Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[HelpMyHair!!]

Anybody have a recommendation on which Estrogen to use, and how much to add to Finasteride? This thread is confusing, bi-estro, estrogel, oestrogen, buccal, sublingual, etc etc.

On finasteride 1mg ED right now, don't want start minoxidil, unless it's a last resort. Looking for a recommendation on a good starting dose of topical E, and exactly which type/brand if possible?

finasteride is working/stabilizing me, but I need to add something (not min) to try and stimulate more growth.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Anybody have a recommendation on which Estrogen to use, and how much to add to Finasteride? This thread is confusing, bi-estro, estrogel, oestrogen, buccal, sublingual, etc etc.

On finasteride 1mg ED right now, don't want start minoxidil, unless it's a last resort. Looking for a recommendation on a good starting dose of topical E, and exactly which type/brand if possible?

finasteride is working/stabilizing me, but I need to add something (not min) to try and stimulate more growth.

It is confusing because we know that this can work. We just don't know what parameters matter and which don't, or even which might help some but not be worth the hassle. Using Estrogel is more expensive and for some, a hassle to apply and it is very difficult to prove that it works better than just using pills but most of us, I think believe that Estrogel, i.e., topicals, adds a least some improvement. I have cut way back on Estrogel because I was running out of balding areas to apply it to so now I mostly use on the hairline and I have more confidence in using other methods like the patch. Finasteride, most agree, barring sides that are intolerable is not optional if you want to do this effectively especially while your estrogen levels build up.

What we don't appear to know and what I go back and forth on, is whether improvement via HRT is gradual and incremental and based upon constant titration upwards to cis-female adult target levels or whether topical estrogen improves hair and hair counts immediately. It does something immediately and it was enough to keep me in the game and trying but I am more so convinced now that for people who want life-changing regrowth, HRT works like a light switch for regrowth and primarily and only, after adult female targets of E and T are met and maintained over time. This process is about as slow as watching hair grow itself and it can take years to see improvement but I also have seen claims of incredible improvement in six to nine months among younger folks with less hair loss.

I do think that when HRT works, it works for everyone and age is only faintly a negative but accumulated fibrosis might be a major hindrance. finasteride works against this so it is a major part of what we aim to accomplish.

Welcome,
Janey

 

[HelpMyHair!!]

It is confusing because we know that this can work. We just don't know what parameters matter and which don't, or even which might help some but not be worth the hassle. Using Estrogel is more expensive and for some, a hassle to apply and it is very difficult to prove that it works better than just using pills but most of us, I think believe that Estrogel, i.e., topicals, adds a least some improvement. I have cut way back on Estrogel because I was running out of balding areas to apply it to so now I mostly use on the hairline and I have more confidence in using other methods like the patch. Finasteride, most agree, barring sides that are intolerable is not optional if you want to do this effectively especially while your estrogen levels build up.

What we don't appear to know and what I go back and forth on, is whether improvement via HRT is gradual and incremental and based upon constant titration upwards to cis-female adult target levels or whether topical estrogen improves hair and hair counts immediately. It does something immediately and it was enough to keep me in the game and trying but I am more so convinced now that for people who want life-changing regrowth, HRT works like a light switch for regrowth and primarily and only, after adult female targets of E and T are met and maintained over time. This process is about as slow as watching hair grow itself and it can take years to see improvement but I also have seen claims of incredible improvement in six to nine months among younger folks with less hair loss.

I do think that when HRT works, it works for everyone and age is only faintly a negative but accumulated fibrosis might be a major hindrance. finasteride works against this so it is a major part of what we aim to accomplish.

Welcome,
Janey

Thank you Janey, I appreciate the reply and your contributions to this forum!

Basically, I'm a Norwood 2.5 at 37. Some recession, and minor crown thinning, but no slick bald areas (except temples before finasteride)

Finasteride has thickened existing hair, regrown some on my crown, and I've gotten a ton of small vellus hair on the hairline/temples. I feel like its gotten me, let's say 30% of where I would like to be.

What I am curious about, and would like to experiment with.....can I continue finasteride, and hit it hard with Estrogen only for a while without going "all in" with Bica, Cypro, or spironolactone.

All speculation, but I feel like for me personally, finasteride has "balanced me out" somewhat, but not quite enough to get those tiny vellus hairs to regrow significantly. My thought is, if I could significantly raise my estrogen levels, to the point where it lowers T slightly, it may put me right in the wheelhouse of where I need to be (again, just me personally).

What estrogel did you/do you use? Are you able to point me in the right direction? Naturally, I'm totally aware of the risks.

Thanks again for any guidance!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Thank you Janey, I appreciate the reply and your contributions to this forum!

Basically, I'm a Norwood 2.5 at 37. Some recession, and minor crown thinning, but no slick bald areas (except temples before finasteride)

Finasteride has thickened existing hair, regrown some on my crown, and I've gotten a ton of small vellus hair on the hairline/temples. I feel like its gotten me, let's say 30% of where I would like to be.

What I am curious about, and would like to experiment with.....can I continue finasteride, and hit it hard with Estrogen only for a while without going "all in" with Bica, Cypro, or spironolactone.

All speculation, but I feel like for me personally, finasteride has "balanced me out" somewhat, but not quite enough to get those tiny vellus hairs to regrow significantly. My thought is, if I could significantly raise my estrogen levels, to the point where it lowers T slightly, it may put me right in the wheelhouse of where I need to be (again, just me personally).

What estrogel did you/do you use? Are you able to point me in the right direction? Naturally, I'm totally aware of the risks.

Thanks again for any guidance!

Thank you Janey, I appreciate the reply and your contributions to this forum!

Basically, I'm a Norwood 2.5 at 37. Some recession, and minor crown thinning, but no slick bald areas (except temples before finasteride)

Finasteride has thickened existing hair, regrown some on my crown, and I've gotten a ton of small vellus hair on the hairline/temples. I feel like its gotten me, let's say 30% of where I would like to be.

What I am curious about, and would like to experiment with.....can I continue finasteride, and hit it hard with Estrogen only for a while without going "all in" with Bica, Cypro, or spironolactone.

All speculation, but I feel like for me personally, finasteride has "balanced me out" somewhat, but not quite enough to get those tiny vellus hairs to regrow significantly. My thought is, if I could significantly raise my estrogen levels, to the point where it lowers T slightly, it may put me right in the wheelhouse of where I need to be (again, just me personally).

What estrogel did you/do you use? Are you able to point me in the right direction? Naturally, I'm totally aware of the risks.

Thanks again for any guidance!

If I understand correctly, I started out doing what you mention but I was on minoxidil too. The problem was that I started visibly feminizing everywhere except above the neck basically. My hair growth improved some but the copious regrowth started after I raised my estrogen levels far above those of adult cis-females and added oral minoxidil for some extra kick. I used brand name Oestrogel and bought it off-shore. I think the reason why HRT isn't a thing for males for hair regrowth is because you have to use more than most males could conceive of using and having it go systemic. The topical aspect probably helps so though so that's why it is difficult to give entirely straightforward answers. I will check back tomorrow. It is a fascinating topic. Thanks for the kind words.

Janey

 

[Almas]

If he adds bicalutamide, he wouldn’t have to worry about the adrenal glands producing testosterone. Even then, the amount of hormones aren’t enough to lead to hair loss, especially since the amount of DHT will be minimised drastically.

Hmm...

 

[Almas]

Why would he get Addison's disease? I mean, bicalutamide won't be stopping the adrenal glands from producing hormones, it will be blocking the androgen receptors in the hair follicles so androgens can't have an effect.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Hmm...

We talk about PCOS-male syndrom in mans. Surely, in "normal" males bica won't be a problem. But we do not know how Bicalutamide will work on men having problems with adrenal androgens

 

[Almas]

We talk about PCOS-male syndrom in mans. Surely, in "normal" males bica won't be a problem. But we do not know how Bicalutamide will work on men having problems with adrenal androgens

My arms drop when I realize that even my mother is going bald

 

[Pls_NW-1]

My arms drop when I realize that even my mother is going bald

Yeah and my dick flies off lol :'( this sh*t is cursed.

 

[Almas]

what is the best type of estradiol to try? @Ikarus @keepcoolmybabies @Deacr4

I am 19 I have been on bicalutamide 100mg and dutasteride 0.5mg and im still losing ground

should I try progynova or estradiol valerate or estrace or estradiol hemihydrate?

I ordered estrace, will that work more or less effectively than other forms of estradiol?

SHEEEEEEEEEIIIT

 

[Almas]

My optimism has dropped. I have read all the posts about Bicalutamide on this forum. And I concluded that it helps 50% of people at best. But it is still better than 0% finasteride in young people

 

[mrdavies]

My optimism has dropped. I have read all the posts about Bicalutamide on this forum. And I concluded that it helps 50% of people at best. But it is still better than 0% finasteride in young people

That's not true.

 

[Almas]

That's not true.

Show me one person under the age of 20 who stopped baldness with finasteride and improved density at least a little

 

[mrdavies]

Show me one person under the age of 20 who stopped baldness with finasteride and improved density at least a little

There's tonnes of evidence that finasteride helps hair loss at people of that age. I'm unsure if you're just trolling or not.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

There's tonnes of evidence that finasteride helps hair loss at people of that age. I'm unsure if you're just trolling or not.

It's less likely Finasteride will help severe hairloss as much as it would help mild hairloss. Most late teens won't be able to hold as much as a middle-aged man with onset of male pattern baldness would be.

 

[Almas]

There's tonnes of evidence that finasteride helps hair loss at people of that age

Not. Finasteride helps those whose baldness began at 30+, for 15-20 years old it is useless, young people have too sensitive receptors. You will not find Finasteride success stories in young people

 

[Almas]

Once I accidentally thought about the fact that all the success stories of Finasteride belong to people over 25 years old, and 18 year olds continue to go bald even on Dutasteride, as if they were doing nothing.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Once I accidentally thought about the fact that all the success stories of Finasteride belong to people over 25 years old, and 18 year olds continue to go bald even on Dutasteride, as if they were doing nothing.

The thing is that people would believe you if you had either references or even an explanation as to what differs in an 18 year old versus a 40 year old. It seemed to be on tressless that a lot of young guys were going on finasteride right after turning 18.

 

[mrdavies]

It's less likely Finasteride will help severe hairloss as much as it would help mild hairloss. Most late teens won't be able to hold as much as a middle-aged man with onset of male pattern baldness would be.

of course but thats not what almas stated.

 

[Almas]

These are just human observations. I am not the first to notice this pattern: the earlier baldness begins, the harder it is to treat it. I was convinced of this from my own experience. Young people have a somewhat higher receptor sensitivity.