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[pegasus2]

I noticed your curis thread is quiet these days have you found anything else interesting with shh agonosts lately? Like something cheap that has a good effect lol

No. I did mix SAG in my second solution in a row today, so I'll be taking it daily for 2-3 weeks.

Edit: Maybe norepinephrine could be a cheap and safer alternative to SAG.

Or these glucocorticoids combined with an MR antagonist to combat their negative hair growth effects.

 

[Equal Rights]

No. I did mix SAG in my second solution in a row today, so I'll be taking it daily for 2-3 weeks.

Edit: Maybe norepinephrine could be a cheap and safer alternative to SAG.

Or these glucocorticoids combined with an MR antagonist to combat their negative hair growth effects.

Has your progress slowed? What gives you the confidence to push the frequency of SAG up so much, I remember in the dedicated threat you started with once every couple of weeks. Do you monitor any tumor developments professionally or taking any preventative measures? Ik in OP for SAG shh antagonists easily reversed any unwanted developments while maintaining the new HF, still gotta catch those and slow the process if possible.

 

[Derelict]

f*** me pegasus, your regimen is insane lol but we have to do what we have to do for our hair i guess, what has your recovery been like?

 

[pegasus2]

Has your progress slowed? What gives you the confidence to push the frequency of SAG up so much, I remember in the dedicated threat you started with once every couple of weeks. Do you monitor any tumor developments professionally or taking any preventative measures? Ik in OP for SAG shh antagonists easily reversed any unwanted developments while maintaining the new HF, still gotta catch those and slow the process if possible.

I took a month off and things stalled out somewhat. I keep an eye on my scalp, but I don't have anything yet. Maybe I'm getting too comfortable with it since nothing has happened to me yet.

 

[Dalcounter]

Did u use derminator2 or a6/a7 dr pen?how u sanitize ur device? Iso alchool 70% before after on the cadriges is ok?

 

[Equal Rights]

If you're going to go all out and reverse the cellular damage significantly then the side effects are only temporary and worth it. If you're not then the small amount of cosmetic benefit from OM probably isn't worth it.

Hey was scrolling through the threat again and found your reply to OM. It causes cellular damage? I thought it the sides are primarily decreased collagen production that recovers after discontinuation and water retention that goes away after stopping as well. Is there something I am missing? might have to reconsider OM now. What would be a way to reverse whatever the cellular damage is?

 

[pegasus2]

I don't want to get into posting pictures constantly, but I'll show where I am after taking a month off treatment. I think I lost some of the new hairs that were just starting to come out in a couple places, but for the most part the new hairs held on and continued to grow. Now that I'm back to needling again and using more SAG it should continue to improve from here. I'm pretty well convinced that for my scalp 1.5mm for 30 minutes is the right needling protocol. The biggest question mark for me is the proper dosage of SAG. I'm still not sure exactly how much or how often I should be using it for best results. I noticed the most new hairs almost two months after I switched from 1mm to 1.5mm, and I also used a single dose of SAG at 40mg followed by daily at ~.05% for ten days. Ignore the skin flakes, I'm peeling from my last needling session.

 

[Equal Rights]

I don't want to get into posting pictures constantly, but I'll show where I am after taking a month off treatment. I think I lost some of the new hairs that were just starting to come out in a couple places, but for the most part the new hairs held on and continued to grow. Now that I'm back to needling again and using more SAG it should continue to improve from here. I'm pretty well convinced that for my scalp 1.5mm for 30 minutes is the right needling protocol. The biggest question mark for me is the proper dosage of SAG. I'm still not sure exactly how much or how often I should be using it for best results. I noticed the most new hairs almost two months after I switched from 1mm to 1.5mm, and I also used a single dose of SAG at 40mg followed by daily at ~.05% for ten days. Ignore the skin flakes, I'm peeling from my last needling session.

When you say a month off the treatment, is this orals inclusive? Also, I will be implementing PG protocol and ordering the compounds soon. I am on the edge about PGF2a, from the idealforehead post back in the day the studies mention that the fat/muscle atrophy could be irreversible and cause permanent saggy skin and dark circles. What is your take on that? At the amount of dino we would be using is it possible to get those kind of sides? PGE2 benefit > PGF2a benefit.

 

[pegasus2]

When you say a month off the treatment, is this orals inclusive? Also, I will be implementing PG protocol and ordering the compounds soon. I am on the edge about PGF2a, from the idealforehead post back in the day the studies mention that the fat/muscle atrophy could be irreversible and cause permanent saggy skin and dark circles. What is your take on that? At the amount of dino we would be using is it possible to get those kind of sides? PGE2 benefit > PGF2a benefit.

Yes, orals too. I actually quit oral dutasteride for the time being. I think I can get by with just topical. The only oral meds I'm on now are eplerenone and minoxidil.

The PG sides are real and horrible, but I don't think they are permanent for anyone at the ages likely to be treating hair loss. Minoxidil upregulates PGE2 and PGF2a. I think the main culprit for the minoxidil skin sides is PGF2a, but PGE2 plays a role in that as well. I think PGE2 is probably more useful for promoting WIHN than PGF2a, but that's just a guess. There are no studies on this. PGF2a is almost certainly more potent a hair growth promoter than PGE2 as a monotherapy.

 

[BigBadBaldie]

Yes, orals too. I actually quit oral dutasteride for the time being. I think I can get by with just topical. The only oral meds I'm on now are eplerenone and minoxidil.

The PG sides are real and horrible, but I don't think they are permanent for anyone at the ages likely to be treating hair loss. Minoxidil upregulates PGE2 and PGF2a. I think the main culprit for the minoxidil skin sides is PGF2a, but PGE2 plays a role in that as well. I think PGE2 is probably more useful for promoting WIHN than PGF2a, but that's just a guess. There are no studies on this. PGF2a is almost certainly more potent a hair growth promoter than PGE2 as a monotherapy.

What do you think about the speculation that WAY causes cancer? Are you not worried about using any of this stuff?

 

[Obsessive]

When you say a month off the treatment, is this orals inclusive? Also, I will be implementing PG protocol and ordering the compounds soon. I am on the edge about PGF2a, from the idealforehead post back in the day the studies mention that the fat/muscle atrophy could be irreversible and cause permanent saggy skin and dark circles. What is your take on that? At the amount of dino we would be using is it possible to get those kind of sides? PGE2 benefit > PGF2a benefit.

This is the first i've heard about the PG side effect of muscle and skin atrophy. I have bought PGE2 to add to my topical but this possible side effect is unacceptable. Can we discuss in more detail what side effects guys have had and might expect from topical PGE2 @pegasus2

 

[Equal Rights]

This is the first i've heard about the PG side effect of muscle and skin atrophy. I have bought PGE2 to add to my topical but this possible side effect is unacceptable. Can we discuss in more detail what side effects guys have had and might expect from topical PGE2 @pegasus2

PGE does not cause that directly, the main side of it is reduced collagen production. PGF2a is the one that has the atrophying effect. How reversible it is I don't know. But as pegasuses said the sides are clearly there.
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ol-will-make-your-face-look-like-sh-t.109593/
The issue is PGE2 and PGF2a can be interconverted via the activity of AKR1C1 and AKR1C2. So when you are applying pure PGE2, presumably it will get converted to PGF2a to some extent. How much the conversion is and how to regulate it I unfortunately also don't know.

 

[pegasus2]

This is the first i've heard about the PG side effect of muscle and skin atrophy. I have bought PGE2 to add to my topical but this possible side effect is unacceptable. Can we discuss in more detail what side effects guys have had and might expect from topical PGE2 @pegasus2

Same sides as minoxidil. It's been discussed to death on this forum and elsewhere.

What do you think about the speculation that WAY causes cancer? Are you not worried about using any of this stuff?

Baseless. I'm a lot more worried about cancer from upregulating shh and PGE2 than from WAY. I don't see WAY carrying any risk of cancer by itself.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

No. I did mix SAG in my second solution in a row today, so I'll be taking it daily for 2-3 weeks.

Edit: Maybe norepinephrine could be a cheap and safer alternative to SAG.

Or these glucocorticoids combined with an MR antagonist to combat their negative hair growth effects.

Fluticasone looks like one of the better shh agonists from that paper, you think if I spray this https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-fluticasone-nasal-spray-50mcg-120-sprays-prodid-1170174 on my head it'll work? You think the MR antagonist is necessary?

 

[pegasus2]

Fluticasone looks like one of the better shh agonists from that paper, you think if I spray this https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-fluticasone-nasal-spray-50mcg-120-sprays-prodid-1170174 on my head it'll work? You think the MR antagonist is necessary?

Sure, and maybe/maybe not. It can't hurt.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

Sure, and maybe/maybe not. It can't hurt.

This is about as simple as it gets so I'll spray it on my head once a week maybe after needling.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

thanks for your contribution man , i'm following your progress closely and trying to replicate your regimen to some extent before giving up on hair for good. when it comes to oral min my twin brother had an online consultation with dr david saceda ( one of the Doctor that conduct the oral min recent studies) 2 days ago and he extensively asked him about oral min and the collagen sides and he kept telling him that min had absolutely no sides such as accelerated aging or collagen destruction on his patient ( don't get me wrong minoxidil ruined my skin and it does the same for my twin).

since you seem extremelly knowledgable on that subject according to you what's the safest growth stimulant with the least amount of " skin aging" sides between minoxidil , straight pge2 powder and pgf2a? knowing pgf2a has other scary sides such as PAP

 

[pegasus2]

thanks for your contribution man , i'm following your progress closely and trying to replicate your regimen to some extent before giving up on hair for good. when it comes to oral min my twin brother had an online consultation with dr david saceda ( one of the Doctor that conduct the oral min recent studies) 2 days ago and he extensively asked him about oral min and the collagen sides and he kept telling him that min had absolutely no sides such as accelerated aging or collagen destruction on his patient ( don't get me wrong minoxidil ruined my skin and it does the same for my twin).

since you seem extremelly knowledgable on that subject according to you what's the safest growth stimulant with the least amount of " skin aging" sides between minoxidil , straight pge2 powder and pgf2a? knowing pgf2a has other scary sides such as PAP

There's too much anecdotal evidence combined with the scientific knowledge of the pathways involved to believe that minoxidil is harmless. They're all going to mess up your skin, but probably PGF2a more than minoxidil or PGE2. At least with topical use you can keep it to a minimum.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

yeah minoxidil litteraly wreck my skin .Sry to bother you but you're saying that pgf2a has more sides than min on collagen? that's disapointing has i have acces to latanoprost for free.

would straight pge2 be the safest of the 3 knowing it hasn't the vasodlatation sides of minoxidil and won't bloat our faces at least or am i totally wrong ?

btw he wanted to put my bro on 0.25 oral min

 

[pegasus2]

Most of the minoxidil sides are probably mediated by upregulation of PGF2a.

I had terrible facial bloating when I was using topical minoxidil 4 times a day. I didn't get it as badly from oral minoxidil, but I was using a diuretic along with it. PGE2 or minoxidil, pick your poison. I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to which one will be worse on your skin.

.25mg is nothing. I doubt that doctor is seeing better results with that than 5% topical except in topical non-responders.