Fluridil and shutting down AR! (best idea?)

[Bryan]

How could it do more harm than good?? It's been PROVEN to do more good than harm!

Bryan

 

[jimmystanley]

Bryan said "Their production may be stimulated (or "upregulated") by certain conditions. For example, Sawaya claims to have found an intense upregulation of the production of androgen receptors in men who use finasteride. If that's correct, it's probably a natural "balancing" mechanism, as the cell attempts to maintain a certain level of androgenic stimulation. " ....okay...so this is the stuff that freaks me out big time. Pleasegodno said "The systemic antiandrogens hydroxyflutamide and bicalutamide, did not a affect the androgenic receptors significantly at any concentration after 48 hrs., while BP-776 suppressed androgenic receptors at 3 .mu.M concentration within 16 hrs. and practically eliminated the androgenic receptors at 10 .mu.M concentration by 48 hours. BP-34, the aromatic product of degradation of BP-766, had no effect on the androgenic receptors. " so what is BP-776 (fluridil) if so, what is hydroxyflutamide? sorry...just not so 'with it'.

 

[Bryan]

BP-766 is fluridil. Hydroxyflutamide is the active metabolite of the antiandrogenic drug flutamide.

Bryan

 

[pleasegodno]

"The systemic antiandrogens hydroxyflutamide and bicalutamide..."

and, yes, bp-766 is fluridil.

edit: bryan beat me to it

 

[Fallout Boy]

what is all this saying exactly?? pretty much that Fluridil does work riight? lol

 

[Full Head of Hair]

Does anyone on this board have any history of using this stuff?

 

[bombel]

I used it for a few months as one of the very first things I used to stop hairloss. I thought I had good results, but I was not sure if it is of minoxidil or eucapil

It's expensive and for me not worth the money. I have very long hair and that alcohol was messing them so much, that I had to stop it! They say, that you should not wash your hair too often while using it, but I was not able to wash my hair other than once a day, because my hair looked like sh*t after I was waking up (I used eucapil before going to bed)

So, these are my thoughts. Some people claimed it worked for them. It certainly didn't for me

Dan

 

[stax]

bombel, You say you thought you had good results. Then you say Fluridil didn't work for you. Did it stop your hairloss or did it not work for you because you couldn't handle the high alcohol content and it made you hair look like sh*t in the morning?

 

[viperfish]

I used it for a few months as one of the very first things I used to stop hairloss. I thought I had good results, but I was not sure if it is of minoxidil or eucapil

It's expensive and for me not worth the money. I have very long hair and that alcohol was messing them so much, that I had to stop it! They say, that you should not wash your hair too often while using it, but I was not able to wash my hair other than once a day, because my hair looked like sh*t after I was waking up (I used eucapil before going to bed)

So, these are my thoughts. Some people claimed it worked for them. It certainly didn't for me

Dan

You used eucapil for 2 months? How can you even begin to conclude that it did not work? Unless, I'm misunderstanding you here? Interpharma Praha now claims that you can wash your hair every morning if you want.

 

[viperfish]

Bryan what do you make of this as far as using alcohol as the delivery vehicle: This is from lipoxidil.com, is this total bs????


""There are some new studies showing concerns about alcohol as caspase-3 and apoptosis inducer being contraproductive for the use of topical hairloss products. Activation of caspase 3 is thought to be a direct cause of cell apoptosis

Experiments revealed that processing of caspase-3 is a principal event during apoptosis of hair cell types.Conclusion: alcohol simular as TGF-b induces caspase-3 which causes apoptosis of hair cells.Alcohol strongly reduces the positive effect of anti-hairloss ingredients and should be reduced to a minimum or elimitated at all."

 

[Guest]

No one on this planet knows if fluridil works or not. It's probably because of the finasteride and min that they can't bloomin tell.

 

[rapidfrontal]

Bryan what do you make of this as far as using alcohol as the delivery vehicle: This is from lipoxidil.com, is this total bs????


""There are some new studies showing concerns about alcohol as caspase-3 and apoptosis inducer being contraproductive for the use of topical hairloss products. Activation of caspase 3 is thought to be a direct cause of cell apoptosis

Experiments revealed that processing of caspase-3 is a principal event during apoptosis of hair cell types.Conclusion: alcohol simular as TGF-b induces caspase-3 which causes apoptosis of hair cells.Alcohol strongly reduces the positive effect of anti-hairloss ingredients and should be reduced to a minimum or elimitated at all."

Well, I guess Dr. Lee's minoxidil with the high alcohol content might be a problem then, no?

 

[Bryan]

Bryan what do you make of this as far as using alcohol as the delivery vehicle: This is from lipoxidil.com, is this total bs????

""There are some new studies showing concerns about alcohol as caspase-3 and apoptosis inducer being contraproductive for the use of topical hairloss products. Activation of caspase 3 is thought to be a direct cause of cell apoptosis

Experiments revealed that processing of caspase-3 is a principal event during apoptosis of hair cell types.Conclusion: alcohol simular as TGF-b induces caspase-3 which causes apoptosis of hair cells.Alcohol strongly reduces the positive effect of anti-hairloss ingredients and should be reduced to a minimum or elimitated at all."

Over the years, I've learned to take what lipoxidil.com says with a grain or two of salt! :wink: If alcohol is so bad and "strongly reduces" the beneficial effect of hairloss topicals, then why did the group getting the placebo (alcohol and PPG, no minoxidil) in Vera Price's 1999 topical minoxidil study do just as well as the group that got no treatment at all??

Bryan

 

[viperfish]

Bryan what do you make of this as far as using alcohol as the delivery vehicle: This is from lipoxidil.com, is this total bs????

""There are some new studies showing concerns about alcohol as caspase-3 and apoptosis inducer being contraproductive for the use of topical hairloss products. Activation of caspase 3 is thought to be a direct cause of cell apoptosis

Experiments revealed that processing of caspase-3 is a principal event during apoptosis of hair cell types.Conclusion: alcohol simular as TGF-b induces caspase-3 which causes apoptosis of hair cells.Alcohol strongly reduces the positive effect of anti-hairloss ingredients and should be reduced to a minimum or elimitated at all."[/quote/]

Over the years, I've learned to take what lipoxidil.com says with a grain or two of salt! :wink: If alcohol is so bad and "strongly reduces" the beneficial effect of hairloss topicals, then why did the group getting the placebo (alcohol and PPG, no minoxidil) in Vera Price's 1999 topical minoxidil study do just as well as the group that got no treatment at all??

Bryan

Was Vera Price's study conducted over a full year? Or how long was the study? I wonder about that lipoxidil sight myself. I think the statement I listed above might be a "backlash" aganist Interpharma Praha or Menspharma as lipoxidil has discontinued selling Eucapil on their sight. I think Menspharma and Lipoxidil had some falling out of sorts. If alcohol was such a serious problem then it would seem minoxidil would not work as well or maybe even at all. Thanks for the info.

 

[viperfish]

No one on this planet knows if fluridil works or not. It's probably because of the finasteride and min that they can't bloomin tell.

What do you mean by that trax? I think it has already shown to be beneficial for male pattern baldness based on the couple of double-blind-placebo controlled tests that were conducted and published in two prestigious scientific journals.

 

[Bryan]

Was Vera Price's study conducted over a full year? Or how long was the study?

It lasted for a total of 120 weeks. I guess it's time to post the link again to those hairweight and haircount graphs from that study:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/quitting-minoxidil.htm

There you see the progress of the minoxidil users, the placebo users, and the subjects who didn't get any treatment at all. See how the placebo users who applied topical alcohol to their scalps twice a day hung right in there with the subjects who got no treatment at all?? :wink:

If alcohol was such a serious problem then it would seem minoxidil would not work as well or maybe even at all.

Exactly. This anti-alcohol theory is pretty silly...

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

What do you mean by that trax? I think it has already shown to be beneficial for male pattern baldness based on the couple of double-blind-placebo controlled tests that were conducted and published in two prestigious scientific journals.

I know of only one published study, the one in Dermatological Surgery. Is there a second one I don't know about?

Bryan

 

[viperfish]

What do you mean by that trax? I think it has already shown to be beneficial for male pattern baldness based on the couple of double-blind-placebo controlled tests that were conducted and published in two prestigious scientific journals.

I know of only one published study, the one in Dermatological Surgery. Is there a second one I don't know about?

Bryan

I believe Bryan this is the other study, but maybe I'm goofed up somewhere:

Seligson, et al. 2003. Development of Fluridil, A topical Suppressor of the Androngen Receptor in Androgenetic Alopecia. Drug Development Research 59: 292-306.

The one your thinking of was conducted in 2002 by Sovak, et al., in Dermatologic Surgey I believe, right? I believe the one by Seligson was the one I was thinking of, but don't quote me on that I'll have to search and find out for sure.

 

[viperfish]

Bryan this is straight from the eucapil website. I could not gain access to the article when I tried::::


A 12-month double-blind study of Eucapil® applied daily in male volunteers was conducted at the Palacky University Medical School Department of Dermatology (Olomouc, Czech Republic). As a measure of efficacy, a change in the number of growing versus dying hairs was observed by phototrichograms. In most subjects, increase in anagens (growing hair) and decrease in telogens (dying hair) was substantial. With daily application of 2 ml Eucapil® there were no changes in the hematological or hormonal profiles and no adverse systemic effects were observed. Using sophisticated equipment of high sensitivity (5 nanograms/ml) not even traces of fluridil or its decomposition fragments could be found in the blood. For a complete description of the clinical data, please refer to the article published in Dermatologic Surgery (Sovak et al., Dermatol Surg 28:678-685, 2002, with an erratum on p. 971). In addition, a summary of the 12-month trial is included in an article published in Drug Development Research (Seligson et al., Drug Dev Res 59:292-306, 2003).



Sorry, I guess it is just a summery of the original study, but I thought the original study in "Dermatologic Surgery" only went for 9 months, not 12 months??? Does this not make sense? Or were they separate studies, because the one in "Dermatologic Surgery" I thought was conducted in California. The 12 month study listed above was conducted in the Czech Republic. I think they were separate studies, but I'll have to recheck!
:?

 

[jimmystanley]

Bryan: thanks for the explanation...i have a better understanding as to how male pattern baldness works now. i understand that DHT inhibition can cause AR's to upregulate, but are there any studies to show that blocking AR's will cause an upregulation of ARs? (if this question makes any sense?)