Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

[Jonny Craig]

I serve as a decent case study in that regard, because I took not only saw palmetto, but a complex using a high concentration of the substance's most active ingredient (beta sitosterol) and other sterols, for 10 years.

It helped me get my hair back a first time, and while when my estrogen was very low, taking it made me feel basically menopausal, when I got my estrogen levels back up, my tolerance for it has increased and I might add returning to feeling basically no side effects at all save for the fact that it is quite an effective blood thinner.

You are required to take more beta sitosterol in ratio than propecia for the desired effect, you also must regulate your dosage based on how your endocrine system is performing and what you're eating (because eating more cholesterol will increase your androgen output).

A lot of good long term studies last 10 years, and even though I'm a single subject I am one person who has at least mentally, paid a lot of attention to what that supplement (and others) have done for me. And overall having taken finasteride and beta sitosterol, I can say unequivocally that the latter is far more safe for long term consumption and overall far safer in general in terms of side effects and safety for myself.

The conclusion I can form from this is basically that beta sitosterol is far safer and more forgiving than propecia is in the event that it does not work out well for you. I don't think there is any easy workaround for men who take propecia who respond poorly to it, whereas I for example know there are ways to tweak your biochemistry to ensure that beta sitosterol does not cause side effects which make it prohibitive to use.

Beta sitosterol can be tried without worry of doing serious harm in a short time, I was on propecia for almost four months and I felt like I was dying, I think I was on it two months more than I should have been.

So you're a believer in Saw Palmetto? What dosage do you use currently, and what do you advocate?

I've been using 3x 320mgs of Saw Palmetto (Doctor's Best, Euromed extract) daily since November 2020.

 

[Jonny Craig]

I would not draw blood while dermarolling/needling, creating scar tissue is probably not the best way to encourage hair growth.

feelsbadman.jpg

I made this grave mistake.

On that note.... best ways to reverse this damage, if at all possible?

Applying topical estrogen perhaps?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Well always estradiol, lol as it is a scar-healing agent but micro-needling heals scar tissue fairly easily and I have seen this happen several times as they get smaller and smaller and scab over and I was applying close to draw blood pressure but it always seemed to do an amazing job but I have a ton more to go so that is more important to me now really than the derma-roller hair growth, per se. But who knows, it might be like two steps forward and one step back in terms of finding the right pressure to induce autophagy in scar tissue. People are using them to treat acne and non-ice pick scars so I am curious about what the derma pen feels like cause I love the roller when my scalp itches, plus I do like maybe five minutes at most and someone said he spent 30 minutes per session.

 

[Norwoody]

Castor oil (PGE2) should help with healing too

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Eon

Someone mentioned this person's name which I recognize on another thread. I don't think they is active much now and then I saw the same word in an article on transgender archetypes:

Eonism​

Ellis studied what today are called transgender phenomena. Together with Magnus Hirschfeld, Havelock Ellis is considered a major figure in the history of sexology to establish a new category that was separate and distinct from homosexuality.[11] Aware of Hirschfeld's studies of transvestism, but disagreeing with his terminology, in 1913 Ellis proposed the term sexo-aesthetic inversion to describe the phenomenon. In 1920 he coined the term eonism, which he derived from the name of a historical figure, Chevalier d'Eon. Ellis explained:[12]

On the psychic side, as I view it, the Eonist is embodying, in an extreme degree, the aesthetic attitude of imitation of, and identification with, the admired object. It is normal for a man to identify himself with the woman he loves. The Eonist carries that identification too far, stimulated by a sensitive and feminine element in himself which is associated with a rather defective virile sexuality on what may be a neurotic basis.

Ellis found eonism to be "a remarkably common anomaly", and "next in frequency to homosexuality among sexual deviations", and categorized it as "among the transitional or intermediate forms of sexuality". As in the Freudian tradition, Ellis postulated that a "too close attachment to the mother" may encourage eonism, but also considered that it "probably invokes some defective endocrine balance"

Havelock Ellis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm. Sounds dead-on, sigh.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

feelsbadman.jpg

I made this grave mistake.

On that note.... best ways to reverse this damage, if at all possible?

Applying topical estrogen perhaps?

I had a small patch of my hair simply shed but it came back thankfully as if nothing happened, and now I've been super careful, you'd be surprised at how resilient hair and skin can be, just don't beat the sh*t out of either and treat it well as best you can.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

So you're a believer in Saw Palmetto? What dosage do you use currently, and what do you advocate?

I've been using 3x 320mgs of Saw Palmetto (Doctor's Best, Euromed extract) daily since November 2020.

What I take is not "saw palmetto", it is a specifically formulated highly concentrated preparation of not only what is in saw palmetto but other sterols as well, I've been using it for 10 years, it helped me grow my hair back from so sparse I could not grow it out, to long thick growth as it had been back in my teens. Yes, I did other things, but that was an integral part of my hair recovery process.

I can't guarantee saw palmetto will work, but I know what I took does and continues now with this second iteration of hairloss I'm now recovering from.

It's not a matter of belief, I've lived it, twice now.

This is the brand I've used.

https://newrootsherbal.com/product-pictures/221_NRH_Sterols_Sterolins_Cholesterol_60s_EN.jpg

 

[Jonny Craig]

I had a small patch of my hair simply shed but it came back thankfully as if nothing happened, and now I've been super careful, you'd be surprised at how resilient hair and skin can be, just don't beat the sh*t out of either and treat it well as best you can.

How long did it take for it to come back? Unfortunately I may not be so lucky but worst case I will fix it surgically.

 

[Jonny Craig]

What I take is not "saw palmetto", it is a specifically formulated highly concentrated preparation of not only what is in saw palmetto but other sterols as well, I've been using it for 10 years, it helped me grow my hair back from so sparse I could not grow it out, to long thick growth as it had been back in my teens. Yes, I did other things, but that was an integral part of my hair recovery process.

I can't guarantee saw palmetto will work, but I know what I took does and continues now with this second iteration of hairloss I'm now recovering from.

It's not a matter of belief, I've lived it, twice now.

This is the brand I've used.

https://newrootsherbal.com/product-pictures/221_NRH_Sterols_Sterolins_Cholesterol_60s_EN.jpg

Thanks for that.

From my research everything in that product will help to reduce 5-ar.
I also use plant sterols (including beta-sitosterol) from swanson however have recently run out. It should be completely synergistic with Saw Palmetto. Your product also contains flaxseed and other oils, which I also supplement with via Omega 3,6,9 supplement, also shown to reduce 5-ar.

There was a 2 year study comparing Saw Palmetto to Finasteride, and found that after 2 years it helped 38% VS 67% with Finasteride, and Saw Palmetto helped mostly on vertex. I think that's pretty darn good for a 'natural supplement'. The fact that there was an increase in hair count after 2 years alone is a huge win. I use Doctor's best brand, as they use an extract from a European company called euromed, they have tons of studies on their own extract showing it's worth.

I have no real doubts the above is enough for me to personally to help the progression.

I very unfortunately hurt my hair with very aggressive needling (it was very nice prior, and thicker). I am wondering if topical estrogen (Oestrogel) is the best bet to revive/help scar tissue.... @JaneyElizabeth Thoughts?

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

How long did it take for it to come back? Unfortunately I may not be so lucky but worst case I will fix it surgically.

Hair grows in 6 month cycles minimum, so it was about six to eight months before the bit that had shed started coming back.

It's fully back now, but that was winter 2019 when it happened.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Thanks for that.

From my research everything in that product will help to reduce 5-ar.
I also use plant sterols (including beta-sitosterol) from swanson however have recently run out. It should be completely synergistic with Saw Palmetto. Your product also contains flaxseed and other oils, which I also supplement with via Omega 3,6,9 supplement, also shown to reduce 5-ar.

There was a 2 year study comparing Saw Palmetto to Finasteride, and found that after 2 years it helped 38% VS 67% with Finasteride, and Saw Palmetto helped mostly on vertex. I think that's pretty darn good for a 'natural supplement'. The fact that there was an increase in hair count after 2 years alone is a huge win. I use Doctor's best brand, as they use an extract from a European company called euromed, they have tons of studies on their own extract showing it's worth.

I have no real doubts the above is enough for me to personally to help the progression.

I very unfortunately hurt my hair with very aggressive needling (it was very nice prior, and thicker). I am wondering if topical estrogen (Oestrogel) is the best bet to revive/help scar tissue.... @JaneyElizabeth Thoughts?

It's amazing for a natural supplement and I've been on finasteride, it was way too harsh for me, even though when my hormones were messed up pretty bad I could not tolerate higher dosages of beta sitosterol, the side effects weren't nearly as bad and they were much more immediate so I knew when to lay off.

Finasteride is a weird drug, you feel ok for a while and then one day you just wake up, your body aches, your skin is pale and lifeless, your wiener doesn't work and feels deflated and you wonder how the hell you got to that point.

Now I can take higher more physiologically useful dosages of beta sitosterol for the goal of restoring my hair. As long as I'm not taking tons and tons of it, I am getting good results and basically no sides at all unless I do take one capsule too many which happens once in a while.

Like I said, I've done the aggressive needling with my hair and my hair is still coming back like a mf boss, it was coming back "ok" when I was using finacea cream in a solution on my scalp, and the beta sitosterol, but once I incorporated the estriol it went up a whole new level, my hair has maybe a couple patches of lesser density that are thickening up, but I'm not even close to a 6 month mark using estriol, so already I know I'm going to get great results.

I would try estriol at any rate, even with the retinyl palmitate which I'm sensitive to, it's still doing way more good for my hair than harm, and that's saying something because retinoids and I don't always get along.

My hair has thickened up so much now I'm just going full steam ahead and growing it out, it doesn't look like sh*t anymore to the point where it looks as if I should just shave it off, it doesn't even look "thin" it just isn't as thick yet as it can be total, but nevertheless really good.

I'll post pics of my hair in august of this year as that was basically when I started using finacea on my scalp, I'm pretty sure I still have some pictures from last august and how depressing my scalp looked back then so you will see a before and after.

 

[Jonny Craig]

Oh, very nice.

Which Estriol cream do you use? and you apply directly on scalp for the most part? Is it bi-estrocare cream (with estradiol) or a pure estriol one?

Separate question but I am also slightly tempted to purchase pure Oestrogel, use it in smaller dosages say 1mg/day and see how that goes. It's also supposed to be great for scar tissue, so sort of a win-win for me.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Thanks for that.

From my research everything in that product will help to reduce 5-ar.
I also use plant sterols (including beta-sitosterol) from swanson however have recently run out. It should be completely synergistic with Saw Palmetto. Your product also contains flaxseed and other oils, which I also supplement with via Omega 3,6,9 supplement, also shown to reduce 5-ar.

There was a 2 year study comparing Saw Palmetto to Finasteride, and found that after 2 years it helped 38% VS 67% with Finasteride, and Saw Palmetto helped mostly on vertex. I think that's pretty darn good for a 'natural supplement'. The fact that there was an increase in hair count after 2 years alone is a huge win. I use Doctor's best brand, as they use an extract from a European company called euromed, they have tons of studies on their own extract showing it's worth.

I have no real doubts the above is enough for me to personally to help the progression.

I very unfortunately hurt my hair with very aggressive needling (it was very nice prior, and thicker). I am wondering if topical estrogen (Oestrogel) is the best bet to revive/help scar tissue.... @JaneyElizabeth Thoughts?

Estrogen is excellent for wound healing. You don't think a derma-pen or what I call no-pressure needling might not help? I will try to take a look at some of the micro-needling scar and wound healing stuff. It can often heal non-ice pic scars. Can you actually see little scars? It's weird because I realize that except for the front, I am mostly derma-rolling for scar reduction. I am using a 2.0 needle. I actually think the longer needles are less destructive. I don't come close to bleeding and it seems to hurt both more and less but mostly less. I also have been experimenting with rolling it with no pressure and that seems to do something and it might be done more frequently but yeah I will take a look.

Scar tissue is similar to fibrotic tissue and balding tissue and even to cellulite. It has an irregular collagen pattern underneath the skin that is weaker and which doesn't fit in right with surrounding skin but the body is sort of eh, good enough. But micro-needling basically tricks the body into healing it and that is probably similar to what happens to some balding tissue. Some of what makes balding interesting and exhausting is all of the different angles we have to look into and cover.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

It is "smoky mountain" brand "estro-life" cream. That's a very cringey brand for a female HRT product but oh well, I told my gf that's what I needed and she found some that she could get delivered as quickly as possible.

I'm no connoisseur of estrogen brands, try whichever one you think will work best and report back.

 

[Jonny Craig]

@JaneyElizabeth Could you speak on the differences between using OTC straight Estriol VS Estriol+Estradiol product like bi-estrocare for our purposes of gaining/keeping hair?

I believe you touched on this in another thread recently.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

My opinion continues to bounce about a bit. In my own case, I have substantial residual scarring from a rough transplant so I do need the estrogen on the scalp for wound healing and I also derma-roll which makes scar tissue decrease over time by scabbing smaller and smaller.

The benefits of estradiol on the scalp and face appear to outweigh the negatives which are that the tube theoretically will release five times more estrogen into the bloodstream via the scrotum. So, it's sort of an opportunity cost that didn't exist until last year when they first tested estradiol down there. Otherwise, it very well has localized effects on the scalp and even if it doesn't then we are only back to the opportunity cost aspect. It is also psychological beneficial to apply estradiol to the scalp everyday and to the testicles for MtF's, because it makes a person feel more control over the hair loss and often it's the loss of control that is so difficult to acknowledge. In my opinion, this is why MtF's switch meds all of the time, which we are known to do. It's the loss of control over breast size and the XY relentless urge to tinker. Look at the stacks of some of us and guys will tell you exactly what each seven are supposed to do. No just using it like FtM's do with T.

I write about this often because it interests me so much so you can probably find other articles that I have written mostly here.

 

[Jonny Craig]

My opinion continues to bounce about a bit. In my own case, I have substantial residual scarring from a rough transplant so I do need the estrogen on the scalp for wound healing and I also derma-roll which makes scar tissue decrease over time by scabbing smaller and smaller.

The benefits of estradiol on the scalp and face appear to outweigh the negatives which are that the tube theoretically will release five times more estrogen into the bloodstream via the scrotum. So, it's sort of an opportunity cost that didn't exist until last year when they first tested estradiol down there. Otherwise, it very well has localized effects on the scalp and even if it doesn't then we are only back to the opportunity cost aspect. It is also psychological beneficial to apply estradiol to the scalp everyday and to the testicles for MtF's, because it makes a person feel more control over the hair loss and often it's the loss of control that is so difficult to acknowledge. In my opinion, this is why MtF's switch meds all of the time, which we are known to do. It's the loss of control over breast size and the XY relentless urge to tinker. Look at the stacks of some of us and guys will tell you exactly what each seven are supposed to do. No just using it like FtM's do with T.

I write about this often because it interests me so much so you can probably find other articles that I have written mostly here.

Technically... Oestrogel would be better and preferable over both OTC Estriol/Estriol+Estradiol, correct? In terms of scalp wound healing (scarring) and hair growth? I see it's only 24 bucks on that site you mentioned and it looks awfully tempting.

Did a doctor/derm tell you about the estrogen for wound healing/scarring or something you discovered online? (I know there are studies which show this, just curious).

And wow so there was a study that shows estradiol put on scrotum has 5x the bio availability than when placed elsewhere?

@JaneyElizabeth do you also use natural progesterone? (sorry, getting a bit off-topic here, although this should be good for hair as well).

There is a HRT Doctor who recommends Progesterone used rectally, to tank T.., and he says just to use that to keep T low, and use E, no need for AAs.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Technically... Oestrogel would be better and preferable over both OTC Estriol/Estriol+Estradiol, correct? In terms of scalp wound healing (scarring) and hair growth? I see it's only 24 bucks on that site you mentioned and it looks awfully tempting.

Did a doctor/derm tell you about the estrogen for wound healing/scarring or something you discovered online? (I know there are studies which show this, just curious).

And wow so there was a study that shows estradiol put on scrotum has 5x the bio availability than when placed elsewhere?

@JaneyElizabeth do you also use natural progesterone? (sorry, getting a bit off-topic here, although this should be good for hair as well).

There is a HRT Doctor who recommends Progesterone used rectally, to tank T.., and he says just to use that to keep T low, and use E, no need for AAs.

Are you an MtF or a cis-guy? I can't tell by your screen name, it only matters in terms of my having more leeway with MtF's since they actually want feminization.

So you can compare, I pay $25 per tube of Estrogel from my vendor, which is not cheap but they take credit cards. It has much more estrogen than the Life Flo estradiol but I would go ahead and get either Biestro or Estradiol because it will arrive in a couple of days and then you can order Estrogel from my vendor if you want. Once a person decides to do this, they should start as quickly as possibly because you get to excited to wait.

The only difference that I know of is the carriers. Biestro is a lotion/cream and Estrogel is a gel with an alcohol base. I think that Estrogel spreads a little better. I think that I read years ago that some hair transplant surgeons were prescribing Estrogel to the patient right after surgery and for maybe two more weeks to help wound healing and to promote the acceptance of the new tissue. It made sense to me. The changes in skin and elasticity lead me to belive that skin improves greatly in general so this helps wound healing and even former scars. Cross-linked soles of mine have just improved on their own and my skin is like it was as a child.

That doctor's name is Dr. Will Powers, M.D. and he is an old nemesis of mine since he bases a lot of his "facts" on reasonable conjecture but those ideas don't always work out. I opt not to use rectal progesterone but to take a larger orally active dose at 300mg but only ten days a month. This was what @bridgeburn took for progesterone and the same number of days and dosage. My feeling is estradiol does most of the work in general in HRT but the thought promoted by Powers which I highly doubt is that using systemically significant progesterone "finishes" breast growth and tissue. Since MtF's are just as obsessed with breasts as the guys on here are with hair, Powers has lots of fangirls that are not even his patients. His video is pretty charming and give a pretty good overview.

 

[Jonny Craig]

"old nemesis of mine" hahaha!

Does using Oestrogel / Biestro make you feel the same way? or is using pure E a different feeling?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

"old nemesis of mine" hahaha!

Does using Oestrogel / Biestro make you feel the same way? or is using pure E a different feeling?

He is one of my nemeses. Like four different times I have posted replies on his site and he always replies to my comment and so I smack him around gently for a while--guys like that!--then politely excuse myself. FtM's are my nemeses.

I could write paeans to estradiol and how it makes you feel but you have to get to adult female targets so it's not just a particular med. You feel less used up and more ready to enjoy life productively and in relationships. It can be subtle. It's unleashed a new level of creativity in me as I go about creating a new person and trying to do it better than anyone else, literally. I have worked (I enjoy it) 18 months on learning to select and apply makeup and I have much more dexterity now. Men have clumsy fingers. You will only engage in sexual activities to enjoy it and not compulsively as though in a rut.

"Last thing I remember, I was running for the door, I had to find the passage back to the place I was before. Relaxed said the nightman, we are programmed to receive. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.....

Few enter the chambers of our Goddess and even fewer ever leave.