Follica - Good News!

[michael barry]

Ive not had sides with finas, but respect the fact that others have had sides with it



the hair created with follica is made in the same part of the scalp that one went male pattern baldness in, so unless the can isolate and identify and block certain genes during the process of creating these follicles, I would suspect one would be smart to stay on finasteride even after they are created.....................One would definitely be on the Epidermal growth factor blocker, the anti-androgen (finas or dutas), and be using minoxidil and the other adjuvants after the skin-repilithialization period (starting about three days after the wounding until day 12 or so)....................for that amount of time. I imagine about 10 days will be the treatment duration.

But it has to work, and they are having a human trial probably this summer. My fingers are crossed because if not this.....................frankly there is nothing on the near term horizion and we'd more than likely would be looking at about 2015 or later for something else *(like cell-injected Hair Multiplaication of Intercytex, Aderans, or those other two companies, one in Japan and one new one in San Diego whose name escapes me)

 

[ross007]

thanks m barry.... i think we've all got our fingers crossed.. now all this money is being spent into this research let hope we get good results.... god willing!

 

[jared_24]

thanks m barry.... i think we've all got our fingers crossed.. now all this money is being spent into this research let hope we get good results.... god willing!

AND which will be released sometime very soon, i.e. within the next 12 months!!!

Dunno about everyone else, but I'm starting to get pretty desperate for a treatment to become available that effectively restores hairlines (and which will not leave me with a permanent scar!!)

 

[chancer]

thanks m barry.... i think we've all got our fingers crossed.. now all this money is being spent into this research let hope we get good results.... god willing!

AND which will be released sometime very soon, i.e. within the next 12 months!!!

Dunno about everyone else, but I'm starting to get pretty desperate for a treatment to become available that effectively restores hairlines (and which will not leave me with a permanent scar!!)

here here....

the one nemisis of hairloss treatment is the Hairline, if they nail that, the rest easy. i'd take a bald spot in the vertex anyday of the week over a receeded hairline. lets hope we are even more exited about this in the fall when hopfully the human trialist will have started to see great results... the this thread will be on meltdown if that happens...

Big shouts to Orinin, M barry and Harold who keep sifting through articles to bring us these pipedreams to cling to....

 

[Orin]

So I had a couple of minutes to procrastinate doing actual work again, and took another swing at finding drugs, and I found this.

There seems to be two drugs on the market for treating lung-cancer that work the same way, by targeting epidermal growth factor receptors (EGFR). These drugs are the previously mentioned (and mind-boggingly expensive) Gefitinib, and Erlotinib. Truth be told, I haven't read up much about either, and since I'm just a google-monkey, I have no idea how they work. But I get the sense that they're pretty much the same. The important thing is that they both inhibit EGF, and the drugs seem to be used interchangebly when I read a few medical articles. So let's just say they are equal.

Now, I didn't find any generic version of the latter, BUT I found several reposts of the same article that said that Indian company Cipla (most awesomest medical company evahr), are aiming to do with cancer-drugs what they did with aids/hiv-medicine - that is, piss off the rest of the world's top medical companies by "reverse-engineering" (read: legally steal them) their drugs, and sell them at a fraction of the cost.

You know, so not only financially well-off white folks get to live.

Anyway, this was posted in january, 2008. It *seems* from what I can gather that there's basically nothing stopping Cipla from doing this. What it does mean, in the long run is the following, and if we assume these assumptions are true:

A) Gefitinib and Erlotinib are, for all intents and purposes, the same.
B) Follica uses Gefitinib, which is expensive, even in the generic version.
C) Cipla makes a generic version of Erlotinib and, quote "We will also try to export it [Erlotinib]to other markets at an affordable price".
D)Follica is successful and when they finally roll around in a year or two, Cipla will have launched the generic version fo Erlotinib, which you buy.
E) When all is said and done, you'd most likely have access to all key-ingredients in the Follica method, which then can be done, by yourself, for a couple of hundred dollars provided you're willing to put in some DIY-time and discipline.

This is tangentially connected to Follica, and more of a long-term thing SHOULD their product turn out to be indeed awesome. Why Follica is using Gefitinib over Erlotinib I have no idea. One was perhaps cheaper than the other at the time, or one was more well-documented than the other, etc.

Another thing to note is that Gefitinib is, as I posted before, out there for a semi-affordable price of approx. 600 dollars. If that falls in line with what Cipla deems as "affordable" remains to be seen. Perhaps it does, or perhaps, like their other drugs, we're talking about ten percent of the cost. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they could get 30 tablets down to 200 dollars or something. This is India, after all, and on top of that they're clearly interested in getting their products out at humane prices.

Anyway, thought it could provide something. If for nothing else than to have another drug to talk about, one that hopefully is analog to Gefitinib in every way. Cheers.


EDIT: Well, apparently it's not terribly cheap. Cipla got the go to start making a generic version for sale in India (only, I assume). The cost is quoted to be about 40 dollars per pills, which is still better than Gefitinib, which sells for alittle over 60 per pill (68 dollars I believe, and that's for the generic version; real version is about 250 dollars a pill).

Interestingly enough, there's a second generic pharmaceudical company fighting over this, called Natco, who are aiming for a slightly cheaper price. Not by much; Cipla's pills are 1,600 Indian rupee for 10 pills, Natco goes for 1,400. But I guess it's something.

Didn't find any online-outlet for the drugs, and judging by the date of the news reports this thing is probably just now rolling out, meaning it would probably take a few months for the pills to be available online. My guess is that Erlotinib is just newer than Gefitinib, which is already in generic form. Cipla's version is called Erlocip.

It might work out that the cost-per-miligram makes, like with propecia and finasteride, one version of the drug MUCH cheaper than the other. Also, we don't know at what strenghts we need this for a 10 day topical. Given that a topical solution would be more effective dosage-wise (as it's applied to a small, concentrated area rather than be juggled about your entire bloodstream), I wouldn't be surprised if the cost works out to be suprisingly low.

It's just that you (unfortunately) can't buy 5 tablets for 200 dollars.

On the bright side of things - these are *really* new drugs. The fact that they are already out as generics in one way or another, is pretty awesome. Cost of drugs usually go down rather than up as time progresses.

 

[chancer]

so we are following follkica's methods in their trials, we know what he aplication is thus far... we have located the availability of the drugs being used.

We could in effect DIY this ourselves now. Of course it would be silly to do so and not wait at least till Fall till we will hopfully have more updates from Follica.

But guys... it makes you wonder how follica are going to stop everyone from going down a more DIY route, unless they make this really affordable so that we all nip into our local Follica branch for the treatment.

in 5-6 months this thread will have progressed so much. i wonder who will be the first to DIY it....?

 

[Orin]

I've said this before, but I think I should say it again.

You are *grossly* over-estimating to what lenghts the average person is willing to go. We are talking about purchasing every drug separately (at prices and through means that are a hassle - you *will* get a alot of leftovers), mixing them together (how do you do that?) and then wounding yourself (with what, and how much and do I have to shave my head and oh no! complicated!) and then not f*** up the healing process.

Seriously, I know people who are willing to pay me 50 dollars (equivalent) to change their printer color. Their laser printer. Their open-the-door-clearly-marked-color-and-inserting-a-compact-plastic-piece-and-then-closing-the-door. It takes 10 seconds. But it sounds complicated on a whim.

I can't imagine the look on these regular folks' faces if I told them about Follica and prefaced it with "oh it's _easy_ all you do is...".

Boards such as these suffer from what I call "hardcore" mentality, in which an extreme or specialized point of view becomes so dominant that there's a noticable gap in both mental frame of mind, and just pure intellectually available data once you discuss whatever you discuss on the forums, with someone "from the outside".

Well, suffer is kind of a harsh word. I have nothing against it, I'm into a lot of specialized crap that most people would deem too complicated/intellectual/stupid/time-wasting. It's just basic psychology really.

So I wouldn't worry about it. I think Follica will do fine. I read on a similar forum, a so-so "press release", or rather, a statement from someone working at Follica that basically said
"thank you for your interest in Follica, we will not disclose any more information, so don't constantly email or call us and for the love of god stop twisting every word we say. To avoid losing control over the image of our product, we won't talk about it until it's close to done."

That's the gist of it, and is just symptomatic when an outside-source enters a realm with a hardcore mentality about things. We're so used to picking things apart and re-assembling them that we might not think how detrimental that is to a product such as Follica's.

Some forums are rallying up money and organizing themself to get an interview with Follica, which is sensible on the *inside*, but ludicrous if you have fresh eyes.
If Follica *wanted* to say anything in an interview, they'd pick up the phone and the next day they are on the world's biggest news sites. They don't need some extremly specialized little site about hairloss. An interview with Follica is exacly what they don't want us to have, because we would ask questions that maybe their peers would ask; not general fluff-questions about the overall concept, but rather precise questions that would divulge way too much information.

It's not for lack of opportunity they don't blabber on in one nterview after another. I guess sometimes we just have to get ahold of ourself.

EDIT: Well, look at that. They won't let me swear on this forum. That's absolutely adorable!
Oh, and I appologize if I came off sounding like a dick, that was absolutely not my intention. I guess it strayed into a stream-of-consciousness thing.

 

[joemadrid]

You can buy Gefitinib, 010 mg
EUR 171

http://www.proteinkinase.biz/Shop/page. ... 306&cid=78

Can we make a topical of that?

UPDATE: yes whe can

Molecular weight 446.9 g/mol. Solubility: soluble in DMSO or glacial acetic acid. Chemical formula C22H24ClFN4O3. Purity: >99,9% (HPLC). Appearance: crystallin powder.

A minoxidil+Gefitinib topical could be cheap + taking dutas internaly 2.5mg during one moth or so.

I got my dremel tool, also have access to an abrasion laser at my local hairdresser

 

[NicholasLim]

Is it true that FOllica will most probably be out in another 12 months if it is working ?!! How much would it cost probably?

 

[first]

You could always try with potato carboxypeptidase inhibitor (PCI) instead, it should be a cheaper alternative.

 

[ross007]

ummmm i think we will no more on their progress in a years time from now...... doubt very must it will be out next year... and i wouldnt have a clue how much it would cost.... there is another university that found the gene to reverse hair loss... it just a matter of time now!

 

[Orin]

170 euro is prohibitively expensive, and 0,010 gram is not much to play around with. Would have been great were it the generic version. Good find though. Perhaps someone with an adventureous spirit and a hefty wallet want to give it a go.

"First" - Do you know how potent the potato thing is? I've ordered caffeine, which apparently has a mild EGFR-anatagonism effect. Doubt it will do much good though. Both caffeine and this potato thing is a natural antagonist, while the patent stresses synthetic antagonists. Exacly why, we do not know. Could be that it's more profitable in the long run to use synthetics, which cannot be copied or obtained easily.

 

[michael barry]

there is a drug called lefloumonide (Arava is its brand name because I know I spelled that wrong) that is mentioned in the follica patent that is cheap---or much much cheaper than the other drugs mentioned. It inhibits egf-by a more indirect route. its an arthritis medication.

 

[Orin]

right, but the cancer-drugs seem to be repeatedly mentioned in the patent, leading some to believe that it is the *key* ingredient. Also, that nose-hair article is a pretty significant marker for how potent it is in creating new hair.

 

[jambri]

Well, I have the budget to buy plenty of this so it's tempting, but I don't know about the dermabrasion side of things. That still seems unclear.

 

[SoThatsLife]

Wouldn't it be quite embarrassing to go to the ER with a infected wound on your scalp and end up in the "Follica at home"- line?

I would much rather wait a year to see if Follica(trained professionals with all the drugs and equipment in the world) get it to work before I would start experimenting on my own head. And I would probably not try it at home even if it did work. Follica is probably more worried that doctors with access to a co2 laser would experimenting with their treatment on themselves or on bald patients.

If you decide to go ahead and do it, at least talk to a professional first, so you know what to do if anything goes wrong. A bald head will still look alot better than a bald head with a big infected scar! Not even baldhead loving chicks would dig that. But you maybe get some girls with scarfetish..

 

[chancer]

Wouldn't it be quite embarrassing to go to the ER with a infected wound on your scalp and end up in the "Follica at home"- line?

I would much rather wait a year to see if Follica(trained professionals with all the drugs and equipment in the world) get it to work before I would start experimenting on my own head. And I would probably not try it at home even if it did work. Follica is probably more worried that doctors with access to a co2 laser would experimenting with their treatment on themselves or on bald patients.

If you decide to go ahead and do it, at least talk to a professional first, so you know what to do if anything goes wrong. A bald head will still look alot better than a bald head with a big infected scar! Not even baldhead loving chicks would dig that. But you maybe get some girls with scarfetish..

The dermabrasion process wont give you a scar, imagine rubing some light sand paper on you head, it will take a few layers of skin off, may scab over and be a bit sore but wouldnt scar. and its unlikley anyone would go at their full head to try this, we are talking about trying it in a inch square area perhaps on the crown or temple where you can pass any mark off as a bump on the head... of course if that was sucessfull and that area grew substancial hair, then that would be major news to all of us....

 

[joemadrid]

there is a drug called lefloumonide (Arava is its brand name because I know I spelled that wrong) that is mentioned in the follica patent that is cheap---or much much cheaper than the other drugs mentioned. It inhibits egf-by a more indirect route. its an arthritis medication.

Hi michael. Do we know a topical version of this drug?

 

[jambri]

If someone has the definitive answer on how deep the dermabrasion should be, then that would be useful to know.

Some people seem to think just a few layers of skin, others think it should be deeper.

What has Follica said about this in their patents? Is it clear?

 

[jared_24]

Although i'm not too sure if this is happening, but I personally don't think ANYBODY(!!) should be encouraged to 'experiment' doing this treatment and carrying out a dermabrasion on themselves!! :nono:

Believe me, there is nobody in the world more desperate than I am to regrow hair, but this procedure has to be carried out (or at least supervised) by a professional. This is NOT something people should be 'experimenting' with. Apart from the dermabrasion process itself which could be particularly damaging if you do not know what you are doing, mixing and taking the improper dosage of the drugs needed could also be extremely harmful and may seriously jeopardise your general health.

Even if somebody did carry out the treatment 'by themselves' and gained a positive result, it would be TOTALLY and UTTERLY irresponsible to start encouraging other users on the forum to do the same. Like I said earlier, treatments of this kind NEED to be carried out by professionals. If something were to go wrong, you could end up permanently damaging the skin or even end up with a nasty looking scar.

Apart from the above, we still do not know if this treatment is effective or if it actually works. I was reading an interesting post on baldingblog.com whereby Dr. William Rassman (an male pattern baldness specialist) stated that although the new Follica treatment had good potential, admitted that "there have been many treatments promised the world, but little delivered."

So, in the meantime lets just leave all the experimenting and human trials to Follica and keep this thread to a strictly 'discussion' based conversation....