew out my "2nd puberty" and my breasts now have been growing for six plus years and my hair still isn't quite finished although my hairline appears to be dropping rapidly.
So paradoxically, those of you using tiny amounts of E as part of your cocktail are probably doing the opposite of what you mean to. Instead, you guys should flood your systems (within reason, always titrate if you have sides) right from the beginning. That has a good chance of fusing your breast ducts right away and voila, like 90 percent of MtFs on HRT, you will experience little to no breast growth. Then you want to continue titrating upwards until you meet the Wpath target numbers for E and T.
Here's what's different. The MtF community argues vociferously about every single med and every single ingestion method. We are tinkerers just like you folks but for MtFs the focus is all but invariably breast growth and not hair regrowth. Maybe because breast growth is semi-permanent or maybe because so many of us even with full heads of hair simply don't have the right look with our own hair. Anyway, if people come to for instance, AskMtFHrT, they are going to basically only discuss new protocols or how to improve protocols but always it is directed towards improving breast growth. Unlike what folks think, MtFs struggle to grow breasts at all.
So, for growing boobs, a lower-dose estrogen protocol is called for and boobs can grow big with marginal amounts of estrogen and no t-blockers. You don't have to come anywhere close to meeting proposed targets for breast growth. For results above the neck, however, in my experience, an MtF needs to hit Wpath targets or only marginal hair improvement is possible/likely.
So first of all, none of you are using enough estrogen which is the inverse of the MtF community where people use far too much starting out, chasing "results". Second, you have got to meet these Wpath targets for some consecutive period of time before you are likely to see results. There is a well-known article cited previously on here from 2016 related to spironolactone and the need to hit targets to restart hair growth and then maintain these targets. FtMs go bald right off the bat so that's of no interest except to show that T is involved and seriously involved in male pattern baldness.
A crux of the article is that it's hard to hit targets for many MtFs and this is where the AA's and progestins come in. E2 only works fine for hair regrowth with nothing else (except Duta for protection against missing targets) but particularly for those who ingest tablets and swallow them, using an AA like Bicalutamide or spironolactone or Cyproterone Acetate can ensure that they hit target E on much less estrogen. Buccal and Sublingual folks don't have to worry about this but I don't believe that they have better "results". It's just cheaper to go the buccal method if you don't have health insurance buying your meds, which I do.
Instead, you guys tend to use marginal amounts of estrogen, often without an AA and that seems to just be a recipe for frustration. I was using topical E years ago and getting minimal results related to hair improvement. My breasts were big and full but not my hair so even though I am non-binary, I decided that I had to try to hit targets now for six months to a year before desisting. You guys give up on everything right away. You all moan about these multitude of sides that strangely enough, MtFs don't tend to get and then you give up.
So, in May, I stopped using 200 mg of spironolactone daily and dropped finasteride since it was unlikely to provide any benefits not supplied by dutasteride and I switched from premarin, which is highly controversial in the MtF community to Climara 100 patches and bam, I hit targets right away and I had never even come close before. I am entering month five of my estrogen blast-off and all has been photographed and I will see if the hairline finally comes down but mostly I expect thickening and changes in texture and ability to grow it long. Always, the temples come last and I have some opinions on why that is and also as to why beards might be incompatible for most guys who want perfect hair.
My initial goal had been to help transgender females over college age learn to pass but that is fraught with danger and not worth the hassle because of our community's rigid groupthink. We are not suppose to even intimate that a large percentage of older "gals" as is the term that we go by, look like hell. Instead, our motto is that all women are beautiful.
Um....no, they are not and many transgender females don't appear to even be trying; they can just say that they are non-binary nowadays though. Well, I am non-binary but between hair and big breasts and marginal dutasteride guy hair and no breasts, that is an easy choice for me; I already reproduced and was married to a beautiful woman.
Long story short, since I am verbose, 1) use more estradiol and titrate upwards towards Wpath target E and T levels as fast as possible to minimize breast growth and then get you to the target regions where hair regrowth is greatly facilitated and 2) Stay on a regimen for at least six months and try not to keep adding and subtracting things. Of course, I am a tinkerer too but I am only in this for the hair and I am not ashamed to admit it but being female is addictive and many of you won't want to come back:
Here is a bit of creative writing that I have done related to entering the Goddess's domain and not wanting ever to leave:
"A funny thing happened to me on my way to the ball. I don't disavow anything prior to this and deep down, I knew that this was probably going to happen....
But I must confess that the Goddess took a hold of me, and when the Goddess called, I was powerless not to follow, powerless not to emulate Her.
So all that stuff about being non-binary.... well, I have moved on but since I am one who doesn't claim to be "female", I still feel as though I am somewhere in between "female" and mtf non-binary.
I have become captured by the experience and it is now too late for me to escape. I don't want to escape.
Beware all who enter here that this might be a one-way ticket in that I think that estrogen can become like a drug and like any drug that you like, you just want more and more.
There's definitely, for me, an ecstasy, an euphoria from taking estrogen. So if you just want to see what breasts are like or just want to see if estrogen improves your hair, and then slip back to what you were before, well there's a good chance that you won't make it back. Just saying.... Be careful what you wish for.
Beware to all those who enter and taste estrogen's wonderful delights. It's like the Greek sirens who pull you in and in and in and then you happily dive right in. Many enter the Goddess's chambers, very few of us ever leave".
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
"Relax," said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave....
Eagles-Hotel California-1976
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