Finasteride causing irreversible impotence!?

[Quantum Cat]

good post Lewis - I hear so many conflicting things about Finasteride, I don't know who to believe.

I've been on it for 4+ years. I wouldn't think I'm in the 10% who have bad sides. The two noticable sides I have are watery/less volume semen and sometimes pain when ejaculating. The more vague side effects are loss of libido and fatigue/tiredness, but they are subtle so it's hard to quantify how bad they are, and they can have multiple causes (I'm also on antidepressants which I'm currently tapering off)

on the other hand I do think finasteride has halted my hairloss. it's a quandary



I'm planning to go and get all my hormone levels checked out, but I'm a little unsure of what to ask for other than testosterone and estrogen. (any advice welcome)

 

[Fanjeera]

Get your semen and prostate secretion checked for neutrophils and IL-6, because pain while ejaculating is probably inflammation of the prostate, which is very common and probably not related to finasteride. Unless my theory is right that the lessening of the prostate fluid and its antibacterial component Zn makes your more prone to an infection. That would also mean that finasteride predisposes one for prostate cancer, because that's what chronic prostatitis ultimately develops into. And talking about impotence -- prostatitis gives you that too.

 

[Nicksmith]

I wonder why take finasteride in the first place? How about trying HGH supplements releasers which apart from other anti-age health benefits will regrow the hair back.

 

[Wuffer]

The longer you stay on it, the worse your erections, fatigue, brain fog, depression, lack of seamen etc will get (should you be subject to side effects, and it's probably nearer 10% than 2%)

These statements are in stark contrast to what the best research we have on the drug tells us. Placebo controlled trials involving thousands of men tell us that side effects always (repeatedly and demonstratively) diminish over time, and that they occur at a rate of around 2-3%. How can you possibly argue that this is false without some providing some significant evidence to the contrary?

If you stay on the drug more than 4 years and have these symptoms for more than a year then your chances of complete recovery are zero. You will always have residual problems. What you will notice is a massive 'high' as you come off the drug (with monster erections, loads of energy) followed by a huge crash.

Again, how do you know these things? Has this 'high' or this 'crash' ever been demonstrated in a controlled medical trial or experiment? You are stating this in absolutes "You will always have residual problems" but aren't presenting any concrete evidence that supports your statements.

Endocrocrinologists have investigated the causes and effects of the drug and this is well documented.

Well documented where? I hear this a lot, and I've been hearing it for years. I still have yet to see even a single peer reviewed, published study or examination of the characteristics of this condition.

it actually stops the body being able to receive most of the types of testosterone

Huh? That's a very bold statement. Show some evidence, please.

(if you have blood tests you will see in all likelihood your testosterone levels are at the high end of normal - that's what made you bald in the first place) but the receptors will be blocking it's absorption.

T ends up slightly higher because less is being converted to DHT. Receptors are blocking absorption? I've been on finasteride for 2 years. If my body wasn't absorbing T, I would not be able to get a single erection. My muscles would waste away to almost nothing. In reality, I am able to enjoy an erection when needed, and I've been gaining muscle faster than when I was in my early 20's.

Use it at your peril. If you have any side effects relating to sexual function (even mild ones) in the long term you are running the real risk of for ever being sexually damaged with irreversible erectile dysfunction and impotence.

Again, evidence tells us the risk of sexual dysfunction decreases over time, which means people who take it for longer are safer. Besides, propeciahelp is full of people who claim they took the drug for a very short amount of time and ended up with side effects.

 

[Fanjeera]

PFS can be interpreted as post finasteride stress also. Wether that has anything to do with allopregnanolone depletion, has to be find out.

 

[boobyinspector]

@wuffer don't argue with people about this matter it won't get you anywhere. Just take the drug and enjoy the benefits. I take it, have 0 side effects, great sex drive (a little too high because of Wellbutrin) and awesome erections. Oh and did I mention awesome hair? Yah I love finasteride! Plus my DHT levels are low normal. I also take 25mg of DHEA supplement. Though that's a recent addition and coincidentally my hair has been sprouting a lot in the frontal region. I read somewhere after noticing this that DHEA and finasteride may be a good combo due to the extra IGF-1 letting the finasteride work better.

 

[HairGuru22]

@wuffer don't argue with people about this matter it won't get you anywhere. Just take the drug and enjoy the benefits. I take it, have 0 side effects, great sex drive (a little too high because of Wellbutrin) and awesome erections. Oh and did I mention awesome hair? Yah I love finasteride! Plus my DHT levels are low normal. I also take 25mg of DHEA supplement. Though that's a recent addition and coincidentally my hair has been sprouting a lot in the frontal region. I read somewhere after noticing this that DHEA and finasteride may be a good combo due to the extra IGF-1 letting the finasteride work better.

Nice to hear that you are having results man! I will consider adding DHEA supplement to my regime.

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I wonder why take finasteride in the first place? How about trying HGH supplements releasers which apart from other anti-age health benefits will regrow the hair back.

Who has taking it and got regrowth?

 

[boobyinspector]

Nice to hear that you are having results man! I will consider adding DHEA supplement to my regime.

Yah read it here: http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateDHEA10-07.html just be careful not to take too much as excess could end up as DHT. That's why I only take 25mg while most people take 50-75mg. I prefer slow and steady wins the race.[h=1]The expression of insulin-like growth factor 1 in follicular dermal papillae correlates with therapeutic efficacy of finasteride in androgenetic alopecia.[/h]Tang L, Bernardo O, Bolduc C, Lui H, Madani S, Shapiro J.
[h=3]Source[/h]Division of Dermatology, The University of British Columbia, Vancouver Hospital, Canada.

[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]BACKGROUND:[/h]It is generally believed that dihydrotestosterone is one of the pivotal mediators of hair loss in androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). Finasteride, which blocks the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, has now become an integral part of the current treatment approaches for male Androgenetic Alopecia. Several lines of evidence support the notion that dermal papilla (DP) cells represent the androgen target within the hair follicle. The specific molecular regulators modulated by androgens within hair follicles in the balding scalp are unknown.
[h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]The purpose of this study was to identify and quantify changes in expression of specific molecular hair growth regulators in DP of men with Androgenetic Alopecia treated with finasteride and correlate these findings to clinical efficacy.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]Biopsy specimens were collected from 9 male patients from both the balding area and nonbalding occipital area before and after 4 months of finasteride therapy. DP were microdissected and total RNA was extracted from an equal number of DP from each biopsy specimen. The expression of various cytokines, including insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1, was determined by reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction. The signals were detected by autoradiography. All 9 patients were given finasteride for 1 year and evaluated for efficacy at month 12. Efficacy was graded on a 7-point scale on the basis of comparison with initial baseline photography.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]IGF-1 was up-regulated by finasteride treatment in 4 of 9 patients. Among the patients with increased IGF-1 expression, 3 of them showed moderate clinical improvement after 12 months of treatment and another patient remained unchanged. In contrast, 3 patients with decreased IGF-1 expression in the balding scalp showed clinical worsening after 12 months. The other 2 patients without noticeable change in IGF-1 expression showed either slight improvement or no change in their hair condition.
[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]In a small uncontrolled study of 9 patients with Androgenetic Alopecia, an increased expression of IGF-1 messenger RNA levels in the DP was associated with patient response to finasteride.

 

[Quantum Cat]

I wonder why take finasteride in the first place? How about trying HGH supplements releasers which apart from other anti-age health benefits will regrow the hair back.

will ?

can you guarantee that? will I get my money back if it doesn't make me a Norwood 1?

 

[Thom]

I have heard DHEA may make you lose hair or speed up the hair loss. How long have you guys been taking it?

 

[boobyinspector]

I've been taking it only for 6 months but since I have been taking it I've noticed my frontal area moving forward quite a bit with lots of growth(Though I'm also approaching 18 months finasteride) and just generally feeling better. So I won't know till I'm about a year into it. For males you are more likely to convert the DHEA to estrogen than to DHT. And if you're on finasteride the chances of it converting to DHT are negligible.

 

[Thom]

That's good to hear. I've really been wanting to jump on it but was too afraid. I've read good things about it.

 

[chuckycheese888]

This is my personal experience with finasteride.

My Doctor prescribed finasteride 5mg to me. I cut the pill up into 4 parts and take them in a 5 day span. I would take 4 days in a row, take one day off, then continue cycle.

I began taking in early 2010, and experienced no problems early on. But by the end of the year, I was noticing my libido was lower. I was still able to perform so I didn't mind it too much since I knew that decreased libido was a side effect.

I broke up with gf in 2011. Of course, when I had the urge, I'd jack off like everyone else, but since I didn't have a partner I didn't really notice a difference although in truth my frequency of needing to masturbate went down significantly.

The problem arose when I got a new gf in 2012, and the first time we tried to do it, I was unable to get it up. After trying for a few mins, I got a weak erection but lost it as soon as I put on a condom. It was a big psychological blow to me.

After that, the incident weighed heavily on my mind. I dunno whether it was anxiety or side effect, it was very hard to perform. I was able to sometimes do it, but it didn't feel as good as it used to. After a few months, my sometimes impotence was too much and we broke up.

Then I got another gf in the fall but the problem was the same. I would sometimes lose erection during sex and the sensation just wasn't there. This relationship too broke down because she felt insecure and hurt - and I don't blame her at all.

So now I am freaking out. I didn't wanna go off the drug and lose my hair faster. At the same time I also don't wanna be limp forever. I started doing running and eating healthier. At first it seemed to work as my sex drive returned some, but lately it's been about the same. I tried reducing dosage but it didn't matter.

I think I will stop, and just stick to minoxidil for now.

It's really freaky. No sensation down there and no pleasure when touched. Ejaculation is weak and semen amount is low.

I really hope I can get it back. And I wish anyone with a similar situation success too. I am now to the point where I am scared to be intimate because I just can't be sure if I will be able to do it.

I am now 35 so I dunno how much age may have to do with the lowered libido. My Doctor told me that it's probably not all finasteride.

 

[persistentone]

a reassuring post Admin - thanks. I think those suing Merck are probably trying to make a quick buck. It's selfish because if they succeed and Finasteride is outlawed for hairloss, then a lot of guys who do get benefit from it will suffer. I'm sorry to hear you were one who got bad sides from it. I trust your opinion and experience far more than the lawyers or journalists who probably know little about finasteride

I know one guy who took it for a few years and it atrophied his prostate according to his doctor. When he stopped, the prostate got back to normal

A small prostate gland is considered a good thing and lowers the risk to develop prostate and other prostate conditions associated with enlargement. Where on earth did you get the term "atrophied" in connection to his prostate? There is no test to diagnose that, and I find it hard to believe that any real urologist would issue a diagnosis of prostate atrophy.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22375859
http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm
You may not see a change in size, but in weight.

The first of these two studies seems significant, and I really wish they had stopped the Finasteride and observed the amount of recovery over different time periods. That's the really relevant question for those who are feeling sexual side effects from Finasteride.

In my own case, there is no question that Finasteride has had pronounced effects on my sexuality, both frequency and quality. I absolutely hate that somehow they are getting away with claiming a 2% side effect rate. What I have seen in my own case is more like a 40% to 60% diminishment of frequency and quality.

The thing is that as soon as I stop Finasteride, within just one week my hair starts to fall out in very large quantity, and the scalp constantly itches. As soon as I go back on Finasteride, the itching stops and hair loss in shower comes down from maybe 100 to 200 hairs lost to fewer than 30. So Finasteride really has a very profound effect - for me - on stabilizing hair loss. There is no question that I continue to lose hair over the course of years, but on Finasteride the rate of loss is very low.

That said, I HATE the sexual side effect. I am very encouraged by the recent PDG2 inhibitor studies at University of Pennsylvania, but I'm discouraged by the extremely slow progress on human studies for that.

Regarding reversing the sexual side effects of Finasteride, I really question whether the changes it causes would be permanent. Hormonal changes are sometimes very slow cycle changes that might take months to manifest. So I think you would want to monitor the reversal of the tissue changes caused by Finasteride over the course of a year *after* it is stopped. My guess is it might take two months just to begin to see the reversal take effect. I wonder if the guys reporting impotence just crossed into some hormonal territory where they literally cannot get any erection, and that in turn causes some effects that are difficult to reverse. But you would think even in those cases they could retrain themselves back to their baseline, whatever that was.

 

[persistentone]

Did you read the studies I posted? There's proof that the tissue loses weight and fibroses. Is that reverrsible? Probably not.
I'm not talking about total impotency. Even castrates are able to have sex, but it's just not as easy to achieve an erection, because there's a lot fibrosis in the penis (yes, there are other CNS mediated reasons too, of course, but I don't think these are of importance with finasteride). Just like for finasteride users. And that's frustrating: you're not at 100% health anymore after taking the pill. Do you know what atherosclerosis is? It's very similar, because the penis is much like vascular tissue. People live with atherosclerosis and don't actually feel it, because it's so gradual, but they actually get noticable complications (hypertension, infarctions, ischemias, thrombembols, brain hematoma, gangrenes and much more) and may die.

To be fair, the second study you posted did not say that there was fibrosis in the penis. Fibrosis implies scarring of tissue. Rather, the study said that the smooth muscle tissue became irregular shaped.

It's not at all clear what this implies or whether it is reversible. How absolutely frustrating that the researchers did not terminate the Finasteride and then observe whether there was a slow return to baseline!!

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These statements are in stark contrast to what the best research we have on the drug tells us. Placebo controlled trials involving thousands of men tell us that side effects always (repeatedly and demonstratively) diminish over time, and that they occur at a rate of around 2-3%. How can you possibly argue that this is false without some providing some significant evidence to the contrary?

The problem is the 2% figure is based on the absolute weakest form of experimental evidence: self-reported symptoms from users of the drug. You have a guy who is absolutely in love with the drug because his hair loss rate has dramatically slowed and you are asking him to engage in direct conflict of interest and report back a reason he needs to stop taking the drug. The mind isn't going to give an objective report. If a man's erection volume is 30% lower, he may not even notice. His partner may not notice either, since the vagina readily adapts to different thicknesses.

In stark contrast to these 2% rates, you have the experimental results in rat studies where they autopsy the rat and do detailed tissue analysis of the penis, and they are reporting extremely dramatic changes in both the volumes and the structure of the smooth muscle tissue in the penis. So who are you going to believe: a guy who has conflict of interest and may not even notice the 30% change in erection quality or the actual biopsy of corpus cavernosum tissue in animal studies? I find the reported biopsy results extremely troubling, and I think it is very short-sighted of the researchers to not study whether those tissue changes reverse after Finasteride is terminated. Kind of incomprehensible to me that they didn't think to do that next step.

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@wuffer don't argue with people about this matter it won't get you anywhere. Just take the drug and enjoy the benefits. I take it, have 0 side effects, great sex drive (a little too high because of Wellbutrin) and awesome erections. Oh and did I mention awesome hair? Yah I love finasteride! Plus my DHT levels are low normal. I also take 25mg of DHEA supplement. Though that's a recent addition and coincidentally my hair has been sprouting a lot in the frontal region. I read somewhere after noticing this that DHEA and finasteride may be a good combo due to the extra IGF-1 letting the finasteride work better.

I started on DHEA as well, but I notice that at higher doses around 200 mg/day that I start to get itchy scalp and extra hair loss. So to some undefined extent the DHEA and Finasteride seem to be fighting each other.

I find that Finasteride has a very pronounced effect on how my scalp feels and sheds hair. Without Finasteride I can lose 100 to 200 hairs a day (a LOT) in the shower, and my head always feels very itchy and not really very healthy. With Finasteride, that shed rate will come down under 30 per day in shower, and the itchy feeling subsides about 80% to 90%. It's a very pronounced thing - not at all subtle - and I can very quickly reduce shed rate after starting Finasteride, and it will very quickly come back to high shed rate after I terminate Finasteride.

The feeling I get on scalp in high doses of DHEA is very much the kind of itchiness I get when off Finasteride, so I do think I have a reasonable basis for thinking DHEA is competing against the Finasteride and somehow getting more DHT into scalp tissues.

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How do we prevent replies to different posts from concatenating together into a single reply?

 

[thedarkcolor]

To answer the original poster's questions:

Yes! I'm 23 years old and started finasteride at 1.25 mg and immediately got side effects within four-five hours of taking it. Side effects included testicular pain, breast pains, and reduced ejaculate. I stopped after three days and waited a week. Everything seemed fine. Then I began resuming finasteride at .625 before I went to sleep at night. I did this for 5-6 days at most and the breast pains and testicle aches got so bad I had to stop cold turkey.

A week afterward and I was in hell. I went to the emergency room twice, had several visits to the hospital. I have severe anxiety now, insomnia, no appetite, erectile disfunction, watery semen, brainfog, depression, no emotion or feelings what so ever. I also have slight underarm discomfort/pains every day. These side effects have no lessoned and I really regret every taking the damned drug.

I've found little to no help, and my doctor is puzzled. The small amount of information on these forums are really the only information I have, so I apologize.

 

[swingline747]

I still get intermittent testicle pain. I have to set something up with a urologist again.
Im actually starting to wonder if I had/have an underlying issue the Finasteride just made worse.
My urethra area is just bugging the hell out of me lately. Constantly like this numbing pain feeling and when I work out its sooooo much worse. Sometimes when I walk its like its inflamed and I can just feel my skin in the area crushing and rubbing it.

Just be careful and make sure you get checked before you start using it.

 

[SayifDoit]

I really do find it hard to believe how some people can suffer from such severe and long term side effects that seem to linger and never go away after only being on the drug for little over week before quitting. Where is you see other people who take it for years and years, with practically negligible side effects and some with no side effects. But hey I'm not saying you are lying.

Anyone know the reason behind the whole not being able to have a strong erection?

 

[Valiant]

@thedarkcolor, how long have you been off finasteride? Have you had any bloodwork done?