Follica (first Time Ever Picture) - Exciting

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pegasus2

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HairOnFire said:
It's in the attachment on page 4 of this thread. I'd add it to this post, but I don't know how.

Concerning density, Follica mentions that 'Wounding Intensity' - which they define as depth and density - is important for regeneration. Most folks have focused on the depth part of the equation (how deep, in mm, the needles penetrate). Few have mentioned the density part of the equation. In the case of microneedling, density refers to the number of needle wounds in a given-sized area. They mentioned hair plucking (each hair pluck is a micro wound), as an example. The more hairs plucked (micro wounds) in a given-sized area, the more regeneration you get. The fewer wounds you make in an area, the less regeneration you get. This phenomenon is known as 'quorum sensing'.

One way to achieve higher density in a microneedling device is to have more needles. The closer together the needles are, the more needles you can fit in the head of the device. Presumably, in Follica's case, the size of the head of the device matches the optimal wound size, and they figured out the number of needles needed to make the optimal number of micro wounds inside the wound area, and they've figured out the precise depth, in mm, that the needles should penetrate the skin. So, when the device is placed against your skin, you immediately get the perfect number of needle wounds, spaced appropriately apart, at the perfect depth. They then move the device a little to the left or right, and repeat until they've treated the entire scalp (or whatever area of the scalp they are treating).
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A couple things to add to that. Too much density is also useless. If every hair in the area is plucked then there is no quorum sensing effect, which would be why dermabrasion failed for them. It scrapes every mm of skin. You probably can't go too dense with a needling pen, and certainly not with a roller, so you probably want to go as dense as you can with such devices. Optimal density should be over 200 wounds per cm².

Also, density seems to be not only as important, but more important than depth. Follica's graph shows treatments that are only .15mm depth to be greater intensity than those with 1.5mm depth because the density is higher.
 
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Iah11

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"Device Disruption followed by FC-007 (lithium gluconate 8% gel as a wnt pathway activator) vs. Device Disruption followed by vehicle (gel without the API)"

Is the pharmacological treatment lithium gluconate?
 
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pegasus2

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Iah11 said:
"Device Disruption followed by FC-007 (lithium gluconate 8% gel as a wnt pathway activator) vs. Device Disruption followed by vehicle (gel without the API)"

Is the pharmacological treatment lithium gluconate?
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Lithium gluconate failed. They got more regrowth with the device alone than with the device + lithium gluconate. The only pharmacological treatment we are currently certain of is minoxidil.
 
barfacan

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I wonder what (if any) effect your overall health has on the results of skin disruption and the subsequent hair follicle changes. Maybe specific vitamins/minerals/fatty acids would improve the effect.

Since wounding creates a healing response you would want the highest quality tissue to be grown, you need some inflammation but not too much, etc.

Maybe a cyclic ketogenic diet / short fasting period would help out for 1-2 days before/after the wounding procedure? There is evidence that ketogenic diet or calorie restriction shows positive effects against fibrosis in the body, which is exactly what we want to avoid.
 
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Iah11

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pegasus2 said:
Lithium gluconate failed. They got more regrowth with the device alone than with the device + lithium gluconate. The only pharmacological treatment we are currently certain of is minoxidil.
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You seem to be most knowledgable on this topic. I tried minoxidil and dermarolling last year without results. If you were to advise on the ideal derma rolling regimen, what would it be? Taking into consideration depth, frequency and density of needles.
 
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pegasus2

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barfacan said:
I wonder what (if any) effect your overall health has on the results of skin disruption and the subsequent hair follicle changes. Maybe specific vitamins/minerals/fatty acids would improve the effect.

Since wounding creates a healing response you would want the highest quality tissue to be grown, you need some inflammation but not too much, etc.

Maybe a cyclic ketogenic diet / short fasting period would help out for 1-2 days before/after the wounding procedure? for optimizing results anyway.
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There's no downside to being as healthy as possible, so why not try it. As for fasting, I think it's good for hair over the long term because of the health benefits, but in the short term it is a stressor.
 
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pegasus2

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Iah11 said:
You seem to be most knowledgable on this topic. I tried minoxidil and dermarolling last year without results. If you were to advise on the ideal derma rolling regimen, what would it be? Taking into consideration depth, frequency and density of needles.
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I've started an experiment on one of my temples doing .25mm daily, so we'll see how that goes. First thing is I would definitely switch from rolling to mechanical needling, as rolling is not going to give you optimal density. The Dhurat study we know works, and it is 1.5mm once a week. We know that is not optimal though. I think you want to wound at least once every 1 to 2 weeks. If I was just starting out I would try a dermapen at the highest speed with the maximum number of needles at .25-.5mm depth for five minutes across your entire scalp twice a week.
 
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Dimitri001

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HairOnFire said:
It's in the attachment on page 4 of this thread. I'd add it to this post, but I don't know how.

Concerning density, Follica mentions that 'Wounding Intensity' - which they define as depth and density - is important for regeneration. Most folks have focused on the depth part of the equation (how deep, in mm, the needles penetrate). Few have mentioned the density part of the equation. In the case of microneedling, density refers to the number of needle wounds in a given-sized area. They mentioned hair plucking (each hair pluck is a micro wound), as an example. The more hairs plucked (micro wounds) in a given-sized area, the more regeneration you get. The fewer wounds you make in an area, the less regeneration you get. This phenomenon is known as 'quorum sensing'.

One way to achieve higher density in a microneedling device is to have more needles. The closer together the needles are, the more needles you can fit in the head of the device. Presumably, in Follica's case, the size of the head of the device matches the optimal wound size, and they figured out the number of needles needed to make the optimal number of micro wounds inside the wound area, and they've figured out the precise depth, in mm, that the needles should penetrate the skin. So, when the device is placed against your skin, you immediately get the perfect number of needle wounds, spaced appropriately apart, at the perfect depth. They then move the device a little to the left or right, and repeat until they've treated the entire scalp (or whatever area of the scalp they are treating).
Click to expand...

And what do they say about depth?
 
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pegasus2

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Derelict said:
He was an amazing responder to finasteride though, which is rare, i think that helped his results.
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Yes, but it didn't do anything for his temples until he started dermarolling lightly every day.
 
alscarmuzza

alscarmuzza

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From the 2018 annual report. This gives a clue as to a two prong approach to development for Follica.
Capture.PNG
 
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HairOnFire

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Do we know if microneedling into a scar would produce new follicles? I am wondering about FUE scars, specifically.
 
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tomJ

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alscarmuzza said:
From the 2018 annual report. This gives a clue as to a two prong approach to development for Follica.
View attachment 132824
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I could be mistaken but all that tells me is their current process is micro needling plus minoxidil and that some time down the road they will add with other compounds that they are JUST beginning to experiment with. Dont hold your breath, it took them over 10 years to copy and refine dhurats discovery. Add another 10 to develop and test new compounds.
 
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HairOnFire

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Xander94 said:
so small depth but alot of needles?
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Makes you wonder if nanoneedling is more appropriate for our purposes than microneedling. Nanoneedling devices contain dozens of needle-like projections at a depth of about 0.15mm.
 
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