Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

[JaneyElizabeth]

How long have you been on 5mg of finasteride daily for? and do you think its done anything noticeable compared to 1.25mg?

That's a good question since I used to pay out of pocket and buy off-shore so I always used proscar which has five times as much per tab in terms of mg. They are difficult to score so I just bit them strategically four or five times per pill so maybe 1.25mg until I told my doctor that I was high-risk for prostate cancer. Eh, it got it covered and baldness and prostate cancer do coincide. That got me bumped to 5mg. Then I ended up somewhere that had a fixed med list without finasteride so they put me on dutasteride and I ended up having valid Rx's for both, so .5mg of dutasteride and 5mg of finastride since June of 2015, except I took the last year off from finasteride and only used dutasteride since they seemed duplicative. Since they both are covered and many guys allege that they worked differently, albeit usually in a negative way about one or the other, I figured it would more or less amount to multiple dosing of reductase inhibitors which marginally seems to improve outcomes. Facially, I am also still sensitive to DHT and that was a minor offshoot of the oral min question you asked. With the increased beard rate in terms of growth, I was getting a touch of dermatitis around my nose a couple of times so that's DHT, just looking for any chance to wreak havoc. Even a small increase in viability of my facial follicles brought it back a tiny bit so that's another reason but it's overkill for most.

My answer to the more direct question is I don't know since I never had regrowth from any medication until I started HRT, then microneedling and then adding oral min where it became clear that regrowth was occurring. Even when I used to think my hair was looking better at times, hair goes through seasonal cycles so even noticing and pointing out growth in a male context is very, very hard because it is really rare in terms of achieving cosmetically significant regrowth. Maintenance is cosmetically significant itself and that's way start young, start hard and still too it if lifelong hair is a goal. A lot of guys write, "I just need my hair until I get married or till I am 35" but that never pans out. It sucks just as bad at any age and once's you know you are a carrier so to speak, male pattern baldness is out there lurking. Peace of mind via finasteride and duta are work every penny if maintenance is achieved.

Thanks for your interest and interesting posts,
Janey

 

[kckcjl94]

just worked my way through this thread. doesn't seem like anybody is really posting updates or trying these methods anymore? anyway, a quick history.

hairline matured in early 20s up a little, still rounded down corners, an actual matured hairline. stayed that way until early 30s when i went on TRT. found out i had a pituitary tumor with testosterone levels of 80 and e2 of 40, also no hgh. my hair was great, full healthy, and still rounded down corners. over 6-7 years of trt, it chipped my temples out a bit but hairline was still straight. i did feel it wasn't as thick on top, so some androgenic loss was taking place. then 2 and half years ago started doing water fasting 5 days a week and lost about 200 pounds, this destroyed my hair. it was falling out all over, even the donor zone miniaturized. hair become brittle and thin, the hair i still have i can snap easily. i was losing 1000 hairs every shower until recently. derm said had a chronic massive telogen effluvium but that it prob also pushed along my genetic thinning. now my temples are curving backwards more into the triangle shape. there are still small maybe 1mm hairs left, and a few scattered terminal ones, leaving a connect the dots-ish hairline.

tried 1mg of finasteride and it was the worst experience of my life, unbelievably bad every side effect and more (and no i wasn't aware of possible sides before i took it) started oral minoxidil and hydrocortisone to help the adrenal fatigue and hair. finally a few months ago the insane shedding stopped. i prob shed less now than i did when my hair was great. oral minoxidil is helping the sides/back recover some, and ive seen some regrowth on top but temples/hairline are still shot. i stopped trt back in october. strangely even with a tumor my t is now 220-320 range and e is down to mid teens, dht 22. no one knows why, maybe the weight loss or the fasting or carnivore diet. all my labs are suddenly great after a lifetime of things being off.

anyway, my goal is to return to my pre-trt state. so T less than 100, and E elevated but not dominate. the hope is that since i still have some hair in the area and diffuse thinning because the density on the top just hasn't come back, that i'll be able to recover with this. the temples are supposedly more aromatase. i have my doubts, but it's worth a try. ive been going back and forth over my options and which method to try. i stopped microneedling since i had a bottle of RU sitting here figured i'd give it a shot.

option 1 - using spironolactone to push my t back down to 100 or less, getting it around 60ish where i'll still have my libido be fine like before, and then dht would be going from 22 to around 6. hoping that will provide the relief i need. with this avenue tho without the body fat, i might end up needing to take estrogen anyway to get it back up. so i'd probably just end up taking both. with my low T i figure a lower spironolactone dosage should do, and i plan to start very low and build up to 50mg twice a day to avoid a shed.

option 2 would be e monotherapy, i know @JaneyElizabeth prefers it, but if at some point i did recover and stopped the estrogen i'd still need the spironolactone to maintain. with this i was thinking of doing the gel on the temples, starting with 1mg pill a day to test the waters, and then jumping up to 2mg twice a day to avoid the breast growth and jumpstart the hair regrowth.

option 3 - use the spironolactone to crush the t, then use estrogen every other day. the idea behind this is just to keep from feminizing but also keep a steady pulse of E coming in to up the levels and turn the hair growth back on, without letting the E overpower the T.

option 4 - open to suggestions of course which is why i'm here;0

i'm fine with facial feminization and risking gyno, not fine with breast growth. i feel like with my past history, current hair level, oral minoxidil and having some hair in the area i should have a good chance of recovering but who knows. i just added red light therapy, will start prp this week will prob also add bimatoprost also.

thanks for any input

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

just worked my way through this thread. doesn't seem like anybody is really posting updates or trying these methods anymore? anyway, a quick history.

hairline matured in early 20s up a little, still rounded down corners, an actual matured hairline. stayed that way until early 30s when i went on TRT. found out i had a pituitary tumor with testosterone levels of 80 and e2 of 40, also no hgh. my hair was great, full healthy, and still rounded down corners. over 6-7 years of trt, it chipped my temples out a bit but hairline was still straight. i did feel it wasn't as thick on top, so some androgenic loss was taking place. then 2 and half years ago started doing water fasting 5 days a week and lost about 200 pounds, this destroyed my hair. it was falling out all over, even the donor zone miniaturized. hair become brittle and thin, the hair i still have i can snap easily. i was losing 1000 hairs every shower until recently. derm said had a chronic massive telogen effluvium but that it prob also pushed along my genetic thinning. now my temples are curving backwards more into the triangle shape. there are still small maybe 1mm hairs left, and a few scattered terminal ones, leaving a connect the dots-ish hairline.

tried 1mg of finasteride and it was the worst experience of my life, unbelievably bad every side effect and more (and no i wasn't aware of possible sides before i took it) started oral minoxidil and hydrocortisone to help the adrenal fatigue and hair. finally a few months ago the insane shedding stopped. i prob shed less now than i did when my hair was great. oral minoxidil is helping the sides/back recover some, and ive seen some regrowth on top but temples/hairline are still shot. i stopped trt back in october. strangely even with a tumor my t is now 220-320 range and e is down to mid teens, dht 22. no one knows why, maybe the weight loss or the fasting or carnivore diet. all my labs are suddenly great after a lifetime of things being off.

anyway, my goal is to return to my pre-trt state. so T less than 100, and E elevated but not dominate. the hope is that since i still have some hair in the area and diffuse thinning because the density on the top just hasn't come back, that i'll be able to recover with this. the temples are supposedly more aromatase. i have my doubts, but it's worth a try. ive been going back and forth over my options and which method to try. i stopped microneedling since i had a bottle of RU sitting here figured i'd give it a shot.

option 1 - using spironolactone to push my t back down to 100 or less, getting it around 60ish where i'll still have my libido be fine like before, and then dht would be going from 22 to around 6. hoping that will provide the relief i need. with this avenue tho without the body fat, i might end up needing to take estrogen anyway to get it back up. so i'd probably just end up taking both. with my low T i figure a lower spironolactone dosage should do, and i plan to start very low and build up to 50mg twice a day to avoid a shed.

option 2 would be e monotherapy, i know @JaneyElizabeth prefers it, but if at some point i did recover and stopped the estrogen i'd still need the spironolactone to maintain. with this i was thinking of doing the gel on the temples, starting with 1mg pill a day to test the waters, and then jumping up to 2mg twice a day to avoid the breast growth and jumpstart the hair regrowth.

option 3 - use the spironolactone to crush the t, then use estrogen every other day. the idea behind this is just to keep from feminizing but also keep a steady pulse of E coming in to up the levels and turn the hair growth back on, without letting the E overpower the T.

option 4 - open to suggestions of course which is why i'm here;0

i'm fine with facial feminization and risking gyno, not fine with breast growth. i feel like with my past history, current hair level, oral minoxidil and having some hair in the area i should have a good chance of recovering but who knows. i just added red light therapy, will start prp this week will prob also add bimatoprost also.

thanks for any input

I am here and I check my PM's and my little bell alerts frequently and while there's no ownership on HairLossTalk.com, this is my thread and I maintain it and I post hair improvement pics frequently to prove that I know at least somewhat, whereof I speak, and also thoughts on the psychology of using steroidal hormones in opposition to our gender or gender preferences and pretty much anything related to hormonal therapy and experimental therapies shown to be at least as effective as the Big 3, which is pretty much the null set but I am open to those and oral minoxidil is sort of an in between sort of therapy. It probably has hormonal effects and it is experimental in the sense that very few people knew about it, or how to get it, until recently. Microneedling is similar. Anything I can do to help, I will try to connect the dots. You might be one of the very, very few who actually has Telogen Effluvium, which is sort of an unfunny observation but many people come on here opening with the observation that their doctor or "everybody" says that their hair loss is only stress related since father and grandfathers aren't bald, and hence it has to be Telogen Effluvium, and as most of us know who frequent this site, those situations rarely turn out well unless the person seeks full-blown hair loss treatment, and not just biotin, better sleep and more exercise.

I think you might be over-complicating things but either on here or via PM, if you have pics, that helps greatly because after 30 plus years of looking at hair lines, I do see patterns that might not be provable but yes, recognizable and often these are referred to as maturing hair lines, again, if the person is lucky. Otherwise, soon the crown goes and the front and crown meet in the middle and things are more or less hopeless in a male context at that point. Welcome and I hope you will post and ask questions about anything hair related. I focus on male and less so, female style and grooming, also, beard growth and removal and those effects and peripheral hair management below the neck which can be an issue with TRT or HRT if oral minoxidil is used. I know most of the in's and out's of MtF hormonal therapy including the parameters of breast growth limitation or enhancement, which is limited but we all want to give it our best shot in accordance with the best hair possible in conjunction thereto. I am a lawyer not a doctor but we use Latin a lot and I do have a strong background in stats and methodology which helps a lot in evaluating treatments.

Best,

Janey

 

[kckcjl94]

I am here and I check my PM's and my little bell alerts frequently and while there's no ownership on HairLossTalk.com, this is my thread and I maintain it and I post hair improvement pics frequently to prove that I know at least somewhat, whereof I speak, and also thoughts on the psychology of using steroidal hormones in opposition to our gender or gender preferences and pretty much anything related to hormonal therapy and experimental therapies shown to be at least as effective as the Big 3, which is pretty much the null set but I am open to those and oral minoxidil is sort of an in between sort of therapy. It probably has hormonal effects and it is experimental in the sense that very few people knew about it, or how to get it, until recently. Microneedling is similar. Anything I can do to help, I will try to connect the dots. You might be one of the very, very few who actually has Telogen Effluvium, which is sort of an unfunny observation but many people come on here opening with the observation that their doctor or "everybody" says that their hair loss is only stress related since father and grandfathers aren't bald, and hence it has to be Telogen Effluvium, and as most of us know who frequent this site, those situations rarely turn out well unless the person seeks full-blown hair loss treatment, and not just biotin, better sleep and more exercise.

I think you might be over-complicating things but either on here or via PM, if you have pics, that helps greatly because after 30 plus years of looking at hair lines, I do see patterns that might not be provable but yes, recognizable and often these are referred to as maturing hair lines, again, if the person is lucky. Otherwise, soon the crown goes and the front and crown meet in the middle and things are more or less hopeless in a male context at that point. Welcome and I hope you will post and ask questions about anything hair related. I focus on male and less so, female style and grooming, also, beard growth and removal and those effects and peripheral hair management below the neck which can be an issue with TRT or HRT if oral minoxidil is used. I know most of the in's and out's of MtF hormonal therapy including the parameters of breast growth limitation or enhancement, which is limited but we all want to give it our best shot in accordance with the best hair possible in conjunction thereto. I am a lawyer not a doctor but we use Latin a lot and I do have a strong background in stats and methodology which helps a lot in evaluating treatments.

Best,

Janey

yeh we talked on reddit chat about a week ago, actually sent you a msg there yesterday. i requested a name change here soon as the mods approve it so they match. oh i agree 100% on the Telogen Effluvium, i see guys with textbook male pattern baldness and they think it's Telogen Effluvium or stress. i went from having full healthy hair to peeling it off my hands in the shower the next day, falling in my food in my fridge, it was everywhere. it probably would have been fine, but i kept going with fasting and weight loss. my derm, GP, and endo all said Telogen Effluvium. i could literally just grab it in the back and just lightly pull and get 8-0 hairs over and over, it never stopped. but i do think there is mild Androgenetic Alopecia that i didn't have until the TRT. my hair was not just dense but full in diameter. i'll get some pics together. changing oral minoxidil brands made me go through another shed that wrecked all my progress, even my beard has thinned out 30-40% i def think the temples have went from a combination of the trt/fasting.

 

[Gergely]

just worked my way through this thread. doesn't seem like anybody is really posting updates or trying these methods anymore? anyway, a quick history.

I found that with HRT temples might take a hell of a long time to recover if ever. So i have nothing new to report, i'm still contemplating dermarolling and minoxidil. If i had the money right now i'd go for a type 3 forehead reconstruction with hairline lowering instead.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I found that with HRT temples might take a hell of a long time to recover if ever. So i have nothing new to report, i'm still contemplating dermarolling and minoxidil. If i had the money right now i'd go for a type 3 forehead reconstruction with hairline lowering instead.

Is that procedure feminizing or just to make the hair look lower? I seem to be having very good results on the hair line and increasingly on the temples, although my right temple is lagging the left. I hate not being parallel but I think it's going to happen for me in the temples. The hair in front of the ears has come in wonderfully and I barely realized how much I had lost just back of the sideburns.

Good to see you.

 

[kckcjl94]

@JaneyElizabeth alright tried to upload them in order and label them accordingly. as you can see as a kid i had the wolfman hairline, but i actually have a very large c section head, even fitted 8 caps leave a red ring and give me a headache. pre-trt you can see my temples are still rounded down, my hairline was actually lower in high school but it moved up a bit around 20-21 and stayed there. the red shirt pic is couple years on trt, you can see the temple has chipped out a bit, not a big deal. the white shirt i think you can obviously see my hair was healthy, still on trt. started water fasting 5 days a week, then the next 2 pics are what i would lose every shower this went on for 2 years, maybe a little more. there's my hair and temples after all that damage which is the same all over my head. and the last 3 are now. you can see when i hold it out all those thin wispy hairs, that was all thick heavy and you couldn't even see through it, its that way all over. and of course the last one is of my left worse temple, i put a small blue line to show where the hairline was originally. there are some smaller dark hairs the camera didnt pick up, but theyve been there for years and don't change. the last pic is an above shot that was from a few months after i started shedding like crazy.

 

[Gergely]

Is that procedure feminizing or just to make the hair look lower? I seem to be having very good results on the hair line and increasingly on the temples, although my right temple is lagging the left. I hate not being parallel but I think it's going to happen for me in the temples. The hair in front of the ears has come in wonderfully and I barely realized how much I had lost just back of the sideburns.

Good to see you.

It is. btw i thought you alse used minoxidil multiple times

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It is. btw i thought you alse used minoxidil multiple times

I do. I use it with microneedling, and maybe every other day topically and then daily with oral min @ 6.25mg twice daily. Are you using it?

 

[Gergely]

I do. I use it with microneedling, and maybe every other day topically and then daily with oral min @ 6.25mg twice daily. Are you using it?

I don't, i was hoping to avoid min

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

@JaneyElizabeth alright tried to upload them in order and label them accordingly. as you can see as a kid i had the wolfman hairline, but i actually have a very large c section head, even fitted 8 caps leave a red ring and give me a headache. pre-trt you can see my temples are still rounded down, my hairline was actually lower in high school but it moved up a bit around 20-21 and stayed there. the red shirt pic is couple years on trt, you can see the temple has chipped out a bit, not a big deal. the white shirt i think you can obviously see my hair was healthy, still on trt. started water fasting 5 days a week, then the next 2 pics are what i would lose every shower this went on for 2 years, maybe a little more. there's my hair and temples after all that damage which is the same all over my head. and the last 3 are now. you can see when i hold it out all those thin wispy hairs, that was all thick heavy and you couldn't even see through it, its that way all over. and of course the last one is of my left worse temple, i put a small blue line to show where the hairline was originally. there are some smaller dark hairs the camera didnt pick up, but theyve been there for years and don't change. the last pic is an above shot that was from a few months after i started shedding like crazy.

None of these look bad at all. Are you still developing a protocol of hair meds/HRT meds?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

New Pics:

 

[Norwoody]

It looks improved, you can tell by the waviness as well as "edges" on the hairline.

 

[StayPositive]

No more nudity than all of the body building pics. I's just as XY's as they is. Dumb ***.

you re still XY. You will be a XY until your last day on earth and there is nothing you can do about that.

You will never have a sweet, delicious and mind blowing pussy between your legs

 

[kckcjl94]

None of these look bad at all. Are you still developing a protocol of hair meds/HRT m

yeh it's not as bad as some, but i'm still miserable everytime i look at my hairline in the mirror. this second minoxidil shed was got me feeling particularly hopeless as it wiped out all my progress. i'm even more worried about where the hairline is headed. anyway, yes i'm still developing a protocol. ive been going back and forth about it over the last few days, and i think i'm going to go with 1mg of estrogen val twice a day. i'll do blood work 3-4 weeks in to make sure my e2 is still below my T, basically trying to emulate my pre-trt state when my hair was good and avoid the feminization. i'll do that along with microneedling, red light, bimatoprost (eventually if needed for any vellus), and prp. since prp varies so wildly between clinics i plan to up my hgh dose to improve my growth factors and log as i go along trying to find a more effective protocol based on rpm and spins. if that doesn't get me where i want, i'll add in estrogel to the temples to get my E pushed over my T even more and give that a chance. all my degrees are in IT networking and troubleshooting is what i do, i'll keep going forever until i find a solution. getting my hair back is my singular focus.

so please give me your thoughts on the estrogen protocol. also you should have gotten your package today, it finally says delivered?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

yeh it's not as bad as some, but i'm still miserable everytime i look at my hairline in the mirror. this second minoxidil shed was got me feeling particularly hopeless as it wiped out all my progress. i'm even more worried about where the hairline is headed. anyway, yes i'm still developing a protocol. ive been going back and forth about it over the last few days, and i think i'm going to go with 1mg of estrogen val twice a day. i'll do blood work 3-4 weeks in to make sure my e2 is still below my T, basically trying to emulate my pre-trt state when my hair was good and avoid the feminization. i'll do that along with microneedling, red light, bimatoprost (eventually if needed for any vellus), and prp. since prp varies so wildly between clinics i plan to up my hgh dose to improve my growth factors and log as i go along trying to find a more effective protocol based on rpm and spins. if that doesn't get me where i want, i'll add in estrogel to the temples to get my E pushed over my T even more and give that a chance. all my degrees are in IT networking and troubleshooting is what i do, i'll keep going forever until i find a solution. getting my hair back is my singular focus.

so please give me your thoughts on the estrogen protocol. also you should have gotten your package today, it finally says delivered?

I am about to run off for my laser beard removal session. That all sounds great and 2mg is perfect for maximizing breast growth.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It looks improved, you can tell by the waviness as well as "edges" on the hairline.

Lighting still makes a difference but it's the longest of my lifetime and it has basically grown back crown forward so the crown's been filled in for months. Maybe the microneedling and oral min are making the difference but I see hundreds and hundreds of little white hairs coming in in the temples. I would love to put that canard to rest.

 

[kckcjl94]

I am about to run off for my laser beard removal session. That all sounds great and 2mg is perfect for maximizing breast growth.

well i don't want breast growth, so that's not good. i'll just have get bloods frequently to make sure my T is suppressed but still above E i suppose

 

[Norwoody]

My assumption is that estrogen and oral minoxidil, or any form of min really, are highly synergistic. As evident in AntyDHTor. The estrogen allows for an optimal environment for hair to grow, likely allowing more minoxidial sulfate into the intrafollicular unit, causing exponential growth. I am uncertain whether minoxidil creates an environment for deeper penetration of estrogen into the scalp, but I think it's also possible. In any event, it seems that estrogen users are almost always positive responders to minoxidil, whereas it's definitely not always the case for those on male treatments.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

well i don't want breast growth, so that's not good. i'll just have get bloods frequently to make sure my T is suppressed but still above E i suppose

Then you do the opposite and start on say 8mg sublingual. No guarantees but high dose at the start is likely to impede and possible halt forever breast development. But they're so fun!