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[pegasus2]

First of all, thanks for all you do. The updated OP is very clear, well organized, and the info is presented in a visually attractive way.

I'll probably have more questions when I get a chance to look through it some more, but I got a few questions for now:

It looks like RU58841 is the only anti-androgen you are currently using. I know that you said that you've used spironolactone before. Do you think RU is the best option or would another AA (either topically or possibly taken orally) have better effects? Also, your dose is higher than what I take. What do you think the ideal dose of RU is?

RU is the only AR blocker I'm on, but dutasteride also falls in the category of AAs. RU is good, but of course it's not as good as things like spironolactone or bicalutamide. Darolutamide is a good one to use topically, but I'm not so sure the expense can be justified. ASC-J9 (dimethylcurcumin) looks good on paper, but it's very messy.

You're using topical dutasteride. I've seen some controversy over whether topical dutasteride is effective since dutasteride is a rather large molecule and might not get absorbed properly. What is your stance on this?

You're using DMSO in your topical vehicle. How much of an effect do you think this has in increasing absorption and do you think this increased absorption runs the risk of systemic side effects?

Dutasteride is a fairly large molecule, and poorly water solubile. Absorption is not good. However, the combination of DMSO and oleic acid increases penetration substantially, which brings us to the next point. The dutasteride will go system as I said in the OP. I was actually using more and had to cut back because I started to feel the effects. I cut out spironolactone and went from 4mg/day of topical dutasteride down to 2mg/day. Nothing else has such a long half-life so the risk of systemic side effects is much less with everything else I use.

You're using oral rapamyacin. Any reason for using it orally and not topically? Rapamyacin interests me not just for its hair regrowth potential but also its senolytic effects, but if I recall there's potential for dangerous side effects. What do you make of this?

Rapamycin has tremendous health benefits, and I really don't see any reason not to use it orally at this dose. It's shown to be safe even in the elderly. More studies are needed, but every indication is that there's no downside to taking 1mg/day or 7mg weekly, and it's effective. We'll probably find out that you want to be on a higher dose than this when more research is done. I'll increase my dose at some point, but I'm not sure to what. Specifically for hair loss it's probably still better to use it systemically as metabolic syndrome is a systemic disease, and that's one of the leading predictors of hair loss. I think you'll get more benefits for your hair by taking it orally, and significant health benefits too. I don't see any harm in using a small amount topically too if you want. Here's some good reading on it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6814615/

You might have answered this already, but what's the Bisindolylmaleimide for?

Bisindolylmaleimide I is a PKC a/b inhibitor. It's for preventing epidermal differentiation after wounding.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2729337/
It was used in the following study with great effect:

The biggest difference we observed is that adult cells quickly differentiate in culture. Compared with the newborn culture, in which epidermal differentiation genes become enriched at later stages (D7), many EDC genes start to be enriched from 6 h or day 1 in adult cultures (Fig. 6B and SI Appendix, Fig. S8F), which could be one of the main reasons that cells lose their competence to regenerate hairs and terminally differentiate.

https://www.pnas.org/content/114/34/E7101

Oh also what's the benefit of dinoprost over latanoprost or bimatoprost?

There's no great benefit, you can use any PGF2a agonist that you like. I think I already compared them a couple pages back. Bimatoprost is kind of weak though requiring higher doses. I use dino because it comes in powder form, making it easier to work with.

 

[Equal Rights]

I updated the OP for everyone asking for more details.

I want to say thank you for giving us hope to fight against this sick thing. This may be too much to ask considering how much you have given us already, but would it be possible to add the order of additions we should make to the regimen? I am sure most of us wont hop on everything you are using for one reason or another, in my case I got ED from RU 5% :/. Earlier you mentioned that a lot of these have synergetic effects and upregulate each other, meaning its best to introduce multiple compounds together, would love to see the steps of introduction and record individual response before adding or substituting the compounds in the next step. Thank you once again!

 

[pegasus2]

I want to say thank you for giving us hope to fight against this sick thing. This may be too much to ask considering how much you have given us already, but would it be possible to add the order of additions we should make to the regimen? I am sure most of us wont hop on everything you are using for one reason or another, in my case I got ED from RU 5% :/. Earlier you mentioned that a lot of these have synergetic effects and upregulate each other, meaning its best to introduce multiple compounds together, would love to see the steps of introduction and record individual response before adding or substituting the compounds in the next step. Thank you once again!

Yes, that's a hard question to answer. The easiest and cheapest things you can add are obviously dutasteride and oral minoxidil with microneedling. Those three alone are quite effective. If dutasteride and RU give you sides try estriol next, it's an AA too. Then I'd add SAG and BIM-I, then SW plus either PGF2a or PGE2. Then I'd add eplerenone and rapamycin, then the other WNT agonists CHIR and WAY.

 

[ElToso]

@pegasus2 could it make sense to add duta to my homemade RU solution? I saw that kane sells the powder

 

[pegasus2]

@pegasus2 could it make sense to add duta to my homemade RU solution? I saw that kane sells the powder

Yes. Absorption will depend on the vehicle you use, but due to the long half-life it should build up in your scalp over time even with poor absorption.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

There are a lot of haters out there who think it's a waste of time trying to regrow hair. Just shave your head and be bald they say. Don't listen to them. It can be done no matter how long you've been bald. It just takes patience. I got on dutasteride around Thanksgiving. I only got really serious about my treatment in the last 3-4 months. Before you ask my regimen is in my profile.

How do you know what is doing what? My Goddess. I thought that i was the Queen of multiple treatments. Many of yours are experimental.


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9-12-2020

Here's a detailed breakdown of what I do for everyone asking about doses and scheduling. I make rotating batches of 40ml which lasts for 10 days. I apply 2ml morning and evening. Each batch consists of the following:

WAY-316606 280mg WAY is always added first and warmed to 50°C in order to fully dissolve
Dutasteride 20mg
RU58841 1000mg
Estriol 400mg
CHIR99021 40mg
Dinoprost 20mg
Bisindolylmaleimide I CAS 133052-90-1 40mg This is only used in the first batch when it is time to microneedle. I microneedle 24 hours after my first application of this batch.
SW033291 40mg
PGE2 40mg PGE2 is always added last to minimize degradation

It's very important to keep the solution in a tightly sealed container and protected from light. It's ok to store it at room temp. You can store it in the refrigerator too, but it may precipitate some. If it does you'll have to shake it until it dissolves.

The vehicle:

DMSO 8ml : 200 or 195 Ethanol 8ml : Benzyl Alcohol 2ml: PG 20ml : Oleic Acid 2ml : Tween80 just a few drops to a quarter ml.

I make one batch like this and microneedle 24 hours after I begin using this batch. IOW I microneedle immediately before or after applying my third batch with BIM I. Then I make one batch without BIM I before repeating. If I'm being lazy I'll put off microneedling for another ten days and make two batches without BIM I. Note: BIM I mildly stains the scalp.

Per the latest Cotsarelis patent I apply 2ml of SAG once a day on days 5-8 after wounding, using 1.5mg/ml. I've also tried adding SAG to my entire first batch. This seemed to work quite well, and it's easier to just add 30mg to the first batch rather than making a second solution for SAG. It's also easier on the scalp. The downside is this is riskier and obviously more costly.

To make 4 days worth of SAG I use:
195 ethanol 2ml : PG 5.5ml : Oleic Acid .5ml : SAG 12mg.

That's it for the topicals, now the oral part of the regimen.

Eplerenone 50mg twice a day. I might increase this to 100mg twice a day, but always start lower
Oral Minoxidil 5mg twice a day
Dutasteride .5mg once a day
Rapamycin 7mg once a week

This is a visual of everything I do except supplements and peptides.
View attachment 147009

Optimal microneedling time will vary depending on the device used. I use a Derminator2 with 12 needle cartridges on the fastest setting, which is 24hz. I never reuse cartridges.


Notes:
You could also add 120mg of ASC-J9 to each batch for a concentration of .3%. This will degrade the AR in your scalp. The problem with this is ASC is very messy. Also it downregulates NF-kB, so it's not the ideal SARD. A better option would be UT-155, but the price I was quoted would be around 20 grand for a month's supply. Maybe a big group buy could bring it down to a reasonable price.

At some point I will replace CHIR99021 with KY19382 at .05% concentration.

I'm probably going to add TM30089 at .1% because SW increases PGD2.

This is not a regimen for people who have cancer or other health problems like heart disease, liver or kidney problems, and it's not something to be on indefinitely. This is an aggressive way to get your hair back without feminization, and then maintain with dutasteride.

Some people may want to forego oral dutasteride and only use topical dutasteride, or vice versa. I can say that with this vehicle the absorption rate is high, and topical dutasteride having a long half-life will go systemic. Also, some people may get some sides with estriol at this dosage. In that case they can lower the dosage to 10mg/day where almost no one should get sides. If you're extra sensitive to AA therapy then you could eliminate dutasteride altogether and still likely get excellent results.

 

[pegasus2]

How do you know what is doing what? My Goddess. I thought that i was the Queen of multiple treatments. Many of yours are experimental.

haha, it's impossible to know exactly. I've added different things over time though, so there are things I know I've seen a boost after adding, but it would be really difficult to separate everything out. No single treatment is going to cut it by itself. Since everything is synergistic it would take a rather large trial to nail things down with all different combinations.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

w

haha, it's impossible to know exactly. I've added different things over time though, so there are things I know I've seen a boost after adding, but it would be really difficult to separate everything out. No single treatment is going to cut it by itself. Since everything is synergistic it would take a rather large trial to nail things down with all different combinations.

Then you are the main counterpoint I need because you are operating on the low end with one hand behind your back. We have to give some of these guys some hope.

 

[BigBadBaldie]

haha, it's impossible to know exactly. I've added different things over time though, so there are things I know I've seen a boost after adding, but it would be really difficult to separate everything out. No single treatment is going to cut it by itself. Since everything is synergistic it would take a rather large trial to nail things down with all different combinations.

Hey Pegasus
Thanks for the awesome post, your progress is very inspiring.
What would you do in my position. I’m 22 and have been on dutasteride for a year now and still continue to lose hair. I also use topical minoxidil and topical RU (premade solution). I still seem to lose huge amounts of hair daily. What would you recommend as a next step. Oral minoxidil? If that fails what should I try after that?
Thanks again

 

[pegasus2]

Hey Pegasus
Thanks for the awesome post, your progress is very inspiring.
What would you do in my position. I’m 22 and have been on dutasteride for a year now and still continue to lose hair. I also use topical minoxidil and topical RU (premade solution). I still seem to lose huge amounts of hair daily. What would you recommend as a next step. Oral minoxidil? If that fails what should I try after that?
Thanks again

Oral minoxidil. Are you sure you're losing ground though? Do pictures show that, because shedding can be deceiving. If you take oral minoxidil and you're still losing ground check out eplerenone, it covers pathways outside of DHT that could be causing you to continue losing hair while on dutasteride.

 

[Androgenic Alpaca]

@pegasus2 do you still source your compounds from Wuhan HHD on Alibaba? What's the procedure for buying on Alibaba, I've never used it before and it seems a bit complicated tbh

 

[Selb]

@pegasus2 as I understand it AAs can stop or slow hair loss but what is giving you regrowth?

 

[pegasus2]

@pegasus2 as I understand it AAs can stop or slow hair loss but what is giving you regrowth?

All the stuff besides AAs. They're all growth promoters.

 

[Selb]

All the stuff besides AAs. They're all growth promoters.

I see, what would you attribute to most of your growth? I know you said they’re synergistic but I’d probably guess the estrogen. I’ve heard at high doses it can cause massive regrowth. But thinking about it I wonder if you can apply a topical dht solution to your chest and genitals as a preventative measure to feminization

 

[Androgenic Alpaca]

Not always, but yes. You just have to talk to the supplier and negotiate a price.

Thanks. I guess my question was regarding the price negotiation. I don't know how much of a markup they list their products for, things like that. I guess I'll just have to figure it out

I used to work a job in sales and a lot of my customers were Chinese companies and communicating with them was... interesting

 

[pegasus2]

Thanks. I guess my question was regarding the price negotiation. I don't know how much of a markup they list their products for, things like that. I guess I'll just have to figure it out

I used to work a job in sales and a lot of my customers were Chinese companies and communicating with them was... interesting

The price is going to depend on how much you buy. If you only buy half a gram of one item they aren't going to be willing to work with you much.

 

[BigBadBaldie]

Oral minoxidil. Are you sure you're losing ground though? Do pictures show that, because shedding can be deceiving. If you take oral minoxidil and you're still losing ground check out eplerenone, it covers pathways outside of DHT that could be causing you to continue losing hair while on dutasteride.

Thanks for the reply. Yes sadly I’m 100% sure as I have photo comparisons and also the amount of hair fall I have is far from normal. Thanks for the advice and please keep posting, this is by far the most interesting thread on here right now.

 

[pegasus2]

This study shows that eplerenone is indeed a more potent hair growth promoter than spironolactone. However, the study was only done using female frontotemporal hairs. If anything the effect should be more pronounced in Androgenetic Alopecia since aldosterone had no effect on the female HF, but has been implicated in Androgenetic Alopecia pathology. I don't think eplerenone does much for Androgenetic Alopecia by itself, but it should significantly improve the results of AAs as an adjuvant therapy. There's no telling how much of a factor it's been in my regrowth. Theoretically, and now empirically, it's at least relevant.

the selective MR antagonist eplerenone promoted hair shaft elongation and hair matrix keratinocyte proliferation whilst delaying catagen (HF regression).

Eplerenone almost doubled the percentage of HFs in the anagen (growth phase) of the hair cycle, consistent with the effects seen on hair shaft elongation.

spironolactone effects on human hair growth are location dependent (i.e., stimulation of scalp hair growth in androgenetic alopecia vs. inhibition of hirsutism)...
Topically applied, intrafollicularly delivered spironolactone and eplerenone may offer clinically attractive alternatives.

 

[BigBadBaldie]

This study shows that eplerenone is indeed a more potent hair growth promoter than spironolactone. However, the study was only done using female frontotemporal hairs. If anything the effect should be more pronounced in Androgenetic Alopecia since aldosterone had no effect on the female HF, but has been implicated in Androgenetic Alopecia pathology. I don't think eplerenone does much for Androgenetic Alopecia by itself, but it should significantly improve the results of AAs as an adjuvant therapy. There's no telling how much of a factor it's been in my regrowth. Theoretically, and now empirically, it's at least relevant.



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Interesting stuff! Do you think it’s possible that dutasteride and finasteride for some people do not reduce DHT. There are reports on here of people having their DHT tested while on these drugs but still having normal or above normal DHT levels. Perhaps that’s why these drugs don’t work for everyone?

 

[pegasus2]

Interesting stuff! Do you think it’s possible that dutasteride and finasteride for some people do not reduce DHT. There are reports on here of people having their DHT tested while on these drugs but still having normal or above normal DHT levels. Perhaps that’s why these drugs don’t work for everyone?

I haven't seen anyone prove that. I don't think it's possible with real dutasteride/finasteride.