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This is my fathers head lol, does not look good for me boyo.
Like literally no hair, only small miniaturized patches on the occipital, that's it.
Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
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This is my fathers head lol, does not look good for me boyo.
Like literally no hair, only small miniaturized patches on the occipital, that's it.
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Why not oral minoxidil at 5mg, twice a day like @bridgeburn. I am thinking about going up to 12.5mg twice a day because it seems to work so well.
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I want to firstly know which medication works, I know Minoxidil will work 100% but I want to rule out some meds, so I wont end up dribking all and hurting my liver. Ykwim?
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Makes sense. I thought you were desperate so at least we have avoided that low feeling. That's a good idea.
Yeah you're really swimming upstream... Again, not to sound like a broken record with you, but it is very good that you at least are starting as early as you can. You may have to do something similar to the Noah dude, hit it hard and then pull out. Maybe try low dosages or a short but heavy cycles, pull out and then try to maintain on dutasteride.
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Yeah. That's a good point. I lost hair young at 19 but my father still has a full head of hair in his 80's as does my mother.
As bald as PLS's father is, I mean, yikes. Now I get his urgency. I wonder if estradiol could do anything for that big bald scalp. There is virtually no fringe hair.
I mean at the end of the day, my question really is: can we treat feminizing drugs like we do masculinizing ones? That is, can we use multi-faceted HRT at either low doses for a bit longer or heavy doses for a brief period, and hoping we can return to baseline hormonally? We KNOW that we can cycle anabolic steroids this way, and our endogenous T / HPA axis will return to normal afterwards.
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I am looking at all of my meds because otherwise you have sort of max'ed out and you might want to adjust dosages upwards. But I see progesterone and medroxyprogesterone both of which might help hair but they also lower testosterone, which is how they work. Anything else and you would just be feeding breast growth. Bica raises E2 but it allows for fairly high T levels. I think that's why Almas touts it.
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My hair feel different, but no cosmetic difference just yet. I feel like I've got some regrowth, but I can't see it on photos yet.
Are you recommending I add CB and alfatradiol.
I've got E2 but I've not used it yet.
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Marky's the one to ask. I think he is cycling HRT and he definitely has all of his hair and it looks like male hair.
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I am not recommending either one of them but you seemed to be fishing for ideas. Alfatradiol might really only work well for cis-females. I have never seen any impressive pics for any of these, nor Ru really but maybe they are out there but not posting.
The hesitancy I have about recommending E2 to you is that the more that you use, the better it works, apparently and for truly great results you might end up at cis-female adult estrogen targets. Oral min is a bit like this perhaps also.
So I saw a little something when I first used OTC E2 and E3 but eh, it wasn't worth the hassle and cost really. The other thing is that I did have significant body feminization even when the hair part wasn't working. This makes me think that there is a reason why males using HRT for hair loss isn't a thing. I think that you have to become chemically female for above the neck results and that can take a fair amount of time while all the time you are exposed to breast growth. Now I don't think breast growth is as permanent as they say says the person with D cups. Even if I stopped HRT and used raloxi, it's probably too late but I became more and more okay with that. About 2 years ago, I was up to a B or a C and nowhere close to my hair goals so my decision was that I knew this could and would work so onward I continue.
Once I went to unlimited amounts of estradiol and added oral min at 12.5mg, the regrowth became thrilling, it was coming in so fast and it finally was looking good worn long not like a hobo like six years back. I can still see the remnants of what used to be mullet-y hair but it is relaxing and looking nicer and nicer long. I haven't posted in a while because maybe it is more dramatic sometimes to wait. So so close to my life-time dream since the age of 20 which was to have back my 16 year old hair again.
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Thanks to all of the folks who post here. One thing that is nice during a plague where we are isolated is having other people root for you. There is also a real-time aspect to this that is sort of fascinating with people providing instant feedback about sides and the like.
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Ticken,
If you are out there, have you tried Alfatradiol? I saw a study that I should have kept the link for, that said that it was effective for females when used with minoxidil. I don't think it does much for guys in isolation. I am not sure that it is synergistic either. If more meds were synergistic, maybe this wouldn't be so hard!
If you are out there, have you tried Alfatradiol? I saw a study that I should have kept the link for, that said that it was effective for females when used with minoxidil. I don't think it does much for guys in isolation. I am not sure that it is synergistic either. If more meds were synergistic, maybe this wouldn't be so hard!
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So this is a thread from an acquaintance of mine with great all around knowledge of HRT. I am not thrilled by this because she was using parenteral estradiol and now blames it for several blood clots. The thinking has been that mostly pills cause clotting issues and liver issues but she also was maintaining pregnancy levels of estradiol for six years. I reach a year in June some time.
@bridgeburn was also taking a fair amount of synthetic stuff and maybe somebody can estimate his E2 levels but my guess is always above 300 pg/ml and often much closer to 1,000 pg/ml. He did not test which could further increase the risk. I am going to test tomorrow and I am curious to see what I hit because I ran out of estradiol for a couple of days this week and then my PA asked me to test before renewing my patches which have worked so great with the estrogel. I am out of Estrogel for the first time in a year and I am debating whether to buy ten more tubs, lol, I need tubs, but tubes rather, but cha-ching at some point. I have spent scandalous amounts on Estrogel and that's at the one third of the price off-shore prices.
Because I can always get more Estrogel, cutting me off from patches does little but I don't want to take on more risk than necessary to reach my goals. On the other hand, because hair restoration often seems to be dependent on reaching thresholds, I was tired of slow titration for five years that hadn't gone very far. Since then Zoom! Two patches plus 1.25 Premarin plus unlimited Estrogel plus 12.5mg daily of oral min and Zoom, Zoom! YMMV.
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JaneyElizabeth
just now
Sigh. So six years. I am going to assume that maintaining first trimester levels ~2,600 for ten months is no different from being pregnant but I guess you were pregnant for six years running.
I am doing hair research and it is going stunningly well but I don't intend to stay up here forever.
Was there some particular effect you were seeking?
I am very sorry. I hope you have a fast recovery. There's a reason some times why people are absolute experts so maybe Goddess wanted you to pull back a little. We can all get obsessive about the power we feel over our bodies via HRT. For me, so far, everything has worked uncannily and I struggle with how much of that is luck and how much has to do with my accumulation of research and my willingness to at least bear some extra risk.
Goddess bless,
Janey
@bridgeburn was also taking a fair amount of synthetic stuff and maybe somebody can estimate his E2 levels but my guess is always above 300 pg/ml and often much closer to 1,000 pg/ml. He did not test which could further increase the risk. I am going to test tomorrow and I am curious to see what I hit because I ran out of estradiol for a couple of days this week and then my PA asked me to test before renewing my patches which have worked so great with the estrogel. I am out of Estrogel for the first time in a year and I am debating whether to buy ten more tubs, lol, I need tubs, but tubes rather, but cha-ching at some point. I have spent scandalous amounts on Estrogel and that's at the one third of the price off-shore prices.
Because I can always get more Estrogel, cutting me off from patches does little but I don't want to take on more risk than necessary to reach my goals. On the other hand, because hair restoration often seems to be dependent on reaching thresholds, I was tired of slow titration for five years that hadn't gone very far. Since then Zoom! Two patches plus 1.25 Premarin plus unlimited Estrogel plus 12.5mg daily of oral min and Zoom, Zoom! YMMV.
/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
level 1
JaneyElizabeth
just now
Sigh. So six years. I am going to assume that maintaining first trimester levels ~2,600 for ten months is no different from being pregnant but I guess you were pregnant for six years running.
I am doing hair research and it is going stunningly well but I don't intend to stay up here forever.
Was there some particular effect you were seeking?
I am very sorry. I hope you have a fast recovery. There's a reason some times why people are absolute experts so maybe Goddess wanted you to pull back a little. We can all get obsessive about the power we feel over our bodies via HRT. For me, so far, everything has worked uncannily and I struggle with how much of that is luck and how much has to do with my accumulation of research and my willingness to at least bear some extra risk.
Goddess bless,
Janey
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Honestly, is there any 'good' donor hair? XD
I am 19 years old, will my hips grow in 6-9 months?
Muscles ... I will become like a prisoner of Auschwitz if I lose them. Or soft-bodied
There is an option to try 2mg E, but I don't know if it will grow the hair back. And if I have to use them longer to get the result, the accumulated effects may be the same as from 4mg
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In my opinion, Alfatradiol seems to be underrated. Maybe the 0.025% it's not very much or maybe is enough for others, but with higher doses, someone might achieve better results. Forget it to act like a DHT blocker when someone is already on Finasteride or Dutasteride because the latters will do the job, outpeforming Alfatradiol in the 5AR blockade. The interesting part of Alfatradiol is the increment in Aromatase Activity and the capability to block 17β-HSD. We know that Aromatase is so important for Hair Follicles and I believe that's the most interesting part of Alfatradiol. Furthermore, as much as it can block the 17β-HSD it's a plus as well, because is blocking the conversion of T to Androstenedione, thus promoting the conversion to the Estrogens, Estrone and Estradiol. Only problem is the ERα receptor binding affinity.
1)https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412238/ (Mechanism)
In the treatment of androgenetic alopecia, the action mechanism of 17α-estradiol is to suppress 5α-reductase activity, which impedes the conversion of testosterone to the more potent metabolite DHT. In addition, it inhibits 17β-dehydrogenase activity, resulting in a slowing of the conversion process of androstenedione to testosterone. As a result, there is a reduction in the syntheses of testosterone and DHT. On the other hand, by stimulating aromatase, the conversion of testosterone to estradiol is accelerated, hence, testosterone is reduced. It thus acts to ultimately reduce DHT. In addition, it has been reported to accelerate the generation of hair follicular matrix cells.
2)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9284093/ (Aromatase/5AR levels on Scalp)
Findings revealed that both women and men have higher levels of receptors and 5alpha-reductase type I and II in frontal hair follices than in occipital follicles, whereas higher levels of aromatase were found in their occipital follicles. There are marked quantitative differences in levels of androgen receptors and the three enzymes, which we find to be primarily in the outer root sheath of the hair follicles in the two genders. Androgen receptor content in female frontal hair follicles was approximately 40% lower than in male frontal hair follicle. Cytochrome P-450-aromatase content in women's frontal hair follicles was six times greater than in frontal hair follicles in men. Frontal hair follicles in women had 3 and 3.5 times less 5alpha-reductase type I and II, respectively, than frontal hair follicles in men. These differences in levels of androgen receptor and steroid-converting enzymes may account for the different clinical presentations of androgenetic alopecia in women and men.
3)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12190948/ (17a-Estradiol Induces Aromatase Activity)
For topical treatment of androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) in women, solutions containing either estradiol benzoate, estradiol valerate, 17beta- or 17alpha-estradiol are commercially available in Europe and some studies show an increased anagen and decreased telogen rate after treatment as compared with placebo. At present it is not precisely known how estrogens mediate their beneficial effect on Androgenetic Alopecia-affected hair follicles. We have shown recently that 17alpha-estradiol is able to diminish the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formed by human hair follicles after incubation with testosterone, while increasing the concentration of weaker steroids such as estrogens. Because aromatase is involved in the conversion of testosterone to estrogens and because there is some clinical evidence that aromatase activity may be involved in the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia, we addressed the question whether aromatase is expressed in human hair follicles and whether 17alpha-estradiol is able to modify the aromatase activity. Herewith we were able to demonstrate that intact, microdissected hair follicles from female donors express considerably more aromatase activity than hair follicles from male donors. Using immunohistochemistry, we detected the aromatase mainly in the epithelial parts of the hair follicle and not in the dermal papilla. Furthermore, we show that in comparison to the controls, we noticed in 17alpha-estradiol-incubated (1 nM) female hair follicles a concentration- and time-dependent increase of aromatase activity (at 24 h: 1 nM = +18%, 100 nM = +25%, 1 micro M = +57%; 24 h: 1 nM = +18%, 48 h: 1 nM = +25%). In conclusion, our ex vivo experiments suggest that under the influence of 17alpha-estradiol an increased conversion of testosterone to 17beta-estradiol and androstendione to estrone takes place, which might explain the beneficial effects of estrogen treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia.
4) Affinities:
Other investigators have found diverse affinities, as well: Kuiper et al. (1997) [44] reported an affinity of 17 α-E2 to ERα of 58% of the relative affinity of 17 β-E2, and 11% to ERβ, while Torand-Allerand et al. (2005) [26] reported an affinity of 17 α-E2 binding to human recombinant ERα and ERβ of 51 and 64% compared to 17 β-E2, respectively. Kaur et al. (2015) [45] indicated an affinity of 17 α-E2 to ERα to be 40-times lower than 17 β-E2.”
5)General Information for 17a-Estradiol (Recent):
Health benefits attributed to 17α-estradiol, a lifespan-extending compound, are mediated through estrogen receptor α
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.02.130674v1.full (or here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289482/)6) Comparison with Topical Finasteride: (But the thing here is: What if you combine them? Different Mechanisms and you need to yield every possible positive effect)
Efficacy of Topical Finasteride 0.5% vs 17α-Estradiol 0.05% in the Treatment of Postmenopausal Female Pattern Hair Loss: A Retrospective, Single-Blind Study of 119 Patients - PMC
Female pattern hair loss (FPHL) is a common form of scalp hair loss that occurs in 38% of females. Currently, minoxidil solution is the only therapy approved by the US Food and Drug Administration, but many other treatments are used, including ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Efficacy of Topical Finasteride 0.5% vs 17α-Estradiol 0.05% in the Treatment of Postmenopausal Female Pattern Hair Loss: A Retrospective, Single-Blind Study of 119 Patients.
Hope I shed some light. Thank you.
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It helped me a lot, just caused extreme depression too.