Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

JaneyElizabeth

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ALightInTheDark said:
2+ Norwood I don't recall but 1 Norwood without side effect and total maintenance there is plenty of in private forum.
Also,there is only 2 to 3 people who is using Seti at 1.5/2g a day,and it started 2 months ago (westonci is part of it.)
Most of them use it at 100 to 500mg/day.
Clinical trials are at 1.5/2g a day.
Not everbody can afford that,you may have forget this little detail : seti is a new and money dependent drug.

And not everybody dermaroll 1.5mm every week with PGE2 etc etc. We're not all rich,and people who are,have less time than us,so they can't properly do the protocol.

Also Seti in comparaison of Fevi or Pullmagen is weak :)



And at what price ? Sexual side effects. No thanks,hair loss is already too much of a f*****g malediction to have another one.



You forget also one thing : not everyone is a good responder of fina and minoxidil,if it was the case, the sucess stories thread sould be full of NW1 ;)
Only few people manage to have astonashing results on big 3. Majority of people have just maintenance and for some it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Westonci appeared to have some improvement with seti but nothing too dramatic, he wasn't using a 5ar inhibitor though. Swiss was using dutasteride with the prostaglandin protocol, which according to the theory androgens increase pgd2, so it makes sense that if you don't use a 5ar inhibitor, you would need a high enough dose to "outrun" the pgd2 production from androgens.
There are many who use finasteride and minoxidil and get results for a couple years but eventually lose ground again, I believe this is also what happened to Swiss, his last photo he posted in my opinion looked worse than the previous photo and he hasn't updated his blog in years, he also claimed to be close to his juvenile hairline but after never showed pics from enough distance to show it.
The only evidence for the prostaglandin method I've seen so far is from Swiss and Westconli but that doesn't satisfying prove it would cause long term healthy anagen hair growth.. Minoxidil if used alone also regrows hair, sometimes for months or years but it's well known that if you don't take drugs to alter your hormones, then genetics eventually catch up again.. So, how can we know that the same thing doesn't happen with the PGD2 theory?
Swiss even often recommended not using Keto shampoo because keto reduces Pge2. Lol

Swooping had some interesting viewpoints throughout this thread ---> https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/19018-Setipiprant/page11

I agree Hair is a multi angled approach.and maybe pdg2 inhibitors/ pge2 could be a part of a non-feminizing solution someday. but alone it is not the cure. PGD2 is not the only thing bad for hair an PGE2 is not the only thing good for hair. I doubt its the sole reason for balding. theres other negative growth factors too, Tgfb, dkk-1, oxidative stress, IFN-gamma, etc.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Interesting about having both Telogen Effluvium and male pattern baldness at the same time:

McThin said:
Havnt got my dht levels tested yet. My hair loss was sudden and rapid and only happened on top of my head. Just recently got my testosterone tested and i was well below the average on that. Im getting hormones and dht tested soon ive been all out of whack lately i lost a good percentage of my hair in 3 months. My hair line is still very thick but my pattern is very thin in certain areas on my head its weird and sucks haha
I really hope you just have telogen effluvium. but about 95% of hairloss cases are AndrogeneticAlopecia. and its possible to have both. your T is low so its possible that your Estrogen is low too because E is made from T. It's also possible that its low due to alot of it being converted to DHT. only way to find out though is with more bloodtests, and check for all those things that Georgie mentioned. Keep in mind the time of the day that you get blood drawn too, usually Testosterone is at its highest peak in the morning and gradually goes down throughout the day. It's why men often get morning wood.

youth is more valuable than gender.
an enemy of hair is an enemy of mine.
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JaneyElizabeth

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DHTpolice said:
Great progress! Do you attribute that regrowth to Diane 35 or Minoxidil?
And how much do you take?
Um, maybe diane because I had already switched to oral minoxidil a while ago and I saw a big boost after trying diane. but maybe the
minoxidil just happened to kick in at the same time, I don't know. I take 10mg oral minoxidil.

WTS3 said:
I figured we could form a gang and all sit on the side of the road sippin beer while sayin "yep"
ahahahahaaaha, lets do it.

WTS3 said:
Also,your results are so inspiring in terms of regrowth that it makes me want to try your regimen but fear of sides puts me off. Congratulations by the way
thanks, and be very careful. if you care about masculinity then sides are brutal. I waited a long time before starting any real treatment so i think an extreme regimen is required for me to revive temples which were completely barren for nearly a decade. maybe you could try dutasteride next, give it some time and maybe try spironolactone after that. if the sides are bad stop, have some raloxifene on hand just in case.

youth is more valuable than gender.
an enemy of hair is an enemy of mine.
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JaneyElizabeth

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Bridge apparently used to dermaroll which I had forgotten about. Someone struggling should go through the Bridge parts and copy him day by day or month by month or whatever. I get new things from his part every time I read them.

Choi Han Kyul said:
I should gain some growth if I stop plucking my hairs all the time and hoping that 2mm dermapen did not f*** me over i.e. killed my follicle forever.
probably ypu should be ok. I used to dermaroll.
59209-8df7d2a6fe12081f2a23a4f32b918854.jpg

it didnt seem to help, hair got thinner after this pic.

youth is more valuable than gender.
an enemy of hair is an enemy of mine.
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JaneyElizabeth

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The MtF method has its own Big Three and probably all anyone needs. I think Oral Min can be reduced later. I am down to maybe 3mg daily and most sides are relenting:

Georgie said:
You’re also still on Dutasteride, Cypro, 10mg oral minoxidil?
Not on cypro anymore, just dutasteride, oral minoxidil, and E.

youth is more valuable than gender.
an enemy of hair is an enemy of mine.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I know Noah is purportedly doing better than this person after stopping E2 but here's an entry about that. Half the questions that come up, Bridge dealt with and not much has changed in four years. Strange how he left right when I started but only found his thread later:

Devop911 said:
Hey you seem to bei Well educated and answers in my own thread are really rare.

I am a NW5 stabilized and grow a Bit of new Hair with finasterid 1.25mg/daily.

I want better results.

There ist the theory that finasteride works better on lower Norwoods. So Iam asking my self.

What Happens If i Go the aggressive Route with HRT and finasteride to get regrowth for about 6 months and Then Stop HRT.

IT would bei gorgeous to maintain a nw3 or 4 Then with minoxidil and finasteride only.

I know its a high risk and Nobody recommends it but what do you think ist there a good result possible?
Click to expand...
I think if you stop you'll lose again.

I found someone on reddit who did something similiar. and it didn't work.
screenshot_20180103-021218-jpg.jpg




of course though you can try if you want but don't stop all of sudden that always causes a shed and not in a good way, i think gradually reducing will be better.
you might consider going longer than 6 months, how much you will regrow depends on how long you've been bald and how well you respond. I think that minoxidil speeds up the HRT results, of course people can regrow without it but it might take longer to get to the same level. But you are not trying to recover temple hair so it might be easier. it might be difficult to stop right when your hair starts looking good, lol.
maybe starting minoxidil a little bit before stopping Hrt can help counteract the hairloss caused by stopping? at least for awhile until the hairloss catches up again

also, if you take high enough estrogen then there is the possibility of testicular atrophy and your T production won't return to normal or it will take a long time after stopping. probably youll have a better chance of not losing again if that happens. but i dont think thats what you want to happen lol.

youth is more valuable than gender.
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JaneyElizabeth

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HRT with and without Androgens/Oral Min tendencies:

HillTopLumber said:
Wow man youre an inspiration, what do you think was the main medication that helped increase your density so much, the antiandrogens or the Estradiol?
Im not even taking an anti androgen for more than 2 months and still gaining. I think estrogen is more in important long term but maybe the minoxidil can give more immediate results. and its really the combination which is great. but i have seen some amazing regrowth using antiandrogen approach without minoxidil so i know it is possible, but some probably need the extra boost of minoxidil.
minoxidil will lose effectiveness without changing hormones and your hair eventually matches your hormone profile. it didnt stop my chest hair from falling out although it temporary grew them faster before they thinned. but i think minoxidil will keep continuing to work as long as there are no male hormones to antagonize it.

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JaneyElizabeth

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For S, Almas and Others.

I think this Barbie Doll person is female. Used to be on here all of the time. Nothing worked for this person apparently.

HillTopLumber said:
I kinda lean towards the Estradiol having the most effect. I read that Estradiol is extremely effective in the frontal part of the scalp, menstrual women regain a lot of density there from EE or E.

minoxidil is effective as hell on the crown, but recently it is failing me, I lost most of my crown for no reason it seems, hopefully oral minoxidil could make it effective again and maybe have effects on other areas of the scalp, that is ofcourse if my shipment from inhouse ever arrives and customs don't send me to jail :oops:

I see from your regime you only take 2.5 mg oral minoxidil, why not take 10 if you are a responder?
I have upped it recently to 5mg and I also use the 5% all over my scalp with RU. Plus I have started taking avodart daily, AND I’m on the pill. sh*t just keeps getting worse for me sadly. I’m considering taking supplemental estrgoen but it does scare me. My crown/the top of my head is getting so thin now that my part is unnaturally Wide. Theoretically all that minoxidil, plus estrogen/progesterone, RU and dutas should be a sure thing but I’m yet to see any signs of improvement.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Every entry by Bridge seems full of interesting things. This completes the circle but it might explain why estrogens/EE don't work for everyone and why at times they might have "reverse effects:

Georgie said:
Taking extra Diane would literally be like taking cancer, which my family has a history of. So it’s all well and good to pump up my estrogen but it doesn’t do much good if I end up with cancer, because then not only am I bald, but I’m bald with cancer. Probably far more sh*t. I’m more tempted to get some E2, cut it in half and just add an additional 1mg a day, that’s still 45mg of etrodiol which is insane.
yeah better safe than sorry, please don't get cancer. btw, I found something weird about breast cancer. estrogen can cause it and usually the treatment is to reduce/ block E in the breast.. but apparently taking even more estrogen can treat it too?!!

"Estrogens are responsible for breast development and, in relation to this, are strongly implicated in the development of breast cancer.[32][33]In addition, estrogens stimulate the growth and accelerate the progression of ER-positive breast cancer.[34][35] In accordance, antiestrogenslike the selective estrogen receptor modulator(SERM) tamoxifen, the ER antagonist fulvestrant, and the aromatase inhibitors (AIs) anastrozole and exemestane are all effective in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer.[36][37][38] Antiestrogens are also effective in the prevention of breast cancer.[39][40][41]

Paradoxically, HIGH-DOSE ESTROGEN THERAPY IS EFFECTIVE IN THE TREATMENT OF BREAST CANCER AS WELL and has about the same degree of effectiveness as antiestrogen therapy, although it is far less commonly used due to adverse effects.[42][43] The usefulness of high-dose estrogen therapy in the treatment of ER-positive breast cancer is attributed to a bimodal effect in which high concentrations of estrogens signal breast cancer cells to undergo apoptosis, in contrast to lower concentrations of estrogens which stimulate their growth.[42][43]"

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Get my hair back

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None of this stuff works as far as I can see. Why not microneedle? Stacking things of questionable value is not effective with hair as it much be for body building.
I conducted microneedling in small courses (for several months) but I couldn't tell the difference between before and after.
The last time I endured 4 months and did not see the result. I canceled it more than a month ago and probably won't go back to it, I just don't see the point in forcing myself to no avail. However, I have seen many good results with microneedling, but unfortunately it does not work for me.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I conducted microneedling in small courses (for several months) but I couldn't tell the difference between before and after.
The last time I endured 4 months and did not see the result. I canceled it more than a month ago and probably won't go back to it, I just don't see the point in forcing myself to no avail. However, I have seen many good results with microneedling, but unfortunately it does not work for me.
I did it once in a salon but only on my face. On the scalp, I see it didn't work for you. but I think it gets easier as collagen induction increases and you have more of a fatty barrier or whatever. I just happened to start microneedling right when I upped my HRT regime and then did oral min at 25 mg for say nine months so it's hard to separate things out but even the temples are filling in which seems to only occur for some. Since I only use a roller, I would still try that and maybe try longer needles. It will get easier but Bridge only did it for a while apparently and stopped before his famous "call out to my fellow brothers in arms, er baldness...."

I just went to Roy Rogers and there's a college age kid with long hair and we were discussing the pluses and burdens of having long hair as his was still longer and straighter than mine. Mine is curly/wavy which seems to make one look younger, boyish curls or is it boyish girls she says....
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Oral doses of 25 mg are cool. I have hypertrichosis on 5mg.
It's cool to try something at the margins. Even for those of us/me who don't push dosage limits, when others do, it provides useful information for honing our own protocols. That's why I try to report and separate out when possible, all of the treatments in my protocol.
 

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Your progress looks really inspiring, @kaiman . If I had even half of the hair you have I would be so happy. I hope your hair becomes even better in the future :) .

CPA seems to be becoming a more realistic option for me from day to day. I got less then two weeks until I arrive in the UK, so I got some time to decide. As to the Estrogel shortage, yeah, wtf is going on? Even Otokonoko who make their own are out, this is really weird. Thankfully, I did find some online pharmacies that do have it. I'll PM you with the link to the website I use to check out HRT.
Sorry. Janey cornered the market as they say. What do I hear for one tube they says.
 

keepcoolmybabies

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I want to be female, but I don't mind being a male. I'm not sure if this is actual dysphoria or whatever but I don't see myself ever passing as an attractive woman even with surgeries so I'd rather give up. Your plan seems pretty much perfect, I would do that too but it would pain me to see feminine traits the mirror but not being completely feminine.

1) Literally less than 2 weeks, my temples started growing vellus hairs
2) Not sure, I didn't really pay attention to it.
3) I used 1mg fina before I started duta (didn't change for a specific reason)

I'm not at all influenced by the "ywnbaw" thing, I just know that I can not reach the point that I myself would be happy with my hrt results. I am convinced that I could pass as an under average/average woman but I would not be happy with how I look most likely. I'm just gonna enjoy my life, spend the money I had saved for transplants/ffs on traveling and drugs and die a happy man

Janey doesn't give up, juney does :)
Aw gawd this is so sad for me to read. I can't even imagine having given up to revert to being a guy, but then I've always had severe gender dysphoria, so you might be very different in that regard. I will say, though, that I thought at one point I wouldn't have the chance at passing, so things might turn out better than you think if you stick with it.
 

Experimentality

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Hello. I want to believe that the Cyclo is able to solve the problem with baldness, but to be honest, I have not seen significant evidence of its effectiveness. How long have you been on Cyclo, are there any improvements?
What do you mean by solve problems with baldness? If you are already bald, nothing is going to regrow your hair except for HRT or if you are a hyperresponder to a regular drug. I am aiming for maintenance with my treatments, which I believe is possible indefinitely by using my current protocol. Hence, comments as "this does not work" etcetera are completely useless, because work seems to be unrealistically defined as miraculous regrowth on this board. There are many research papers and anecdotal reports available on Cyclosporine, all of which report hypertrichosis as a primary side effect. Of course, there are many safety concerns with Cyclo, you have to decide for yourself whether you deem the drug safe enough and with a sufficient effect/side effect ratio. My current protocol is "done": I found all compounds and their respective concentrations to provide maintenance and slight thickening over the past six months. I will not add any other compounds in the foreseeable future; the only thing I might do is downtitrate.

If you are aiming to regain Norwoods, you should completely forget about topical regimens. The very best they will do is thicken some of your existing hairs. For me, maintenance is a home run, because I am only a NW2 and will just get a transplant down the line to bring me to NW1. I would never immerse myself in complete destruction of my male hormonal system by means of HRT, even if I were to lose ground at some other point in life. Nevertheless, what I already said remains true: my current regimen should provide lifelong maintenance against androgenic hair loss.

Apologies if this comes across as a bit harsh, but I feel like I need to stress that regrowth should not generally be expected from a treatment (especially topical treatments).
 
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Get my hair back

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I probably put it wrong, not to solve, but to help in the fight against baldness as an addition to the main "treatment". I am looking for effective ways, as an addition to my prpotokol.
 

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:(. I think I could end up passing but not as well as I want. My dysphoria (if I even have it, people say I do but I feel like I don't) isn't that bad. I'm not one of those people who need to become hot 10/10s to consider it a success but I don't think I could even reach 5/10.
I'll probably crack again in a few years and hate myself for losing time on HRT but those are worries for future me
Are you a hot 10/10 man right now?
 
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