Fluridil and shutting down AR! (best idea?)

[jimmystanley]

i haven't really looked into the studies as to how exactly eucapidil shuts down the Androgen receptors...but wouldn't this be the ultimate treatment?(in theory) however...if this stuff gets into your blood stream it might get into your brain and cause some serious libido loss :freaked: but there are no reports of that yet. questions...

1. Do you guys think that shutting down AR will have any bad effects on our hair? (like this may also cause some problems to the follicle)

2.can anyone explain how eucapidil shuts down the AR and for how long???

i think this new info has given me new hope...thanks guys :hairy:

 

[jimmystanley]

or does it work more like spironolactone and just blocks the ar??

 

[stax]

Well your questions are pretty advanced but Fluridil works to shut down the Androgen receptor so no androgens can bind to it (test,dht,ect). If it doesnt explain how it does this on their website then try doing some research on it. Thats pretty scientific.

It would not cause problems with the hair follicles by shutting down the androgen receptors but if you dont block the androgen receptors their might be problems for some people (hairloss).

A lot of people have reported positive results from using it. A lot of people dont give treatments time to work and if they just maintain they think its not working. I've read many reports of stoppage of hairloss and thickening of vellus hairs. Im really think about using it myself.

I dont know the exact half life but it says to use it once per day so that should be enough. Ultimate treatment? Well i wish but mabye it will be for some in combination with finasteride,dutasteride,minoxidil,ect. finasteride could be the ultimate treatment for some. It all depends on the person. I definetly think its worth trying to see if it helps. I've read that double bind studies were done on it so it looks to be helpfull.

 

[mre]

I have some Fluridil on the way so I'll keep everyone posted on the results. Hopefully, it makes it to Canada OK, that's my only concern at this point.

 

[stax]

Yeah im waiting untill they have their 1 month supply option available soon then im going to probabbly try it too.

 

[Fallout Boy]

Yeah im waiting untill they have their 1 month supply option available soon then im going to probabbly try it too.

what?? how long does it last right now?

 

[viperfish]

I use eucapil, but watch out for that alcohol. It has already started irritating my scalp. It has subsided some though.

 

[stax]

Right now they only have 3 month supplies at a time available. I'd rather buy a 1 month suppy at a time. They will have this option in a couple of weeks they told me.

 

[Fallout Boy]

hmm is it petty expensive??

not sure on what the prices are so if anyone knows what the price of spironolactone 5% is compared to Eucipal or any other Fluridil stuff that would be cool

 

[Bryan]

"Shutting down" androgen receptors is a very vague, non-technical expression! :wink:

In the one published fluridil study, they suggested that the drug possibly decreases the production of androgen receptor protein; in other words, it decreases the NUMBER of androgen receptors. I'd like to see further evidence that that's actually correct, before I believe it...

Bryan

 

[mre]

It is pretty expensive, but I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to give it a shot. Like most of us here, I have a hairloss budget and although it might be quite large in comparison to some people I wouldn't even be trying this if it wasn't for this forum. The reasons for this are two-fold. I found out about Eucapil on this forum. Secondly, I get minoxidil way cheaper than I used to now that I buy it online. Using/dividing Proscar has cut my finasteride costs to 25% percent of what they used to be. So with the extra cash I decided to give this treatment a try because in principal it sounds like a decent thing to try compared to a lot of the other crap that is sold out there.

 

[jimmystanley]

alright...so i obviously know nothing about how eucapidil works..haha. But some say it blocks androgen receptors...now bryan, you are saying that it actually starves them causing them do die? (or produce less)? that is fantastic!(if it's true) I think the ultimate treatment would be to rid our follicles of AR.

question...does anyone know if our body produces a certain amount of AR's and thats it...or if we produce more?

 

[stax]

jimmystanley, you ask some great questions that i think only scientists could give you the answers to lol.

Here is a statement from http://www.menspharma.com (the fluridil website):

"Male Pattern Baldness is associated with DHT (dihydrotestosterone) binding or attaching to androgen (male hormone) receptors in hair follicles. An example of currently available treatments that help to prevent DHT from binding to androgen receptors is Propecia. According to the manufacturers, Eucapil® (Fluridil) offers a new method of treatment, whereby activity in the androgen receptors themselves, is blocked. One of the key benefits of Eucapil® is that it is applied topically (i.e. directly to the scalp) thus eliminating the side effects associated with other treatments taken orally. This will be of particular interest to those of you who have experienced known side effects from orally administered treatments."

See so Fluridil blocks the androgen receptor so no andogens can bind to it such as DHT and Testosterone. This treatment seems very promising and again i've read lots of good feedback on users. I wish i could only use Xandrox 15 once at night and drop the Xandrox 5 in the day and use Fluridil in place of it. But i heard its best to use minoxidil twice a day for 2 or 3 years untill you can use it only once per day and i do need to keep stimulating these hairline/temple hairs to turn fully terminal. I wonder if Xandrox 15 once at night and Fluridil once per day would help these semi-terminal hairs grow to fully terminal hairs more effective than Xandrox 5 during the day and Xandrox 15 at night with no Fluridil. Any thoughts guys?

 

[fritz96]

Right now they only have 3 month supplies at a time available. I'd rather buy a 1 month suppy at a time. They will have this option in a couple of weeks they told me.

Last week I ordered and paid for a one month supply, I hope I don't have to wait another couple of weeks.

 

[hairschmair]

I did a search on fluridil on this forum and it goes a while back. I'm surprised we still don't have some reports as to whether it's working or not working for people.

I am very curious too.

 

[mre]

fritz96: Where did you buy the one month supply? The only places that I know of that sell it are menspharma and vitaminox who sell 3 and 2 months supplies respectively.

I order from vitaminox because the price was the same but I figured it was better to go with the 2 month supply to see how my scalp handles the alcohol.

stax: Here is my plan. I was trying to figure out how to fit Fluridil into my regimen and my plan is as follows. I'm going to use the greasy Kirklands minoxidil at night because it's so cheap and it will give it time to dry. Then in the morning I'll shower right when I wake up and use Dr. Lee's quick dry minoxidil after towel drying my hair. Lastly, I'll apply Eucapil, let it dry then style my hair. A couple of things to mention is that I have fine hair and when I towel dry it it is almost 100% dry with 10 mins. Lee's quick dry is supposed to dry very quickly, so from the time I put the minoxidil on I'll probably leave my hair for 45 minutes until applying Eucapil to make sure the scalp is absolutely dry. I don't sweat much and I work in an air conditioned office so I'm not worried about water/sweat breaking down the fluridil.

 

[Bryan]

alright...so i obviously know nothing about how eucapidil works..haha. But some say it blocks androgen receptors...now bryan, you are saying that it actually starves them causing them do die? (or produce less)? that is fantastic!(if it's true) I think the ultimate treatment would be to rid our follicles of AR.

I'm not quite sure I understand your questions. Let me make some general comments about androgen receptors: they are a specific complex protein that's produced by certain androgen-sensitive cells, just like any other protein. That protein is coded for by a certain gene (there's also apparently an "A" and "B" form of the androgen receptor, but let's not get in over our heads here! :wink: ). Like other proteins, it's produced by the cells on a regular basis, with a steady turnover as old proteins eventually get degraded and replaced by the new ones. The androgen receptors are dispersed through the cell's cytoplasm, as they await the binding of androgen molecules. Once they bind with androgens, the receptor/androgen complex migrates to the cell's nucleus where it binds with DNA to stimulate the activation of various androgen-sensitive genes (which may well include the gene which codes for the production of the androgen receptors themselves!).

question...does anyone know if our body produces a certain amount of AR's and thats it...or if we produce more?

As I indicated before, they are being produced steadily, with a regular turnover. According to one physiology textbook I've read, a typical cell may contain somewhere around 3,000-10,000 androgen receptors at any one time. Their production may be stimulated (or "upregulated") by certain conditions. For example, Sawaya claims to have found an intense upregulation of the production of androgen receptors in men who use finasteride. If that's correct, it's probably a natural "balancing" mechanism, as the cell attempts to maintain a certain level of androgenic stimulation.

The doctors who wrote that fluridil study seem a little vague to me about their claims for the drug. They _appear_ to be saying that it's an androgen receptor blocker like spironolactone and RU58841, but then they also seem to be saying that it may also downregulate the production of androgen receptors. I wish we could get a clarification of that! They may not know for sure THEMSELVES exactly what all the drug does.

Bryan

 

[fritz96]

http://www.menspharma.com/order.php?id=2

 

[pleasegodno]

bryan, from the fluridil patent:


Effects of BP-766 on the Androgen Receptor

The interaction of BP-766 with androgenic receptors was studied by incubation with LNCaP cells, (known to contain human AR), subsequent cell lysis and the Western Blot assay to identify and quantify the androgenic receptors protein. Table 1, below, shows average percent of remaining androgenic receptors contained in the lysate following 16, 24, and 48 hour incubation of the cells with BP-766, its byproduct of biodegradation, BP-34, and of the two standard systemic antiandrogens, bicalutamide and hydroxyflutamide, all run in duplicate.


TABLE 1
Percent Androgen Receptor Remaining in LNCaP Cells after incubation
with other antiandrogens.sup.1 and/or a degradation product of BP-766
Compound: @ 3.mu. Molar conc.: @ 10.mu. Molar conc.:
BP-766 47 9
16 hrs. incubation
BP-766 51 7.3
24 hrs. incubation
BP-766 59 4.1
48 hrs. incubation
BP-34 48 hrs. incub. 97 98
Bicalutamide.sup.2, 48 incub. 97 89
Hydroxyflutamide, 98 94
48 hrs. incub.
.sup.1 Resveratrol in this assay had a neglibible effect on AR, at 10 .mu.M
conc. About 46% AR remained. When cells were incubated together with 3
.mu.M Resveratrol/BP-766, (1:1), the combined effect was about twice as
great as with BP-766 alone, after 16 hrs incubation, suggesting synergy of
such combination.
.sup.2 AstraZeneca.



The systemic antiandrogens hydroxyflutamide and bicalutamide, did not a affect the androgenic receptors significantly at any concentration after 48 hrs., while BP-776 suppressed androgenic receptors at 3 .mu.M concentration within 16 hrs. and practically eliminated the androgenic receptors at 10 .mu.M concentration by 48 hours. BP-34, the aromatic product of degradation of BP-766, had no effect on the androgenic receptors.



http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/6828458

 

[chewbaca]

alright...so i obviously know nothing about how eucapidil works..haha. But some say it blocks androgen receptors...now bryan, you are saying that it actually starves them causing them do die? (or produce less)? that is fantastic!(if it's true) I think the ultimate treatment would be to rid our follicles of AR.

I'm not quite sure I understand your questions. Let me make some general comments about androgen receptors: they are a specific complex protein that's produced by certain androgen-sensitive cells, just like any other protein. That protein is coded for by a certain gene (there's also apparently an "A" and "B" form of the androgen receptor, but let's not get in over our heads here! :wink: ). Like other proteins, it's produced by the cells on a regular basis, with a steady turnover as old proteins eventually get degraded and replaced by the new ones. The androgen receptors are dispersed through the cell's cytoplasm, as they await the binding of androgen molecules. Once they bind with androgens, the receptor/androgen complex migrates to the cell's nucleus where it binds with DNA to stimulate the activation of various androgen-sensitive genes (which may well include the gene which codes for the production of the androgen receptors themselves!).


As I indicated before, they are being produced steadily, with a regular turnover. According to one physiology textbook I've read, a typical cell may contain somewhere around 3,000-10,000 androgen receptors at any one time. Their production may be stimulated (or "upregulated") by certain conditions. For example, Sawaya claims to have found an intense upregulation of the production of androgen receptors in men who use finasteride. If that's correct, it's probably a natural "balancing" mechanism, as the cell attempts to maintain a certain level of androgenic stimulation.

About the sawaya part..does thi smean FInasteride cause mor eharm than good?