Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Yar]

Насколько я помню, вы когда-то пробовали андрогель. Почему ты хочешь попробовать еще раз?

Эксперемент был не правильным,я не менял схему питания

 

[CrushG]

Эксперемент был не правильным,я не менял схему питания

I mean androgel increases Testosteron level, (as far as I know). Why do you want to try it for hair? Thanks!

 

[Yar]

Я имею в виду, что андрогель повышает уровень тестостерона (насколько я знаю). Почему вы хотите попробовать его для волос? Спасибо!

Потому что в облысении не тестостерон виноват а его снижение,снижение тестостерона автоматически это снижение эстрадиола в крови и облысение.Не тостостерон виновен в облысении а его снижение у мужчин в 21 веке с большим колличеством в продаже рафинированных продуктов питания

 

[Get my hair back]

Hi! I think this experience is doomed to fail. If the diagnosis is Androgenetic Alopecia, increasing T will accelerate the rate of alopecia. And if you apply it to your head there will be rapid binding to 5AP = DHT and goodbye hair.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Hi! I think this experience is doomed to fail. If the diagnosis is Androgenetic Alopecia, increasing T will accelerate the rate of alopecia. And if you apply it to your head there will be rapid binding to 5AP = DHT and goodbye hair.

Just waxx it off then. I recommend androgel mixed into a sugar paste.

 

[Yar]

Привет! Я считаю, что этот опыт обречен на провал. Если диагноз - андрогенетическая алопеция, увеличение тестостерона ускоряет скорость алопеции. И если вы нанесете его на голову, будет быстрое связывание с 5AP = DHT и прощание с волосами.

У мужчин по всему миру повальное не увиличение тестостерона а его снижение вследствии употребления в пищу продуктов рафинированныхТестостерон не поднялся а опустился.Продукты с высокими индексами сахара приводят к снижению тст.Помимо этого алкоголь и сигареты увеличивую действие 5а редуктазы

 

[Get my hair back]

I used to take androgenic steroids which started my alopecia. That's why I know for a fact that any way to increase androgens (if you are prone to baldness) will ruin your hair.

 

[Solxama]

I think it's an extremely stupid idea to use androgens after successfully using estrogen to regrow hair. It's like self sabotage, not to insult you @Yar or anything but frankly speaking it's a retarded idea. And you want to do it just to prove some stupid pseudo scientific idea of modern diet lowering testosterone. Just stay on the well researched route of keeping your androgens low if you want to keep your hair.

@Pls_NW-1 is right, it's better to wax your head then proceed with this experiment lol.

 

[Yar]

Раньше я принимала андрогенные стероиды, от которых у меня началось облысение. Вот почему я точно знаю, что любой способ увеличить количество андрогенов (если вы склонны к облысению) испортит ваши волосы.

Избыток андрогенов как и недостаток вредит,важен баланс между гестагенами,андрогенами,эстрогенами.Важен баланс между всеми гормональными группами.

 

[Solxama]

Избыток андрогенов как и недостаток вредит,важен баланс между гестагенами,андрогенами,эстрогенами.Важен баланс между всеми гормональными группами.

What are you talking about lol? You either have Estrogen or Androgen dominance, you can't have both hormones high. A high level of Estrogen will simply lower Androgens.

The point of your experiment is really beyond me, you either run your body on Estrogen or Testosterone, choose one and stick to it. And if you value your hair we all know which is best.

 

[Norwoody]

What are you talking about lol? You either have Estrogen or Androgen dominance, you can't have both hormones high. A high level of Estrogen will simply lower Androgens.

The point of your experiment is really beyond me, you either run your body on Estrogen or Testosterone, choose one and stick to it. And if you value your hair we all know which is best.

This is simply not true. You can definitely be above both reference ranges. This is why bodybuilders on steroids are obviously masculine but can still experience feminizing side effects like gyno and water retention.

 

[Norwoody]

Yes, one has to dominate for long term homeostasis, that much is true. However, even naturally some can be above both reference ranges. For example BlueCyclone is above both, and he has some of the best hair on this forum.

 

[Norwoody]

Now as far as Yar’s experiment, I personally would not do that. Not unless he was using an androgen that is weaker than testosterone, like a SARM or AAS since they are less androgenic than the androgens you produce endogenously, and could prevent T and DHT from binding to AR. There is a thread on this particular topic and some have had hair gains from taking such compounds orally. I can’t imagine using testosterone and expecting hair to grow though.

 

[Solxama]

Yes, one has to dominate for long term homeostasis, that much is true. However, even naturally some can be above both reference ranges. For example BlueCyclone is above both, and he has some of the best hair on this forum.

That's what I meant, long term, maybe my wording was too vague. Of course there are roiders and natural outliers like the person you mentioned, but from what I understand reading Yar's theories, he advocates for artificially keeping both hormones high, and also to prove an absurd theory. This will not be healthy fo hair.

I consider his experiment an example of monumental stupidity, and I'm trying to help him not loose his hair.

 

[Norwoody]

That's what I meant, long term, maybe my wording was too vague. Of course there are roiders and natural outliers like the person you mentioned, but from what I understand reading Yar's theories, he advocates for artificially keeping both hormones high, and also to prove an absurd theory. This will not be healthy fo hair.

I consider his experiment an example of monumental stupidity, and I'm trying to help him not loose his hair.

Well, the theory of keeping both on the high end of the reference range isn't such a terrible idea, though it could prove to be difficult to realize depending on just how high you are trying to go, because as you said T and E will have a negative feedback loop at a high enough dosage. But if you could raise them without inducing negative feedback you could possibly see some gains. Depends on the individual. His implementation of putting test on his scalp though? Obviously I think he needs to re-evaluate how to apply the theory in a better way. If he does that, he's obviously going to skew his androgen/estrogen ratio towards androgens, and yes that is not generally good when you're just adding exogenous test which isn't going to aromatize very much.

 

[Fuchsilein]

Now as far as Yar’s experiment, I personally would not do that. Not unless he was using an androgen that is weaker than testosterone, like a SARM or AAS since they are less androgenic than the androgens you produce endogenously, and could prevent T and DHT from binding to AR. There is a thread on this particular topic and some have had hair gains from taking such compounds orally. I can’t imagine using testosterone and expecting hair to grow though.

I guess nandrolone or oxandrolone would make sense but testosterone is just idiotic...

 

[Solxama]

Well, the theory of keeping both on the high end of the reference range isn't such a terrible idea, though it could prove to be difficult to realize depending on just how high you are trying to go, because as you said T and E will have a negative feedback loop at a high enough dosage. But if you could raise them without inducing negative feedback you could possibly see some gains. Depends on the individual. His implementation of putting test on his scalp though? Obviously I think he needs to re-evaluate how to apply the theory in a better way. If he does that, he's obviously going to skew his androgen/estrogen ratio towards androgens, and yes that is not generally good when you're just adding exogenous test which isn't going to aromatize very much.

You are right, it is a very difficult thing to do. And the aim of his experiment is so pointless, he literally wants to test some pseudo-scientific theory that nutrition is more important then hormones for androgenic alopecia. That's some high level of not understanding science if you ask me. I still eat my normal diet, it's not too unhealthy, but I haven't cut out all the stuff he wants to, and still my gains have been great after just 5 weeks of HRT.

@Yar's experiment is not only idiotic, but absolutely moronic self sabotage.

 

[Experimentality]

Now as far as Yar’s experiment, I personally would not do that. Not unless he was using an androgen that is weaker than testosterone, like a SARM or AAS since they are less androgenic than the androgens you produce endogenously, and could prevent T and DHT from binding to AR. There is a thread on this particular topic and some have had hair gains from taking such compounds orally. I can’t imagine using testosterone and expecting hair to grow though.

I am not aware of any research to date that directly links T to hair loss. Yes, by administration of T there will be conversion to DHT which is, as we all know, strongly associated to hairloss. The problem is that even Dutasteride only inhibits something like 60% of scalp DHT, leaving 40% untouched. Theoretically, a topical regimen could drive this percentage down further, but there are not many success stories out there of topical finasteride/dutasteride (there are, but they are not better than oral finasteride/dutasteride. Also the distinction between purely local action and systemic overspill cannot be made here). Driving scalp DHT down to zero would, according to all the research I did to date, be a cure for androgenic hair loss. Administration of T causes hairloss because there is always overspill to DHT, and even a minute amount of DHT can decimate hair. That does not mean that T itself causes hairloss!

To fortify these claims, I did some research on why T would not generally be associated with hairloss. Of course, we are dealing with a far more complex issue that just "this compound binds the AR, so it will induce hairloss". It all depends on the genes that are subsequently transcribed. This article states:

Downstream of AR there are many AR coregulators such as coactivators, integrators or corepressors. One of the AR coactivators, Hic-5/ARA55 (57), is highly expressed in DP cells from androgen-sensitive sites such as Androgenetic Alopecia and beard, suggesting that Hic-5/ARA55 can enhance androgen sensitivity in DP (58). On the other hand, another in situ labelling study showed that expression of another AR coactivator, ARA70, was weaker in the DP of balding recipient areas than in those from the donor areas (59), thus indicating that selective AR coactivators may be involved in the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia.

Also from this study:

Moreover, the finding that DHT increases inducible nitric oxide (NO) synthase (iNOS) from occipital DP cells suggests that iNOS and NO are downstream effectors of AR in DP cells (67) (Table S2). Other reported findings are that beard DP cells produce more stem cell factor (SCF) than non-balding scalp DP cells (68) and conversely that balding DP cells produce less SCF than non-balding scalp DP cells (69). However, testosterone did not alter the amount of SCF from balding DP cells.

In short, T and DHT have different downstream effects and cannot be treated on equal footing. The fact that they are androgens does not say much, only that they latch onto the same receptor. Fun fact: E2 can also bind the AR. Does it induce heavy epigenetic transcription upon binding? Hell no!

I would love to have someone point me at research that directly shows that T shortens anagen, because I have been looking for it for a long time. It should be research completely lacking the expression and/or use of 5AR enzymes to exclude overspill effects from DHT.

 

[Yar]

Я считаю, что использовать после использования эстрогена для отращивания волос - крайне глупая идея. Это похоже на саботаж, не для того, чтобы оскорбить вас или что-то в этом роде, но, честно говоря, это отсталая идея. И вы хотите это сделать, чтобы доказать какую-то глупую псевдонаучную идею о том, что современная диета снижает уровень тестостерона. Просто обращайтесь на хорошо изученном пути снижения уровня андрогенов, если вы хотите сохранить свои волосы.

[USER = 149144] @ Pls_NW-1 [/ USER] прав, лучше натрите голову воском, а затем продолжайте этот эксперимент, лол.

Тестостерон не является причиной причиной является падение тестостерона и падение гспг вследствии поедания продуктов с высоким сахаром и вообще распостаранения продуктов с высоким сахаром где так или иначе присутствует сахар

 

[Solxama]

Тестостерон не является причиной причиной является падение тестостерона и падение гспг вследствии поедания продуктов с высоким сахаром и вообще распостаранения продуктов с высоким сахаром где так или иначе присутствует сахар

Sorry but I have not heard anything more pseudo scientific in my life. I like you @Yar , but this is just stupid.

Please reconsider this idea, if you want to keep your hair. And if you continue with this despite these warnings then it's going to be like watching a train crash in real time.