Guys Let's All Get Rich - Are You Ready?

UberBaldaten

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
492
This is the best article I read on the effect of futures trading.

https://www.coindesk.com/threat-bitcoin-futures/

Their perspective is the same as mine - that if nothing else were to change, it would exert a downward pressure on the price at least short term, as (1) some people that were going to invest in BTC will put their money into futures instead, and (2) the new choice of shorting creates a negative pressure directly encouraging people to sell for fear that it will drop.

So overall the futures trading may likely slow the exponential increase slightly while it kicks in and builds momentum. The effect will vary with the amount of money going into the futures market. Until the futures market is fully developed, it won't have a full effect yet. They suggest that based on what's been seen in gold, a fully developed futures market will be 10x the size of the BTC market, which is around $300 billion. That means the futures market has a shitload of growth still to be expected, some of which will siphon off the growth of BTC. This is where the potential stabilization effect comes in as some of the money that was being pumped in will now go to futures instead. So that may be at least weeks or even months that this will exert its slowing effect over.

But in addition, which they touch on too, as awareness and media and exposure builds, more people will want BTC, so the demand from average people and new investors will still go up, which will continue to exert an upward pressure on the price.

I think the next few weeks will be a good time to stock up if you have any financial reserves left to do so. Even if it keeps climbing, it would only do so likely faster without this futures situation. So now's still as good a time as any.

As for the upper possible limit of a Bitcoin, I was just was reading this article, and I'm curious your thoughts @JeanLucBB :

At $47,400, those absurdities of the system will begin to become self evident, not just in relative asset-class value terms but also in total energy-cost terms to support the system. For example, as Zimmermann noted at the end of November,
  • As a thought, experiment 21 million Bitcoins at $50,000 each would mean a total market cap of $1 trillion
  • The total value of all the world’s coins and banknotes is estimated at $7.6 trillion*
  • At $1275 per ounce the total value of all the world’s gold is $7.7 trillion*
  • The total value of the world’s money ( Broad Money ) is est. at $90.4 trillion*
In short, once people start having to go without just for the planet to keep maintaining this most excessive and exuberant of luxury asset classes, the obvious absurdity of the creation will cause the bow to break. How that realisation comes about nobody can be sure of at this point. But the two most worrying paths come via an inflationary surge brought on by the hypothetical purchasing power imparted on the global system by all those freshly minted billionaires, or — more likely — via the liquidity constraints which will be imposed upon the rest of the system through having to accommodate bitcoin risk.

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/12...when-bitcoins-market-cap-overtakes-world-gdp/
This suggests there IS a hard upper limit to the possible value of BTC, and we're actually approaching it. To follow this math further, if each BTC reaches $350,000, the bitcoin market will be the same size as all the actual physical coins and banknotes of the world as well as the global gold supply.

Is this practical to expect? Will it level itself off naturally or will it just bust? If it levels off on its own and actually stabilizes at a high level, how will the world adapt? Does all other currency devalue to compensate?

I'm still hesitant to sell at any stage along the way, because those are the two possibilities. Either it will get there and the world will change, or it will get close and then bust. The anarchist in me says maybe the world changes. And if not, it will be a hell of a ride to the "bust" ...

One way or another the rapidly growing value of BTC will have to hit up against the realities of the current financial system. Looks like $50K is around where that reckoning begins. I don't think BTC will disappear in that fight. I think everything else will just have to bend to accommodate it.

And if it reaches $350K it will overtake gold completely. Can that be expected? What happens when an arbitrary digital currency software is worth more than gold?

At $4 million a bitcoin, it will overtake all the entire world's current money supply. Do we get there? What crashes? Bitcoin or the global economy?

Anything that slows the growth trajectory of BTC will likely be a good thing for it long term, as once it climbs above $50k the world will need to start adjusting to it. And if the world can't adjust as quickly as BTC rises, that's when you get a bubble that will at least temporarily burst.

sh*t's getting f*****g real. This is the serious phase now.


Implying it won't take over the fiat with new layers of transactions and implementation. Just lol, ride the tiger.

If you got money for transplant, cash it out and ayylmao to the bitter end. I'm euphoric every day I wake up either when it dips or grows. It's like Columbus setting sails to new continent. So many opportunities to be done on blockchain tech, even if its price crashes, those who learn it and invest in its offshoots will make it big time.

BIGLY !

Before creation comes destruction.
Many people don't see opportunities when something is crashing.
Many such cases.

Sad!
 

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
Implying it won't take over the fiat with new layers of transactions and implementation. Just lol, ride the tiger.

If you got money for transplant, cash it out and ayylmao to the bitter end. I'm euphoric every day I wake up either when it dips or grows. It's like Columbus setting sails to new continent. So many opportunities to be done on blockchain tech, even if its price crashes, those who learn it and invest in its offshoots will make it big time.

BIGLY !

Before creation comes destruction.
Many people don't see opportunities when something is crashing.
Many such cases.

Sad!

My plan is just to buy as much as I can averaged over the next few months which should limit my losses from short term fluctuations. Then hold 10 years and see what I have. According to the most conservative estimates we will be looking at 1 million + by then. Maybe even by 5 years from now we will be.

Unless someone figures out how to hack/destroy the currency which seems unlikely at this stage.

Now is unfortunately a terrible time to be buying but since no one can predict the curve of BTC and we know it's going to keep going up better to buy when you can than sitting on your *** waiting for dips that are not guaranteed.
 

UberBaldaten

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
492
My plan is just to buy as much as I can averaged over the next few months which should limit my losses from short term fluctuations. Then hold 10 years and see what I have. According to the most conservative estimates we will be looking at 1 million + by then. Maybe even by 5 years from now we will be.

Unless someone figures out how to hack/destroy the currency which seems unlikely at this stage.

Now is unfortunately a terrible time to be buying but since no one can predict the curve of BTC and we know it's going to keep going up better to buy when you can than sitting on your *** waiting for dips that are not guaranteed.
It is unfortunate if you think it won't go above 20k.

In worst case you make a few % profit.
In best case you make 100-1000% profit.
How is that unfortunate ?

It is like being a norwood 3 with upcoming career and telling yourself " It's unfortunate I didn't take finasteride when I was nw1 so I wouldn't have to have a transplant thus there is no point now since ill have to pay transplant"
Yes, it is. Even more unfortnate is if you were norwood 7 and had no upcoming funds nor tech to restore you to nw1.
 

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
It is unfortunate if you think it won't go above 20k.

In worst case you make a few % profit.
In best case you make 100-1000% profit.
How is that unfortunate ?

It is like being a norwood 3 with upcoming career and telling yourself " It's unfortunate I didn't take finasteride when I was nw1 so I wouldn't have to have a transplant thus there is no point now since ill have to pay transplant"
Yes, it is. Even more unfortnate is if you were norwood 7 and had no upcoming funds nor tech to restore you to nw1.

Wtf? Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. When did I say it won't go above 20k? It is unfortunate because I just missed a big bump and the days of easy 100x gains are possibly past.

If I thought it was pointless I wouldnt be investing. Did you miss that part?
 

UberBaldaten

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
492
Wtf? Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. When did I say it won't go above 20k? It is unfortunate because I just missed a big bump and the days of easy 100x gains are possibly past.

If I thought it was pointless I wouldnt be investing. Did you miss that part?

Actually I read it and comprehended it. I just added my thoughts on top of your post. :p
 

SteveTabernack

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
1,126
I was going to buy with some of my dads company money but it's still in the middle of a f*****g bank transfer. Money doesn't move fast enough to buy the f*****g dip.

Same, was really close to just saying f*** it and buying through credit card when price went below 14k. In hindsight I guess I should've done so, as I'm still waiting for money to enter my account :mad:

Also, f*****g Litecoin has been taking off. Hope you guys who were talking about it bought in.
 

JeanLucBB

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,815
My plan is just to buy as much as I can averaged over the next few months which should limit my losses from short term fluctuations. Then hold 10 years and see what I have. According to the most conservative estimates we will be looking at 1 million + by then. Maybe even by 5 years from now we will be.

Unless someone figures out how to hack/destroy the currency which seems unlikely at this stage.

Now is unfortunately a terrible time to be buying but since no one can predict the curve of BTC and we know it's going to keep going up better to buy when you can than sitting on your *** waiting for dips that are not guaranteed.

You say now is a terrible time to be buying and yet instantly after claim no one can predict the curve of bitcoin. Slight cognitive dissonance going on. Many have up to this point also.

You’re choosing sources which tend to have quite a strong bias one way or the other too, and seeking alpha has a strong history of failed predictions and innacurate information.

You are too trusting of FUD as well like most people, they have a bias towards embracing fear mongering over facts which is clear in your choice of favorite article about the futures markets.
 

JeanLucBB

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,815
Same, was really close to just saying f*** it and buying through credit card when price went below 14k. In hindsight I guess I should've done so, as I'm still waiting for money to enter my account :mad:

Also, f*****g Litecoin has been taking off. Hope you guys who were talking about it bought in.

f*** litecoin. If I had more of a traders mentality I would have bought as many of my mates did, but as a long term hold litecoin is at the bottom of the barrel in terms of potential interest and use case.

In saying that, still better than USD.
 

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
You say now is a terrible time to be buying and yet instantly after claim no one can predict the curve of bitcoin. Slight cognitive dissonance going on. Many have up to this point also.

You’re choosing sources which tend to have quite a strong bias one way or the other too, and seeking alpha has a strong history of failed predictions and innacurate information.

You are too trusting of FUD as well like most people, they have a bias towards embracing fear mongering over facts which is clear in your choice of favorite article about the futures markets.

Maybe, but I'm still buying. And the point is the "worse case scenario" (besides hacking/obsolescence) is still quite likely >$1 million per BTC in ten years.

My goal is to own 4-5 bitcoins and hold them long term. Whether I can get there or not will depend on how well I can juggle other obligations and how quickly the price rises. May not quite make it. Maybe 3.

It hurts when that would have cost me $700 back when I almost invested in them. I got talked out of it by a FUD article in large part I wish I never read or bought into.

Can't buy back time. Just placed another order now through my local dealer. Waiting for it to clear.

I think if you're going through traditional exchanges like you are it looks like you need to have the money you want to spend already "stocked" into your account at least a few days in advance, so you can buy at that moment when the price is right.
 
Last edited:

Saurabhaj

Senior Member
Reaction score
1,239
There is one speculator is who is speculating on prices of Waves coin.

As someone called this crypto market similar to crowdsourcing project (Not my words )
have a little attention to that Waves coin.
 
Last edited:

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
@JeanLucBB do you think your perspective of selling at 100k is perhaps too conservative?

The world wants a global currency. With the Internet and ecommerce it needs it really. Bitcoin is best positioned to be that global currency.

If it does fulfill this then there is no limitation in the price. It may eventually reach the million point and match current currency as we know it.

I can foresee a digital economy where Bitcoin is the standard. Other coins might represent 30% of the Bitcoin value total, as some people may prefer to deal in those niche currencies for various reasons.

Is there any condition you can imagine where it peaks at $100k but doesn't go further?
 

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
Futures has still not even really begun. According to the guardian there were only 12 traders active at launch and 22 today.

Just lol. Whatever pressure it may exert isn't nearly active yet.

Price keeps going up.
 

Exodus2011

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
5,624
Futures has still not even really begun. According to the guardian there were only 12 traders active at launch and 22 today.

Just lol. Whatever pressure it may exert isn't nearly active yet.

Price keeps going up.
Haha now youre using "just lol" . Dont lie did you pick it up from me? I got it from PSL lmao
 

Rudiger

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
6,504
Coinbase verification came through and ffs I was gonna buy some Friday and it boomed today.

I think this is a sign this game ain't for me.

Me at first hurdle:

hurdle-face.jpg
 

Afro_Vacancy

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
11,939
Realistically actually I think it will stabilize temporarily, as a lot of people who would have been putting money into BTC will now be putting their money into futures on BTC due to personal preference or financial restriction.

By spreading the potential ways money can go "into" BTC, there is less need to buy BTC to make money off BTC. This might take the heat off for the next few weeks a bit. Another futures option is opening in a week again. So whatever effect this one has (which so far has been pretty neutral or calming) the next will likely have as well.

We might get a few cool weeks. That would be nice for me. So maybe I'm just telling myself what I want to hear. I mean history suggests this sh*t just keeps going up no matter what so maybe nothing matters anyway and mac is right.
Maybe, but I'm still buying. And the point is the "worse case scenario" (besides hacking/obsolescence) is still quite likely >$1 million per BTC in ten years.

My goal is to own 4-5 bitcoins and hold them long term. Whether I can get there or not will depend on how well I can juggle other obligations and how quickly the price rises. May not quite make it. Maybe 3.

It hurts when that would have cost me $700 back when I almost invested in them. I got talked out of it by a FUD article in large part I wish I never read or bought into.

Can't buy back time. Just placed another order now through my local dealer. Waiting for it to clear.

I think if you're going through traditional exchanges like you are it looks like you need to have the money you want to spend already "stocked" into your account at least a few days in advance, so you can buy at that moment when the price is right.

1 million per Bitcoin? What could support a market cap of 21 trillion?
 

razzmatazz91

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
850
Anyone invested in sheseido?
nothing like BTC, ut could have almost doubled your money in a year. Much much more if invested a few years ago.

@JeanLucBB : any stock market/fundamental research you have on the Company?
BTW, dude when is that youtube channel coming?
 

Afro_Vacancy

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
11,939
Anyone invested in sheseido?
nothing like BTC, ut could have almost doubled your money in a year. Much much more if invested a few years ago.

@JeanLucBB : any stock market/fundamental research you have on the Company?
BTW, dude when is that youtube channel coming?

Realistically we should see more people on this forum investing on hair loss companies lol.

@That Guy what's up?
 

razzmatazz91

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
850
Realistically we should see more people on this forum investing on hair loss companies lol.

@That Guy what's up?
Well, Sheseido is not a hair loss company at all.
They're into manufacture and sale of cosmetics. Got a global outreach, but most of the biz is in Japan as far as I know.
So for all we know, the stock price rally may just be because of other products/ new markets/ great potential sales etc etc.

Of course I want to think it's because of their work on hair loss treatments. but a quick glance at the stock prices of Replicel (who would be making money if the treatment came out and was a success) suggests otherwise.
 

IdealForehead

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
3,025
1 million per Bitcoin? What could support a market cap of 21 trillion?

It depends on to what extend digital currencies overtake traditional ones. Newegg takes bitcoin. What if bitcoin is fast for everyone, and everyone starts taking it? Amazon, Alibaba, Walmart, etc? At least initially for online purchases.

The idea is that bitcoin could become a global currency that renders all the other currencies unnecessary.

Based again on this analysis:

At $47,400, those absurdities of the system will begin to become self evident, not just in relative asset-class value terms but also in total energy-cost terms to support the system. For example, as Zimmermann noted at the end of November,
  • As a thought, experiment 21 million Bitcoins at $50,000 each would mean a total market cap of $1 trillion
  • The total value of all the world’s coins and banknotes is estimated at $7.6 trillion*
  • At $1275 per ounce the total value of all the world’s gold is $7.7 trillion*
  • The total value of the world’s money ( Broad Money ) is est. at $90.4 trillion*
In short, once people start having to go without just for the planet to keep maintaining this most excessive and exuberant of luxury asset classes, the obvious absurdity of the creation will cause the bow to break. How that realisation comes about nobody can be sure of at this point. But the two most worrying paths come via an inflationary surge brought on by the hypothetical purchasing power imparted on the global system by all those freshly minted billionaires, or — more likely — via the liquidity constraints which will be imposed upon the rest of the system through having to accommodate bitcoin risk.

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/12...when-bitcoins-market-cap-overtakes-world-gdp/

$22 trillion for BTC would mean it has reached 24% of the current global monetary system. I think that's plausible.

I fully expect crypto currency to represent at least 10-20% of the global financial system within our lifetime. And bitcoin will likely remain the gold standard, accountable for at least 70% of the crypto marketplace (unless it can't keep up, eg. with speed of transfers).

This is just my wild speculation, but there is definitely an appeal to having a global universal currency. I think a lot of people would like that idea and it makes a degree of sense in a global marketplace. Currently everything is standardized to USD. One day that may change.
 
Top