Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

I would never touch an aromatase imhibitor I did once and it absolutely Destroyed my hair faster than anything ever.

So u have all that muscle all while on dutasteride without out roids ? That gives me hope. Especially if my dht only drops by 15 percent.

Hope of what? Do you mean you are now going on Dutasteride because that is probably a good idea as opposed to a treatment composed of aromatic and not-so-aromatic oils.....

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

Yeah see I’ve heard this happening to a lot of people, I used Arimidex for roughly a year with no issues for hair. I’m not going to lie man my body’s changed alot since dropping steroids and crushing my test and dht.

it really all depends on what’s more important your hair or muscles for me it’s my hair lol.

what you using atm?

Not in anything besides topical Keto and piroctamine olamine

are you on oral or topical duta?

that photo u posted doesn’t seem to show it crushed ur test at all

 

[Rysteve93]

Not in anything besides topical Keto and piroctamine olamine

are you on oral or topical duta?

that photo u posted doesn’t seem to show it crushed ur test at all

I’m on oral dutasteride mate it’s been roughly 3 years maybe slightly longer. Used finasteride before for a year then i lost more ground. Here my chest before i decided hair was more, injecting over 1gram of test a week and dht derivatives lol.

id say dust is a great idea for anyone catching hairloss early!

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I’m on oral dutasteride mate it’s been roughly 3 years maybe slightly longer. Used finasteride before for a year then i lost more ground. Here my chest before i decided hair was more, injecting over 1gram of test a week and dht derivatives lol.

id say dust is a great idea for anyone catching hairloss early!

Hollyshit bro. I would be happy with half ur gains. I am gonna go topical. my hairloss isn’t too aggressive. If It works and only lowers dht by 20 percent I’d probably benefit from the higher anabolic profile.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I’m on oral dutasteride mate it’s been roughly 3 years maybe slightly longer. Used finasteride before for a year then i lost more ground. Here my chest before i decided hair was more, injecting over 1gram of test a week and dht derivatives lol.

id say dust is a great idea for anyone catching hairloss early!

Remember the line from Seinfeld about his being a breast or "leg" man and he said "breasts. I have legs."

So here the answer is hair is better than muscles because even chicks have muscles but pretty much they all have hair.

I love puttering and tinkering around with my meds and hormone levels because my meds all pretty much actually work but I do not know how you guys go forward using one or two experimental meds that do little or nothing. Stacking 20 of them still won't produce results comparable to Steve's or Janey's results says Will. Not even close. You end up in that mind-set where you refuse to yank deformed hair and you see peach fuzz as being really helpful to decrease the look and shine of baldness in the crown. And you still end up disheveled every f*****g time the wind blows adds Janey. If I can't have Mick Jagger hair circa 1968-1972 then what's the point? Plus I can still look like Roger Waters' hair now which is pretty amazing for 77 or however old he is.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

Remember the line from Seinfeld about his being a breast or "leg" man and he said "breasts. I have legs."

So here the answer is hair is better than muscles because even chicks have muscles but pretty much they all have hair.

I love puttering and tinkering around with my meds and hormone levels because my meds all pretty much actually work but I do not know how you guys go forward using one or two experimental meds that do little or nothing. Stacking 20 of them still won't produce results comparable to Steve's or Janey's results says Will. Not even close. You end up in that mind-set where you refuse to yank deformed hair and you see peach fuzz as being really helpful to decrease the look and shine of baldness in the crown. And you still end up disheveled every f*****g time the wind blows adds Janey. If I can't have Mick Jagger hair circa 1968-1972 then what's the point? Plus I can still look like Roger Waters' hair now which is pretty amazing for 77 or however old he is.

Only way these drugs are gonna work is increasing steroid production. What happens often is the drugs lead to lower dht and lower test and lower steroid production overall. Lower steroid production means lower estrogen. Not good. U need substrate.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Only way these drugs are gonna work is increasing steroid production. What happens often is the drugs lead to lower dht and lower test and lower steroid production overall. Lower steroid production means lower estrogen. Not good. U need substrate.

I don't know what that means but my E2 levels tend to be off the charts and the other secret is that for many, estradiol is simply a far better life experience than the adult male one. Instead of feeling driven, I am mellow and high levels of estradiol just feel good. Hair is not just hair but I want cis-female/teen boy hair and it is within reach plus my hair is the longest ever, even back in the swinging 70's where long hair was in until Reagan got elected and everybody started going for the Beatles' original look or even shorter.

I know of exactly ZERO male meds that promote anagen to the extent that the hair looks better long than short so even if there were some sort of "cure", it might not be even noticeable unless anagen is turned up noticeably say like 3.33 times compared to adult cis-males. Nothing on the male side for those under 22 roughly will ever promote looking good with long hair unless their fringe hair is totally unaffected and non-diffuse in character to begin with like say Sting. It all seems like a lot of work to me with very little payback on the male side except no, nobody wants to have scalp showing regardless.

At a certain point a person says to herself, I have hair and why do I care even if anyone else does, in the abstract. Well, going bald is simply horrible for everyone but I mostly stay on the oral min and HRT threads because I like going with winners now, not winners in 2042 or whenever the pigs start rolling down the line....

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I don't know what that means but my E2 levels tend to be off the charts and the other secret is that for many, estradiol is simply a far better life experience than the adult male one. Instead of feeling driven, I am mellow and high levels of estradiol just feel good. Hair is not just hair but I want cis-female/teen boy hair and it is within reach plus my hair is the longest ever, even back in the swinging 70's where long hair was in until Reagan got elected and everybody started going for the Beatles' original look or even shorter.

I know of exactly ZERO male meds that promote anagen to the extent that the hair looks better long than short so even if there were some sort of "cure", it might not be even noticeable unless anagen is turned up noticeably say like 3.33 times compared to adult cis-males. Nothing on the male side for those under 22 roughly will ever promote looking good with long hair unless their fringe hair is totally unaffected and non-diffuse in character to begin with like say Sting. It all seems like a lot of work to me with very little payback on the male side except no, nobody wants to have scalp showing regardless.

At a certain point a person says to herself, I have hair and why do I care even if anyone else does, in the abstract. Well, going bald is simply horrible for everyone but I mostly stay on the oral min and HRT threads because I like going with winners now, not winners in 2042 or whenever the pigs start rolling down the line....

The long term affects of seriously f*****g with hormones and blood pressure like that could lead to an earl death tho

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I am reading some very exciting things on treeless. Topical duta may be the holy grail solution for most of us with the most minimal sides. There a really good chance it will offer us maintenance possibly forever. Technically as long as u use it. It should continue to be effective almost permanently.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

That's really not correct. MtF's do this in the millions and longevity goes up, not down. It's testosterone that's linked to early death from heart disease and prostate cancer. Our breast cancer risk goes up slightly but not as much as a cis-female. There are risks to everything and being bald is definitely something that can lead to depression, attempts at suicide and death. I was done as a balding male and had nothing to look forward to and HRT has rocked my world essentially like some sort of Ponce de Leon med to the point that it astonishes me how much younger I look and particularly without my wig for some reason, I look extra young. I have all of my representative pics posted since 2015 and I have tons of pics of all aspects and physical changes from HRT. HRT is worth it alone, just for the amazing health benefits but shhh because so our MtF ranks are going to be overloaded with people who are only marginally dysphoric at all and the just in it for the hair, XY group that continues to grow.

In terms of HRT being a sin, well, that's ridiculous to call taking endocrine medications a sin but people used to try to convert me to Christianity when I still wasn't close to passing. I mean this is just about the coolest thing anyone could do. It's science fiction; it's Freaky Friday and when it all comes together it can be mind-blowing in terms of developing a new personality. I hope to do some writing on this but basically this is the highlight of my life by far, not counting births and weddings and those sorts of things.

YMMV

Janey

Fair. But what about the oral minoxidil u are using. Aren’t u worried this will cause some damage. In my opinion minoxidil is by the most dangerous of them all. I am deathly scared of using it.

 

[Derelict]

I would never touch an aromatase imhibitor I did once and it absolutely Destroyed my hair faster than anything ever.

So u have all that muscle all while on dutasteride without out roids ? That gives me hope. Especially if my dht only drops by 15 percent.

When did you use an AI, have you recovered from it?

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

Any of you notice on finasteride how much ur alcohol tolerance goes up? I rememeber the year on fina I could drink so much ans barely get drunk def related to the allopregnolone no doubt

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

See! If you miss a day on Hair Loss Talk you miss out on recommendations not to use finasteride if one wants to get wasted easily anymore. Maybe that's why I lost my taste for alcohol after HRT says she. You made my day with this post

Haha. Nice welcome.
Any of u have any idea why duta would lose effectiveness over timee??

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

That's really not correct. MtF's do this in the millions and longevity goes up, not down.

To be fair tho, most mtfs have their regimen and e levels monitored as to not exceed a certain threshold. Longterm supraphysioloical levels can increase a number of risks, including overall body inflammation response and likewise the potential for anything autoimmune mediated. Not to mention, having off the charts e2 levels likely has your shbg similarly off the charts. And if you already have low T, then it's just mopping up e2, giving you potentially less active e2 than having a more nominal level. Granted I say all this not knowing what your trough levels actually are, just basing it on the "off the chart" statement. I used to think the more E the better, but I think there's a more beneficial middle ground than just higher levels

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

It doesn't really make sense in terms of how we think dutasteride works. It just seemed to happen around age 50 and at that point, it's like free-fall without major intervention. Maybe receptors become exhausted or maybe DHT is there all of the time synthesizing itself and just waiting to pounce and maybe toleration just kicks it pretty quickly even though it might be three to five years before we notice that dutasteride is no longer working and then it's too late. It felt like Will just dropped off a cliff looks-wise in general around that age and I have seen other guys look fantastic until say 40 and then that implodes. I especially notice it on XX's who have been alcoholics or drug abusers and they can easily look 30 years older than they are.

I winder when it does stop losing effectiveness what that actually means in terms of the hair physiology. Perhaps the hair miniturization stops still but what happens the hairs go completely dormant.

 

[Solxama]

Hello everybody!

This is my first post on Hairlosstalk, sorry for it's length but I need to put in the more important information to paint the big picture. I found out about this forum from Reddit and this thread caught my attention, I spent the last week reading most of it. I am a 24 year old male with a history of aggressive androgenic alopecia running in my family, my grandfather was bald in his early 30s, my father even earlier, he lost most of his hair in his mid 20s.

Back to me, I started balding at the age of 17, my mom noticed my hair getting thinner and it started shedding a lot. At 18 my temples started receding, and at 20 I was already somewhere between NW2-NW3. At the time I didn't give much thought to it as I was raised in a small town in a pretty conservative country (Eastern Europe) with pretty rigid gender norms, and I thought nothing could be done about it. I was also in a pretty dark place at the time, I had an addiction to horrible fetish p**rn and masturbation, hateful social views, low self esteem (bordering on self hatred) and I was trying to fit in to the ideal masculine male box. All this was caused by my family constantly putting me down and the rigid gender roles and bullying throughout my school years for not fitting into them. (I never liked competitive sports, fighting with other boys, casual sex, partying etc. I also have a pretty feminine body for a male and I am highly sensitive, I cry a lot, get emotional over small things like pretty flowers, cute animals etc.)

All this led me to believe I am worse then others, weak, worthless so I stared escaping into p**rn and masturbation, video games, alcohol. After I finished high school I tried to force myself to fit more into the masculine ideal, I stared lifting, drinking with strangers, hating on gays, trans people, other nationalities, basically I became a typical young male of my country. But that was all fake, I was depressed, I had little real friends, I never had a romantic relationship since even in my darkest days I was repulsed by casual sex, and I could not find anybody who I had true feelings for.

When I was 22 I got into spirituality after a few weird events in my life that set me on a path of introspection that lasted for the next two years. I stopped drinking, cut down the p**rn use and masturbation to zero, admitted to myself that I am not straight, (It's pretty complicated but if I had to label myself I would call myself a Panromantic Asexual/Demisexual.) got rid of my hateful views, embraced myself fully as who I am, not who I was pretending to be. I also changed my lifestyle to a more healthy one. My self esteem went up and everything is getting better. Everything but two things, my balding, and my body ageing, becoming more masculine. Thankfully after my lifestyle changes and natural supplementation my balding has slowed down a lot during the last two years, but it's still bad, currently sitting between NW3-NW4, and it's starting to bother me a lot, in fact it's ruining my mood all the time.

This is why I decided to write my first post here. Since I changed my lifestyle, I lost a lot of weight, my body is still pretty feminine, and I want to keep it that way as long as I can. After a lot of introspection I came to the conclusion that while I'm probably not fully trans (I have no problem with having a male body, penis, being referred to as a male etc.) I do not like some masculine body features like body and facial hair, the testosterone fueled sex drive and aggression, and most of all balding. Since my spiritual awakening, I know for a fact that there is more then this life on Earth, and man made concepts like gender roles don't really matter to me any more, so I'm willing to do anything to get my hair to grow back as fast as possible. I have seen a private dermatologist and they basically tried to scam me into expensive PRP sessions, beside that they proposed Finasteride and Minoxidil, and they told me that even with that I will still go bald during the next 10 years and that nothing can stop it. After reading through this thread I now know that there is hope with AAs and HRT. The only things stopping me at this point are living with my mum in my conservative country (Will not be a problem soon, I am moving to the UK in the next 2-3 weeks.) and the threat of gyno, I'm not 100% sure I want to fully accept it.

This is why I got a few questions, since people in this thread have a lot of experience with these extreme regimens.

1. If I wanted to avoid gyno as much as possible, could some AA, Fina/Duta and something like Raloxifene work for hair regrowth while avoiding gyno? I also want to avoid Minoxidil as it makes hair dependent on it plus oral could give me more body hair which I don't really like.

2. If I do decide to go on HRT what is the best combination of AAs and Estrogen for a starting regimen?

3. What is the best place to order the meds from, something not too expensive as I am not exactly rich? I doubt any doctor would prescribe me anything more then Fina, and I don't want to pretend to be trans, as although I have become very tolerant, I don't like some things about the trans movement (Mainly that it's being pushed by corporations and politicians), plus I want to avoid the official medical system and much as possible as I have pretty anarchistic views and don't want to rely on the system and doctors who either don't care (They ruined my mom's health) or try to scam people.

Thank you for reading my long and boring story, if anybody is interested I can post a few pictures of my hair, maybe its not as bad as I think, but my family history has me very worried.

PS. Before anybody says this, I am aware of the side effects of AAs and HRT and I don't really care. The only thing that concerns me is gyno, I don't care about my dick not working or losing my "masculinity" whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

If you use estradiol breast growth is unavoidable.

Question for yall do you think its possible to apply dht or some how upregulate 5ar in the scrotum or penis area with a topical without suppression?

my biggest concern using duta topical isnt serum dht going down. Its penis dht going down. So i figure if i could just apply something down there to counter i would be good to go

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

If you use estradiol breast growth is unavoidable.

Question for yall do you think its possible to apply dht or some how upregulate 5ar in the scrotum or penis area with a topical without suppression?

my biggest concern using duta topical isnt serum dht going down. Its penis dht going down. So i figure if i could just apply something down there to counter i would be good to go

I think some of the Powers people do that but I think that I just read that testosterone goes systemic very easily which would make sense since estrogen does. So this might work for non-binary people who want to still "top" but usually those are folks in mixed hormonal environments who don't try to hit female targets but again, for hair regrowth, that seems to be counter-productive. It's Goddess's way of promoting people putting down arms, so to speak. Butterflies are free; hair? not so much.

 

[Solxama]

Hi, Dr. Nick! Simpson's joke. Welcome. Let me read all of this since you write in Janey-style meaning lots of words!

Thank you for your reply Janey

I didn't get the joke at first but I looked it up online. The only Simpson's joke I know is Sneed's Feed and Seed because of a 4chan thing called Sneedposting, it's pretty funny but also a bit annoying when some people do it too much.

1. I doubt that breast growth is avoidable. Most MtF's are small says Janey but there are no guarantees. Pretty much the founder of the thread and I in emulation both experienced quite noticeable breast growth. We/I discuss this a lot because I have been trying to find a way to use estradiol to regrow hair without going systemic and feminizing and it won't work because you have to pass through the breast growth part, which starts all but immediately before you get to the E2 levels that likely regrow hair.

You could try raloxi or tamoxi but word's that they are difficult to work with and outcomes vary so it probably makes sense to just chance the breast growth and if you get it like me, then learn to like it because 100 different MtF's will be insanely jealous of your "results".

Breasts grow on you over time, so to speak, laughs Janey at her own pun.

2. Any bio-identical estradiol, especially parenteral estradiol. You are wrong entirely about minoxidil but that's a common misperception among the young for some reason. To deny yourself the use of oral minoxidil to avoid some chest hair is never going to work. That's what laser removal is for. Hair regrowth is literally so precious that $1,000 for full laser below the neck minus the pubic area is a trifling thing. You have to want this as much as you want to breathe or don't bother. You will just end up frustrated and balder than you were.

3. HRT.cafe but you will have to go through it and see who offers what. I use only Amazon four health.

With respect to your own trans issues, nobody on here cares--it's all copacetic and some of what you say about not wanting to be trans might be offensive to some. Me, very little offends me.

I have coined a term called "just in it for the hair" and that will quench some of your fears. I go by two names and three pronouns but some people on here are very sensitive about pronouns and I think that we try to use their pronouns or when in doubt, use "they" because for transfolks, that's the term you use when you don't know someone's gender assignation or you aren't sure because maybe like me, some of us sort of transition androgynously and I am no different. If I go to trans outings, I struggle some times to know which direction the person is going but for hair regrowth, MtF has nothing to do with gender. It indicates the direction of the meds that you use so MtF HRT applies just as much to the folks "just in it for the hair" as it does to transgender females. There's some baggage in doing this for any XY but if it's not for you, you probably will know fairly quickly because if you can't deal with the gyno/growth issue then what you are attempting won't work.

Anyway as I am inclined to allusions and metaphors:

Come with me if you want to save you hair....

Best and welcome
Janey

1. Yeah, I know gyno is hard to avoid by just going through this thread. Some people on other forums (4chan) apparently use just AAs and Raloxifene for a more "Femboy" look without going full HRT, but I don't know how effective that is in regrowing hair, so I asked here as it's a pretty big trade off, gyno for hair. It seems to be a rule in this world, everything has both wanted and unwanted effects in most aspects of life and what we have to do is to balance them out. I took some more pictures of my hair today and it's pretty tragic, maybe your right and it's best to just risk the gyno, as letting my hair fall out would be an act of hate towards my body, a body that I love and want to care for. Yeah, I got your pun, it made me smile

2. Well I lived with body hair from my late puberty till I started getting rid of it some time ago, so maybe I can swallow having more of it for my hair while using Minoxidil. It's just that I always hated it as it makes a human look like an ape, but I never did anything about it in the past when I was stuck trying to be a "real masculine man", and that didn't go very well for me. Well laser does seem to be an option, I was already thinking about it for some time. Anyway, I have another question for you, do you think that Minoxidil hair dependency is a myth? Some people earlier in this thread think it exists, plus a few people I spoke to in my country seem to think so too, so I'm interested in your opinion about it, maybe I am overreacting.

3. Thank you for the HRT.cafe link , I looked through the site and the prices are pretty good. Some websites linked there ship from Russia, I used to go there quite a lot before covid as my country has a border with Russia, and some of my ancestry is Russian. It's a nice country, although there are some stereotypes about it, in my experience Russians are very friendly people, who are more tolerant and open minded then people in my own country. I used to buy a lot of things there, so I trust Russian products.

About the trans thing, I have no problem with transgender people. It's their life, and they can do whatever they want. I used to hate them, but that's because I didn't understand what they were going through, plus hating on LGBT people is a thing young males do a lot in my country and I was trying to fit in. I don't hate them anymore, it's something I really regret, they are human beings with souls and hating them just for who they are is wrong. When I deconstructed my fake "real man" identity, I had a time I thought I might be trans who tried to repress it, but after a lot of questioning, I don't think so.

As I said, I don't have much of a overall problem with my male body and organs beside a few things, and I don't want to be a girl. In fact gender is not important to me, of course there is male and female sex, and masculine and feminine energies, but gender is a man made concept that I don't really care about. I am a biological male and I don't want to change that, but I don't feel like any gender. I just want to be myself fully, and trying to fit into gender roles again as a girl would be being fake once again, something I want to avoid. I also have a problem with how corporate "elites" and politicians who they control on both the left and right use LGBT issues as a way to set people against each other, to stir up hate and division instead of promoting unity, love, and diversity.

Of course this does not mean I want to invalidate the identities, feelings and experiences of others, so if I do offend any trans person I am sorry. I will try to use the correct pronouns and I promise to be nice to everybody on hairlosstalk

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

For people trying to avoid breast growth, I present the following chart so that you can see just how little estradiol is likely to cause breast growth. Over 1 mg daily appears to be certainly enough to start breast growth. The second issue is that the only way to stop breast growth once it starts is not to titrate downward. You must desist because you can see how low these E2 levels are, so just saying, anyone in fear of developed mammaries, keep a sharp look out or down is it?

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls by Aly

transfemscience.org