Follica - Good News!

[first]

Here is what Im going to do:
1) Tonight, I'll depilate by plucking three little areas : above my left eyebrow, behind my ear, at the nape of one side of my neck (have a little more hair on the other side anyway).

2) I'll wait three days...........I think the patent says three days anyway to get the plucked hairs all in anagen.


3) I'll abrade with sandpaper, and wait four days.

4) After four days, Im going to us milk thistle extract until day ten. I'll also apply minoxidil around, but not directly on, the wounded area until day ten. I'll probably also take a pinch of lithium chloride (tastes like salt) until day ten

5) Im not going to wash the areas abraded until day ten.


In a month or so, I guess we will see if this series of actions results in anything.

I am glad you are starting to experiment on your own and wish you all the luck possible.

I have some thoughts regarding your setup.

Instead of concentrated thistle tea, I would consider using silibinin, the active substance or even better, siliphos, which is a substance made to be ten times more bioavailable than silibinin. I would also use DMSO as a carrier for the silymarin (which ever you choose), especially considering it may have an activating effect on the wnt/beta-catenin pathway. Adding a DHT blocker may also be considered, in order to counter the DKK-1 gene (which in turn otherwise downregulates the wnt).

I would also make sure the area in question is large enough for the proper process to take effect.

What is your reasoning behind not applying minoxidil directly on the affected area?

 

[FollicaLover]

Hi!,

sorry, maybe it's a "nonsense" question but, people who are testing yourselves the follica patent.. I think, if Follica is now just starting the tests with humans, side effects on humans are not yet known so, aren't you worried about that?

 

[Moomin]

iIm guessing that becuase minxodil is carried in alcohol, the alcohol would act as a disinfectant effectively cleaning the wound; the follica patent would suggest that the wound should heal unaided. I have been wondering myself how important this is, and if it is what other carrying agents could be used for topical minxodil and where could you source it.

 

[first]

iIm guessing that becuase minxodil is carried in alcohol, the alcohol would act as a disinfectant effectively cleaning the wound; the follica patent would suggest that the wound should heal unaided. I have been wondering myself how important this is, and if it is what other carrying agents could be used for topical minxodil and where could you source it.

DMSO works as a carrier for almost anything.

However, in the patent follica uses ethanol themselves as a carrier in many of the examples.

 

[Moomin]

Yeah, I didn't know about the use of ethanol in the patent in whatever form but I didn't think it made a large difference anyway. Infact I think the only questions left are whether there is / are an EGFR inhibitor that is readily available and doesn't reduce Wnt expression.

Also is an over expression of Wnt over normal that important I have read information and posted on here that it may not be of any help as far as inducing activated stem cells. This was posted in research conducted in the end of last year, so its quite recent and is still under study.

 

[first]

Also is an over expression of Wnt over normal that important I have read information and posted on here that it may not be of any help as far as inducing activated stem cells. This was posted in research conducted in the end of last year, so its quite recent and is still under study.

I think it plays a major part.

I did an experiment with a green tea extract, finasteride, caffeine, minodixil and ethanol combo without success. Possibly because the area in question was too small but also quite possibly due to green tea blocking the wnt pathway.

 

[Moomin]

hmmm, i'd have to ask what degree of reepithelisation you experienced, as i've noted on other forums people haven't caused sufficient woudning or had gone over board and this does play an important role, it has to be just right.

Assuming you did wound correctly though, thats quite interesting. I think the item that we should all have on our christmas list is an EGFR inhibitor that does dont block Wnt, I think its only Wnt7a that is important anyway. Once we've found and sourced this there should be no difficulty in conducting two experiments that are identical with the exception that Wnt expression is increased in one (which should be relatively easy to do). Once we have the results of both the question can be answered once and for all. I'd be happy to try this out on myself as soon as we find this elusive component.

 

[first]

hmmm, i'd have to ask what degree of reepithelisation you experienced, as i've noted on other forums people haven't caused sufficient woudning or had gone over board and this does play an important role, it has to be just right.

Assuming you did wound correctly though, thats quite interesting. I think the item that we should all have on our christmas list is an EGFR inhibitor that does dont block Wnt, I think its only Wnt7a that is important anyway. Once we've found and sourced this there should be no difficulty in conducting two experiments that are identical with the exception that Wnt expression is increased in one (which should be relatively easy to do). Once we have the results of both the question can be answered once and for all. I'd be happy to try this out on myself as soon as we find this elusive component.

I think my wounding was done correctly. I filed until it felt like it was about to bleed, but there was no bleeding at all. Applying the solution made it sting however. It should be noted that I applied the solution straight away, no waiting time and that I did not pluck any hairs before hand.

There was a crust which fell off after a few days. It should also be noted that I only applied the solution for approximately one week.

 

[Orin]

Great to see people trying those EGFR-inhibitors, or just trying at all.

I guess it goes without saying, but make sure you're on propecia or similar during those 10 days. It's entirely possible that my regrowth could be attributed to the new/awoken hair wasn't constantly attacked. I guess if this works out, the next step would be to try out something that surpresses the immune system (preferably locally, if such a thing exists) during those 10 days. I believe that's mentioned in the patent too as a possible tool.
Though hopefully it won't be needed

 

[first]

Great to see people trying those EGFR-inhibitors, or just trying at all.

I guess it goes without saying, but make sure you're on propecia or similar during those 10 days. It's entirely possible that my regrowth could be attributed to the new/awoken hair wasn't constantly attacked. I guess if this works out, the next step would be to try out something that surpresses the immune system (preferably locally, if such a thing exists) during those 10 days. I believe that's mentioned in the patent too as a possible tool.
Though hopefully it won't be needed

Aye, we just have to nail the right EGF-inhibitor in which case I think we'll see hairs on a cosmetic value level.

After that we can fine tune it further, in terms of plucking, peeling/sand papering method, timing etc. But as I think the EGF inhibitor is the key factor in the procedure (with dermabrasion, of course) we really need to experiment with it further.

I've come to the conclusion that the size of the area is very important as well, or has anyone had any success with a small area? As in smaller than 0.75 x 0.75 cm?

 

[jakeb]

Just did a pretty good TCA peel (20%) on my whole scalp. Didn't make any existing hair fall out and didn't sting much at all.

No clue whether I'll see much effect, but the peel itself was easy as pie. The topical ingredients are the big mystery.

 

[michael barry]

I am glad you are starting to experiment on your own and wish you all the luck possible.

I have some thoughts regarding your setup.

Instead of concentrated thistle tea, I would consider using silibinin, the active substance or even better, siliphos, which is a substance made to be ten times more bioavailable than silibinin. I would also use DMSO as a carrier for the silymarin (which ever you choose), especially considering it may have an activating effect on the wnt/beta-catenin pathway. Adding a DHT blocker may also be considered, in order to counter the DKK-1 gene (which in turn otherwise downregulates the wnt).

I would also make sure the area in question is large enough for the proper process to take effect.

What is your reasoning behind not applying minoxidil directly on the affected area?

The milk thistle Im using is called "Silymarin Milk Thistle" Extract. 1000 mg from Nature's Bounty bought from a Walgreens. Im just going to take it internally----probably twice a day at the correct time.

Im going to put the minoxidil -around-the area hoping it gets their via the blood vessels, etc. I dont want to put anything topical on during the experiment, and am trying to keep it as close to the Example 7 Experiment in the Follica patents. They simply abraded the human skin on the scid mouse and waited until they saw hair germs. They used no topicals. I dont want to risk any topical carrier interfereing with anything at first.

The area size only can be fairly small. I forget the exact amount of mm, but it doesnt have to be the size of a quarter or anthing that large.

 

[Orin]

I'm fairly certain one article I read (a variation of the regeneration example) stated that in order for new hair to be spontaneously generated (this was with abrasion only, it talked about the underlying, natural mechanism) the wound area had to be at the smallest 0.5 cm in diameter, and the hair often showed up in the center of the wound.

Unfortunately I don't have the source-article, so I guess you just have to take my word for it, though someone else might have the article saved (it was either mice or rabbits mentioned in the article).

Don't think they mentioned an upper limit (which then would suggest making smaller patches would be more beneficial than large sweeps) This was "all natural" in terms of just abrading, so I don't think that matters too much when you throw additives in that *should* vastly multiply the result.

Good to see someone is trying the internal route, so we have something to compare this with. I also think it's important to remember that should all this fail, there is still the lithium + wounding path to explore, which atleast in my case (and decidedly so with plucking before wounding) resulted in some regrowth.

All this is still very small-scale. Who knows what several passes over the scalp might yield after a few months to a year. I still withold that abrasion + lithium (and plucking before that) seem to show more promising regrowth than what I gather from photos of minoxidil-users; especially comparing the time-frames of each treatment.

So I guess that's some comfort, should all these natural components prove to inhibit WnT to the point of nullifying the intended effect.
Here's hoping.

 

[harold]

Also is an over expression of Wnt over normal that important I have read information and posted on here that it may not be of any help as far as inducing activated stem cells. This was posted in research conducted in the end of last year, so its quite recent and is still under study.

Yes it is important. Please see my reply to your earlier post for a longer answer and discussion of that research.
hh

 

[harold]

I would say size of wound is important. In the mice which had their full skin cut out it was. As to the ones who had their entire epidermis removed it cant be said for certain but I would say it helps.
hh

 

[FollicaLover]

Hi!,

sorry, maybe it's a "nonsense" question but, people who are testing yourselves the follica patent.. I think, if Follica is now just starting the tests with humans, side effects on humans are not yet known so, aren't you worried about that?

Anyone can answer please? Maybe I'd like to try myself also, and I wanted to know what is your opinion about the possible side effects in this tests.

Thank you.

 

[dresden]

what side effects can you have from a small wound? have you never got one or what?

btw, does this follica thing only work in areas of the skin were there used to be hair before?

 

[harold]

Hi!,

sorry, maybe it's a "nonsense" question but, people who are testing yourselves the follica patent.. I think, if Follica is now just starting the tests with humans, side effects on humans are not yet known so, aren't you worried about that?

Anyone can answer please? Maybe I'd like to try myself also, and I wanted to know what is your opinion about the possible side effects in this tests.

Thank you.

No. Not worried.
hh

 

[FollicaLover]

what side effects can you have from a small wound? have you never got one or what?

btw, does this follica thing only work in areas of the skin were there used to be hair before?

well, it's not just the small wound, you're applying products on it, that's why I worry. I repeat, maybe there's no reason to worry but.. I ask! ;-)

 

[patagonia]

Harold, Orin, Cal, Bugbug, et al.....


Im going to try a little experiment. You guys have me thinking positive, especially Orin's success and determination.



Here is what Im going to do:



1) Tonight, I'll depilate by plucking three little areas : above my left eyebrow, behind my ear, at the nape of one side of my neck (have a little more hair on the other side anyway).

2) I'll wait three days...........I think the patent says three days anyway to get the plucked hairs all in anagen.


3) I'll abrade with sandpaper, and wait four days.

4) After four days, Im going to us milk thistle extract until day ten. I'll also apply minoxidil around, but not directly on, the wounded area until day ten. I'll probably also take a pinch of lithium chloride (tastes like salt) until day ten

5) Im not going to wash the areas abraded until day ten.




In a month or so, I guess we will see if this series of actions results in anything.






There are a few guys at hairsite willing to give it a go in small areas. Cal is a sharp guy, and TAGOHL knows a great great deal about hair, and he has researched it for several years. Here is to hoping out of the six or eight (or nine or ten) of us who seem just interested enough to try it, that one of us has some eye-opening success.








BTW----On follica watiching the net'................they may be pissed, but since this discovery is really fifty damned years old, and there has been ancedotal reports on discussion forums for many years about guys injecting minoxidil and getting haris, guys in car wrecks getting lots of strange growth, a guy or two hit by lightening getting some growth, some guys getting severe sunburns and getting some growth (Docjo77 had mentioned this in one of his last posts), a picture of a guy now taking getfitinib getting growth on long bald scalp, and another dude taking getfitinib and getting hair all over his nose growing like whiskers.....................its natural people would be talking about this anyway. I dont think follica, however pissed they may be, has much to worry about though................so many people, the vast majority, will never find these rather hidden forums (its plain hard to find the "New Research, and Discoveries Forum" now), and would find it unthinkable to test-patch run anything themselves anyway. There probably wouldn't be 100 people at the most do this at home and get big hair growth who wouldn't go back and get follica's procedure done once it was available......I think they would be worried about nada.

Michael,
I wish you all the luck man!

New Research/Discoveries is by far my favorite forum... I understand a fraction of what you guys discuss in here but enjoy the learning process very much.

From what I know, a bunch of smart fellows come to the forums..learn and leave... rarely giving back or sharing their knowledge.. guys like Harold, Orin, Cal, Bug, Bryan, docj077, tino,
Old Baldy, (I´m missing a bunch a guys more).... spread the knowledge... that is awesome. :bravo:

Michael, remain curious and nosy...and then as you always do.... share with us.