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[Obsessive]

@John Difool @pegasus2
Since we know that spironolactone's efficacy has little to do with its anti-androgen effects (at modest doses),what are your thoughts about achieving efficacy with long term low dose (eq 50-100 mg)?

 

[pegasus2]

@John Difool @pegasus2
Since we know that spironolactone's efficacy has little to do with its anti-androgen effects (at modest doses),what are your thoughts about achieving efficacy with long term low dose (eq 50-100 mg)?

To know that we'd need to know exactly why spironolactone works so well. spironolactone requires twice the dose of eplerenone to achieve the same reduction in aldosterone, but not for binding to GCR or progesterone receptors.

Sci-Hub | A Comparison of the Aldosterone-blocking Agents Eplerenone and Spironolactone. Clinical Cardiology, 31(4), 153–158 | 10.1002/clc.20324

I think you need at least 100mg of spironolactone to have much effect on hair loss based on anecdotal evidence, and it results maximize around 150-200mg/day. Here's one case study where they steadily increased the dosage.

 

[LW94]

That’s a serious regimen, but sick results my man that’s one hell of a recovery

 

[John Difool]

@pegasus2 would you then recall Eplerenone has the same effect at half the dosage than spironolactone without AA. I believe you wrote one post where you recommended Eplerenone if taking Bica instead of spironolactone.

 

[pegasus2]

@pegasus2 would you then recall Eplerenone has the same effect at half the dosage than spironolactone without AA. I believe you wrote one post where you recommended Eplerenone if taking Bica instead of spironolactone.

Yes, I think 100mg/day of eplerenone is all you need. If you're on bica there's no point in using spironolactone for AA purposes, it's much weaker than bica. You should use eplerenone as an mr/aldosterone antagonist. It has a lower risk of hyperkalemia.

 

[Obsessive]

To know that we'd need to know exactly why spironolactone works so well. spironolactone requires twice the dose of eplerenone to achieve the same reduction in aldosterone, but not for binding to GCR or progesterone receptors.

Sci-Hub | A Comparison of the Aldosterone-blocking Agents Eplerenone and Spironolactone. Clinical Cardiology, 31(4), 153–158 | 10.1002/clc.20324

I think you need at least 100mg of spironolactone to have much effect on hair loss based on anecdotal evidence, and it results maximize around 150-200mg/day. Here's one case study where they steadily increased the dosage.

Thanks @pegasus2. I know little about epi and need to do research but believe that some of spironoloactone's good effects are related to TGFb / antifibrotic activity. Do you think we could get these effects from epi and thus not have to deal with the antiandrogen properties of spironolactone?

 

[John Difool]

Thanks @pegasus2 @Obsessive I second your question. Interested to elucidate the magical effects of spironolactone.

Don't forget AA on the scalp if you don't go hrt though.

 

[pegasus2]

Thanks @pegasus2. I know little about epi and need to do research but believe that some of spironoloactone's good effects are related to TGFb / antifibrotic activity. Do you think we could get these effects from epi and thus not have to deal with the antiandrogen properties of spironolactone?

Yes, it does. Probably mostly through MR antagonism.

 

[Andi0501]

What about gyno and other feminizing effects on spironolactone at 150 to 200mg per day?
Is the growth potential for the hairline better compared to estradiol 4mg per day?

 

[Obsessive]

Thanks @pegasus2 @Obsessive I second your question. Interested to elucidate the magical effects of spironolactone.

Don't forget AA on the scalp if you don't go hrt though.

Since you mentioned it @John Difool , I just completed a nightmarish 3 weeks with RU. I totally understand shedding and have experienced different degrees of it depending on treatment (oral min, etc). Using RU 100 mg 2X day progressively increased shed until i reached small clump of hair-in-showder levels, something I've never had before. Before I completely blame RU, I will have this stuff tested since others haven't had this issue with RU. At any rate, it's safe to say that all the gains I made from powering through months of oral min and estrogen are now gone.

 

[Obsessive]

What about gyno and other feminizing effects on spironolactone at 150 to 200mg per day?
Is the growth potential for the hairline better compared to estradiol 4mg per day?

I've never gone above 100mg spironolactone and probably didn't use it long enough to know for sure (4 months). I will say that I've been unimpressed with estradiol's effect on hair growth. Granted, I never pushed it beyond 1.5 mg so that could have been the problem.

 

[Selb]

I've never gone above 100mg spironolactone and probably didn't use it long enough to know for sure (4 months). I will say that I've been unimpressed with estradiol's effect on hair growth. Granted, I never pushed it beyond 1.5 mg so that could have been the problem.

Your regimen is actually what I’d consider the perfect one for someone trying to avoid femininization, but also having maximum hair growth. How’s your growth coming along and what Norwood are you?

 

[Obsessive]

It's changed a bit from what's in profile. I've tried too many regimens over the last three years. All of the successful ones included oral minoxidil, which I had to discontinue each time.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

Oral minoxidil is a beast, but the body hair and skin changes are terrible. My skin is starting to recover, but the hair on my arms and hands has not improved

Im facing some premature skin aging due to my overuse of alcohol based skincare products. Are you doing anything extra to improve your skin?

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Im facing some premature skin aging due to my overuse of alcohol based skincare products. Are you doing anything extra to improve your skin?

does alcoolic vehicle can really damage skin on their own?

 

[John Difool]

I use their product:

Optimal ratios of topical stratum corneum lipids improve barrier recovery in chronologically aged skin - PubMed

These findings show that barrier recovery is accelerated in chronologically aged murine epidermis with optimized ratios of physiologic lipids, provided that cholesterol is the dominant lipid and that the same mixture also accelerates barrier recovery in chronologically aged human skin.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

does alcoolic vehicle can really damage skin on their own?

Yes but it depends on how much you use it and your skin type.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

I use their product:

Optimal ratios of topical stratum corneum lipids improve barrier recovery in chronologically aged skin - PubMed

These findings show that barrier recovery is accelerated in chronologically aged murine epidermis with optimized ratios of physiologic lipids, provided that cholesterol is the dominant lipid and that the same mixture also accelerates barrier recovery in chronologically aged human skin.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is there a specific product you use with the 3:1:1:1 ratio or do you make your own?

 

[Obsessive]

Oral minoxidil is a beast, but the body hair and skin changes are terrible. My skin is starting to recover, but the hair on my arms and hands has not improved

A beast, or a b**ch lol. I got some PGE2 based on our convo about RA vs PGE2, but am still recovering from oral min. Are you still using topical PGE post oral min?

 

[Analogies]

Is anyone else getting results from using Pegasus regime? I’m only 20 days deep and nothing thus far (wasn’t expecting anything yet either).