Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
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Yeah but I am trying to get thoughts related to DHT in the face compromising scalp hair right now, lol. You and I discuss bica all day long it seems
Posted by
u/JaneyElizabeth
7 hours ago
DHt, Rogaine Beards and Hair Restoration--Is there a connection
So this is from HairLossTalk.com. We are half MtF's and half XY's just in it for the hair and we do not sweat pronouns over there and we aren't PC. I am genuinely trying to crack a couple of thorny issues and I am trying to puzzle out both the breast growth conundrum related to levels as well as the hair growth conundrum related to such variance in hair outcomes by people purportedly taking the same meds or at the same or close to the same levels. I am not a chemist or any sort of scientist but since we have no full studies. I would like it either on here but preferably here if you guys could provide feedback. I have most of my hair back already, lol, so no ulterior motives. I find this intellectually interesting how all the different pieces fit together. For some of us, being and learning to be MtF is at least a part-time job. I have gone through many different salon treatments to see how they interact with HRT and kept, well not a diary but i have a mind that doesn't forget things for some reason. It's a burden more than a gift but I digress:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...al-posts-prove-it.130425/page-47#post-1973407
if as many of you fellow MtF's have anecdotal recollections as to whether you think that beard removal was not just key for passing or looking better for some, but think back if any of you began to see better results shortly after beard removal was largely complete. I think back to my four years or so looking XX below the neck and XY above the neck and yes, levels had a lot to do with it but that seems too facile. I have been intuitively certain that once the beard was gone, that my face and body seemed to feel a burden lifted or however we want to phrase it. I know everyone can't afford or find removal in their areas so there is no judgment here but especially among folks who have gone deep into HRT who had fully established beards but continued without beard removal, how were your hair and facial feminization results?
Has anyone restored who is non-binary and maintains an active beard?
Even if it is not a pure yes or no question, thinking about the backdoor pathway and MtF's masculinizing after SRS has propelled me deeper into this issue. I would like any feedback from FtM's about Rogaine beards and if you think that it was connected to hair loss. I am also interested in FtM's who struggled with dermatitis during or after transition. I have a great guy friend who is FtM and he is really worried about FtM hair issues so we spoke about dutasteride and I told him it was mandatory in my opinion except for those who actually want or don't mind going bald and just like MtFs love cellulite, I know you are out there.
I appreciate your input. We are all in this together.
Janey
Tato et al.
Something that suddenly occurred to me last night while answering MtF questions on reddit had to do with the puzzle as to why HRT works for hair but only for some. This is but conjecture but I have excellent anecdotal reasons to think that this could be true.
For you guys with full heads of hair, I would think that estrogen would help some. For the really young, guys it should work but as I was encouraging people to get beard removal yesterday, it came to me.
Restoration might be impossible with an active male beard, shaved or not, because essentially that is many square inches of nothing but DHT-laden skin and follicles. So my first question is: How could somebody possibly facially femininze with a full beard? Is the DHT just going to migrate around like it does with dermatitis. For me, only beard removal ended dermatitis. Only with beard removal after largely done, did I see facial feminization. Now some of this might just be temporally correlated by when I did what but my hair only began to improve after my beard was removed.
This might account for why many MtF's seem to regrow hair effortlessly and why others regrow zilch. People are MtF, regardless of beard removal but in terms of passing, it's just not going to happen for anyone say over 26 without beard removal. @bridgeburn actually got semi-beard removal from extreme HRT but that is really rare and he was younger.
So any older guys struggling, we should all work through this and swap notes because the full beard must simply negate facial feminization above the neck. This would account for why I had a chick body only from the neck down for several years but only saw facial, skin disease relief and hair improvement after my beard was gone!
I think that this could be key. Usually I encourage people to remove their beards so they have a chance of passing but this has been evolving in my mind for a while since Marky mentioned FtM's balding immediately after beginning to grow rogaine beards. Those beard are bringing up DHT for the first time in these XX males. I think Marky's passing remark which really got me thinking could be a key to all of this all of a sudden and it would explain possibly so much with the variant results by the guys trying to follow @bridgeburn. We are learning now that for MtF's any DHT at all could cause re-masculinization even after SRS. I think DHT and it's ability to synthesize itself from beard follicles might be the key to all of this.
Pls, imagine being able to get beard removal and then not needing HRT anymore without all that DHT. Duta might be all you need then or just low-dose. I harp constantly on the connection between beards and hair loss for whites/Semites and I really think that this could be at least, a key component of hair salvation for the young guys and restoration for the rest of us.
Janey
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...al-posts-prove-it.130425/page-47#post-1973407
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My body is essentially hairless apart from pubes as armpits and I struggle to grow any kind of a beard so that theory doesn't really apply to all. I've been balding since my late 20s and while I broadly agree that hairy men generally have more DHT it does not follow that their scalp hair is sensitive to it or its effects as I know hairy well bearded men with full heads of hair.
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Well. Not so fast. This is a restoration theory for people under HRT who hit as high as 300 pg/ml and who start HRT at least largely bald or perhaps like Almas and Pls with both knowing for years that the clock was ticking for them. And as I stated it might be more akin to a chemical imbalance with respect to the beard hair interaction. As I further noted and have others, Marky and others have mentioned the Rogaine beard baldness issue.
Next, DHT mediates dermatitis, dandruff and hair loss unless I am mistaken. It is irrelevant whether T actually is responsible for the growth itself. Not particularly of interest except in that I am convinced DHT gets blamed for a lot of things actually directly or indirectly mediated by T.
Next, we are learning more and more about quantum effects, also called cross-talk and you guys literally have no idea whether there is cross-talk between beard and hair, nor do I but I know one thing. I now have hair where I used to have beard in the side-burn area. So, are you sure that there's no interaction from the beard telling the hair to "stop growing". We have the plucking studies and apparently studies of graft size in transplants being mediated by cellular cross-talk. There's no dispute that cross-talk is a thing.
While it might be a stretch to think that beard removal along is going to restore hair, on that point I am intrigued by say 17 year old boys either finding ways to prevent the follicles from either having beard follicles or removing them when it is still easy. It is far from preposterous to think that beard removal would help hair not to begin balding to begin with. It's not MtF's who have to deal with follicles mysteriously dying from something that may or may not be mediated by DHT but women do have androgenic hair loss. Is that mediated by T or DHT? I don't know the answer to this question. I also am curious whether it is T, DHT or both that are responsible for sexual aggression or sexual compulsion and I don't know the answer to that either but the sexual compulsiveness of T/DHT is probably both but again I am not certain.
DHT manufactures itself in skin and hair and follicle tissue. But DHT appears to actually need active follicles to infect the face with dermatitis in my experience. Once the beard was gone and no other changes in meds, my rampant dermatitis went away. My dermatitis was actually more of a drag than my hair loss and all over both face and scalp and perhaps neck. I have the before pics on page one of My Name is Janey. Nothing else worked for the dermatitis and it would come and go for awhile but at one point I had sores all over my scalp that were painful and had to crust over before they would crust over and fall off. I haven't had that ever since beard removal. There is too much here for someone to waive their hands and say there's no connection. We know that the more beard follicles a race sports, the more likely said race is to experience baldness. Native American men and women of pure blood have the same hairlines and same lack of beard. Many Asians struggle to grow a beard at all.
Next, DHT mediates dermatitis, dandruff and hair loss unless I am mistaken. It is irrelevant whether T actually is responsible for the growth itself. Not particularly of interest except in that I am convinced DHT gets blamed for a lot of things actually directly or indirectly mediated by T.
Next, we are learning more and more about quantum effects, also called cross-talk and you guys literally have no idea whether there is cross-talk between beard and hair, nor do I but I know one thing. I now have hair where I used to have beard in the side-burn area. So, are you sure that there's no interaction from the beard telling the hair to "stop growing". We have the plucking studies and apparently studies of graft size in transplants being mediated by cellular cross-talk. There's no dispute that cross-talk is a thing.
While it might be a stretch to think that beard removal along is going to restore hair, on that point I am intrigued by say 17 year old boys either finding ways to prevent the follicles from either having beard follicles or removing them when it is still easy. It is far from preposterous to think that beard removal would help hair not to begin balding to begin with. It's not MtF's who have to deal with follicles mysteriously dying from something that may or may not be mediated by DHT but women do have androgenic hair loss. Is that mediated by T or DHT? I don't know the answer to this question. I also am curious whether it is T, DHT or both that are responsible for sexual aggression or sexual compulsion and I don't know the answer to that either but the sexual compulsiveness of T/DHT is probably both but again I am not certain.
DHT manufactures itself in skin and hair and follicle tissue. But DHT appears to actually need active follicles to infect the face with dermatitis in my experience. Once the beard was gone and no other changes in meds, my rampant dermatitis went away. My dermatitis was actually more of a drag than my hair loss and all over both face and scalp and perhaps neck. I have the before pics on page one of My Name is Janey. Nothing else worked for the dermatitis and it would come and go for awhile but at one point I had sores all over my scalp that were painful and had to crust over before they would crust over and fall off. I haven't had that ever since beard removal. There is too much here for someone to waive their hands and say there's no connection. We know that the more beard follicles a race sports, the more likely said race is to experience baldness. Native American men and women of pure blood have the same hairlines and same lack of beard. Many Asians struggle to grow a beard at all.
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Still sort of a newbie. Now I see that there is something called profile posts which I don't understand because how is it different from PM's? Anyone whose questions I have missed on there, I will try to look back. Probably better to PM me or just post on Hair is Not Life.
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Have I told you, Almas, lately just how much I love reading about Bica!
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He won't prescribe reductase inhibitors for FtM's either.
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You never post anymore my friend. I hope things are well. I will try to PM you soon.
And I'm reading about estradiol injections
There is a thought to raise E to 100 pg ml, such levels will not lower my T, but maybe stop baldness
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I wrote about beard removal. I think that might help. It kills facial dermatitis.
To be honest, this is some kind of nonsense. Does removing a beard lower DHT? Or maybe breast removal lowers E?)
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Almas, I have a very young guy and he needs our/your expertise.
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Read what I wrote. There is a dermatitis/hair loss connection.
They periodically write me in private messages, and I help everyone. I will definitely help, but the answer "HRT" is unlikely to suit the cis guy ...
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You are in the age group. I told him that we needed to see a dermatologist tomorrow and maybe finasteride and either bica or spironolactone. I would hold off on the estrogen because everyone think we are out to convert folks. I try to help everyone on their own level. I actually have minor surgery tomorrow so I will try to check in around that.
What about taking Bicalutamide and small doses of E? For example, 75-100mg of Bicalutamide and 2 clicks of Estrogel. It won't lower T, but it will raise E. If 75mg doesn't work for me, I might try this option because I don't have time to test many combinations of treatments:
1) 100mg Bicalutamide
2) 100mg + estrogel
3) 150mg
4) 150mg + estrogel
I can save 2 times my time if I use Estrogel right away. Baldness does not tolerate wasting time due to its progression. I want to try all of these options before the end of this year, and next year I want to have breast surgery and think about whether I should use HRT. What worries me most about HRT is the redistribution of fat. I am not a masculine physique per se. I have large hips, narrow shoulders and large buttocks, although I am low in weight. I also have big cheeks. Estradiol can exacerbate all of these disadvantages. If I use full-fledged HRT, I also can't avoid the feminization of my face, which will make me look strange. Look at the pictures of Noah and Bridgeburn. Such a feminization of the face on an ongoing basis will not suit a cis gender man. That is why I was thinking about two clicks of Estrogel that will raise E but not lower T. However, if you do not lower T, androgen signaling will not stop, so you will continue to go bald in all cases except HRT if you did not respond to Bicalutamide
Thus, baldness is incurable without huge sacrifices. I don't even know which is worse: going bald, or living with gender dysphoria. I often think about how well I chose the avatar.
1) 100mg Bicalutamide
2) 100mg + estrogel
3) 150mg
4) 150mg + estrogel
I can save 2 times my time if I use Estrogel right away. Baldness does not tolerate wasting time due to its progression. I want to try all of these options before the end of this year, and next year I want to have breast surgery and think about whether I should use HRT. What worries me most about HRT is the redistribution of fat. I am not a masculine physique per se. I have large hips, narrow shoulders and large buttocks, although I am low in weight. I also have big cheeks. Estradiol can exacerbate all of these disadvantages. If I use full-fledged HRT, I also can't avoid the feminization of my face, which will make me look strange. Look at the pictures of Noah and Bridgeburn. Such a feminization of the face on an ongoing basis will not suit a cis gender man. That is why I was thinking about two clicks of Estrogel that will raise E but not lower T. However, if you do not lower T, androgen signaling will not stop, so you will continue to go bald in all cases except HRT if you did not respond to Bicalutamide
Thus, baldness is incurable without huge sacrifices. I don't even know which is worse: going bald, or living with gender dysphoria. I often think about how well I chose the avatar.
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Well, nobody deserves to go to hell or be bald, but maybe deported. I always delete any angry posts soon after. He is just 21 years old but he appeared to be a CB and RU person. I mean those are not solutions for anyone with rampant hair loss.