Follica - Good News!

goata007

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Orin, that last part wasn't directed at you. It was for other people, because i've noticed too many people sandpapering and one brave soul even went ahead with a dremel! :roll:

I just don't want anyone to hurt themselves, after reading one of my posts.
 

Orin

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goata007 said:
Orin, that last part wasn't directed at you. It was for other people, because i've noticed too many people sandpapering and one brave soul even went ahead with a dremel! :roll:

I just don't want anyone to hurt themselves, after reading one of my posts.

That's what I mean. You're handing out general warnings, whereas I am an optimist in thinking people are surely considering the effects a dremel would have on your head before actually doing so. I do that a lot - think highly of people's ability to reason that is :)

Again, I think we mean the same thing. I don't want anyone to hurt themself either, and I do realize the risk of having these kinds of discussions on an open forum. It's not like it's just you and me and a handful of others who are posting who are also reading. I guess it's good to periodically hand out warnings, though it does stuff up the thread now and then.

Open forums are a double-edged sword.

EDIT: Speaking of the sun, I've been out all day in it - which might explain my meandering to-and-fro postings. As an almost-albino, I'm quite sensitive to the sun and get "sun-tiredness" after a few hours. It's basically like being drunk, stripped from all the good parts of it. I guess the up-side is that my skin take minimal damage, apart from what I myself subject it to ;)

When I''m 40 I'll look like 20 - hopefully.
 

goata007

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Orin said:
EDIT: Speaking of the sun, I've been out all day in it - which might explain my meandering to-and-fro postings. As an almost-albino, I'm quite sensitive to the sun and get "sun-tiredness" after a few hours. It's basically like being drunk, stripped from all the good parts of it. I guess the up-side is that my skin take minimal damage, apart from what I myself subject it to ;)

Actually, your skin is much more prone to premature aging and skin cancer because you have very little melanin in your skin - the stuff that protects darker skinned people from harmful sunrays. Unless, of course, you avoid sun exposure or wear sunscreen often. Also, people with darker skin color age much better than light skinned people.
 

zxAddict

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So what about Retinoic acid? That stuff chemical peels my scalp just dandy after three days applying at night. Is that good?
 

Orin

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I know about white vs dark skinned sun tolerance. I was alluding to me, due to nausea, keep away from the sun. I'm always the whitest guy around.

Retinoic acid appears to be somewhere just below TCA (generally speaking; it's all about %) in terms of peels. So yeah, depending on what concentration it is, it should be a good peel. In very low doses it's used to prime (exfoliate) the skin before applying a peel.
 

first

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Any thoughts on ascorbic acid (vitamin C)? As it is so easy to get and quite cheap.
 

joemadrid

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Have you note that when you burn your skin with acid, it becomes unpigmeted like hairy scalp?

This photo is from yesterday, you could see the crust of using the dremel below and the acid burn in the circle. If you burn your skin only a bit becomes red, like the center of the circle, but if you maintain acid a bit more in the skin it becomes white.

pierna1.jpg
 

chancer

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this is the thing....

At the moment we can count on one hand the amount of ppl who are participating or about to start participating in DIY testing our theories.... which is great and we WILL find some success however little or great it come to be.

But have you seen the hits this thread gets? its gargantuan!! and we have to take into consideration that kids will scan the 40-odd pages of info written to build up to what we have accumulated, and unwittingly attempt our theories without the slow, deep and rationalized though we have put into every step.

There have been times where i have though we should keep some theories in an "email" forum between the more focused members then when we are more concrete on the conclusion to a theory, we can then post it for the kids to take on board.

I don’t want people going to the doctors with blotchy scars on their faces due to excessive sandpapering or deep penetrable chemical peels.

Though it defeats the ethos of the internet to lock information away, in some cases it could be an advantage and only publish safer information we have concluded.

but by doing so we wouldn’t get new members wanting to help participate, and the more members working in this the sooner we can eliminate what doesn’t work and conclude what does...
 

first

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chancer said:
There have been times where i have though we should keep some theories in an "email" forum between the more focused members then when we are more concrete on the conclusion to a theory, we can then post it for the kids to take on board.
Every now and then a new member comes in and gives his perspective on things, sometimes with fresh and new ideas. If it was in closed form, it wouldn't happen.

If people really want to harm themselves, they will always find a way to do it. What you can do is only inform and hope for the best.

It is also doubtful anyone would have to go to do the doctor due to sandpapering. If it starts bleeding you know you've gone too far and even if that happens the wound will heal just like any other wound. With peeling you may want to be more careful however.

What neutralizers do people have in mind for the acid?
 

joemadrid

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There is one important note about acid burns. Some people think that if you diluted the acid it becomes less dangerous... but this is not true at all... diluting acid could become in more deep burns because it takes time to your skin to show damage. Is like a solar burn. It could be 24 hours until the burn starts to show. And when you apply the acid... how do you know about the effect? The white skin I got it is pretty difficult that be pigmented again.

Also diluted acid goes deeper in the skin because is molecular blended with water or whatever you use.

Also I do not want that anyone worries about a simple crust or a 3cm acid burn in my leg... guys... Do you never have got a crust when you play sports? Have you never be burned while cooking? Come one, we are not doing anything rare or extreme, people sees piercings in the tongue like something normal today, huge tattoos, and hair transplant surgeons literally cuts part of your head, so I do not how this could be more dangerous.

I have used sulfuric acid at 98% and do not recommend anyone that play with that. But also think about using diluted acid, you are not going to be able to see the acid effect in your skin until 24 or 48 hour BEFORE you apply it, that is the plus of a abrasion using a strong acid or a mechanical system. So be careful with that.

And there are a lot of sites that do laser abrasion for cheap, so this is an option also.
 

biancolone

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Hi to all, I'm new and I'm writing from Italy.
I read the last pages, where discussion was focused on the abrasion of the skin.
I read the patent and I'm trying to work with a doctor to do a simple protocol with some volenteers.
I have some question:
If I find gefitinib, I read that it's soluble in DMSO.
In the patent the range of use is from 0,001 to 0,1.
What do you think of a formulation like this?

0,05% gefitinib
2% minoxidil
glycole
alchol
dmso

Were there other formulations mentioned in this discussion that have worked well?

Thanks!
 

goata007

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biancolone said:
0,05% gefitinib
2% minoxidil
glycole
alchol
dmso
Thanks!

While you're at it, why not follow the patent closely? we don't even know if gefitinib would be as effective topically or not. So maybe give oral doses of gefitinib, lithium & minoxidil? Because it's not so much about topical application vs oral, it's more about activating and/or inhibiting the right pathways to get maximum regrowth.

Btw, how many volunteers do you have? when do you expect to start the trial?
 

biancolone

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goata007 said:
While you're at it, why not follow the patent closely? we don't even know if gefitinib would be as effective topically or not.So maybe give oral doses of gefitinib, lithium & minoxidil? Because it's not so much about topical application vs oral, it's more about activating and/or inhibiting the right pathways to get maximum regrowth.

Hi goata007, thank you for the answer.

I read in the patent: "the invention further features a kit including a composition formulated for topical administration including.."

I don't find in any part of the text, something about oral assumption. And, for sure, I'm not interested to take oral minoxidil. Gefitinib itself, is a drug that could have bad effects (skin disorder are known) and we would like to follow the safer way.

And, for what I have understood of the patent, I tried to follow it as close as possible.

Btw, how many volunteers do you have? when do you expect to start the trial?

For now, there are 2 or 3 persons interested, but, as you cas see, we are still trying to understand some things and we are searching input for a better knowledge.

After the decision about the formulation, if there's no problem to find the elements, the trial could start quite shortly.
 

first

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biancolone said:
Hi to all, I'm new and I'm writing from Italy.
I read the last pages, where discussion was focused on the abrasion of the skin.
I read the patent and I'm trying to work with a doctor to do a simple protocol with some volenteers.
I have some question:
If I find gefitinib, I read that it's soluble in DMSO.
In the patent the range of use is from 0,001 to 0,1.
What do you think of a formulation like this?

0,05% gefitinib
2% minoxidil
glycole
alchol
dmso

Were there other formulations mentioned in this discussion that have worked well?

Thanks!
I would add lithium.

I am not sure what you mean with glycole though. Glycolic acid or ethylene glycole?
 

joemadrid

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first said:
I am not sure what you mean with glycole though. Glycolic acid or ethylene glycole?

ethylene glycol is dangerous, needs to be propylene glycol.
 

biancolone

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joemadrid said:
ethylene glycol is dangerous, needs to be propylene glycol.

Yes you are right, propylene glycol, sorry for the error.

But.. why adding lithium if gefitinib has the same porpouse, but (I think) more efficency?
Thanks
 

masculineyourheart

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Nah, you're getting it confused with EGCG from green tea extract.

Gefitnib and green tea inhibit EGFR while lithium mimics the wnt pathway, hopefully tricking the skin into growing new hair follicles instead of skin. Or something like that.

goata007 said:
While you're at it, why not follow the patent closely? we don't even know if gefitinib would be as effective topically or not. So maybe give oral doses of gefitinib, lithium & minoxidil? Because it's not so much about topical application vs oral, it's more about activating and/or inhibiting the right pathways to get maximum regrowth.

Btw, how many volunteers do you have? when do you expect to start the trial?

Oral doses of lithium and minoxidil when he doesn't look to have a good understanding of the mechanism? Not dissing your knowledge of the subject goata, but having him mess around with oral doses is probably not a good idea just yet.
 

Orin

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All acids are not created equal, and most certainly not in terms of peeling methods. If you're going to do a peel, buy a peel from a reputable site. Sulfuric acid for example, is something that can be found in low-grade peeling solutions (TCA), and can stain, discolor or age the skin. Using only sulfuric acid to abrade the skin, is logically a very unwise decision. Using a recognized peeling acid could re-pigment your skin however, though it depends on how the skin lost its color (going too deep makes skin lose pigment, and using acids that are toxic to skin-pigments, like phenol, is another way of discoloring your skin).

Your scalp is usually pale because it does not get enough sun. It seems backwards to assume (if you were) that getting de-pigmented skin from a peel, is an indication that the peel will sprout hair when used on the scalp. Skin de-pigmentation is nothing positive in and of itself. Done correctly, you can do up to, and including, medium peels without making your skin lighter in color.

Stick to known things - don't be a cheapo and use whatever you have in your tool-shed to degrease engines and strip off paint.

Glycolic acid is good, and so is Salicylic acid - the latter perhaps even more so as it is anti-inflammatory, so less complications afterwards. It also effectively cleans pores and dissolves scalp-grease.

http://www.platinumskincare.com/ seem to be a good site to buy from. You can buy sample-sizes that should be good for one use, if you want to try different ones. They also sell acid neutralizers, making the damage more controllable.

You don't need a neutralizer with TCA, if that's what you will pick, as it is self-neutralizing after a few minutes on the skin (it turns white).
 

Ouroboros

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Hey guys, I know chemical peels seem the way to go, but I just had a wacky idea for the guys using sandpaper. When I was taking a shower the other day it occurred to me that a lot of soaps or facial scrubs (like Nivea etc) have "microbeads" or whatever in them, basically it just feels like little bits of sand in there to ex foliate the skin. Now, instead of using sandpaper, why not just scrub the s*** out of your head with this kinda stuff? It wouldn't be as deep as sandpapering, but it seems like it would be more even and easier (even pleasurable) to do...of course it would only work if you shaved your head, but what do you think?
 

chancer

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suffice to say....

i have dark red hair but blonde eyebrows, i once decided to dye my eyebrows light brown.

after 15 mins i looked in the mirror and freaked... it just looked so wrong..

So i got a wet towel and started to scrub in a desperate attempt to wear the dye of the eyebrow hair... after a few minutes i gave up, the skin around the brow looked pinkish to red and sore...

after a few days it lightly scabbed a little... scrubing did get the dye off a little bit, but i looked like i'd been slapped about the eyes for a few days (note… not punched) ... i guess that in itself was a dermabrasion... and that was just with a wet cotton towel... i didn’t put too much effort and pressure into it...

So maybe its possible and safer to try first time around to soak your head in a warm bath of 20 mins then apply some scrubbing pressure to the temple / balding scalp area until it’s a bit pink? Might be a better suggestion for first timers… im thinking of trying it when my holidays come around.

Warm soaked skin deiffinetly would make the application easier imo
 
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