HairClone will be available in some UK Clinics in "early 2022" - Paul Kemp, HairClone CEO

Super Metroid

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Different markets, but I don't think Shiseido will move forward unless they believe they can virtually cure hair loss. It's too late at this point with all the other companies moving towards clinical trials.
There is a lot of encouraging news these days for sure, but no company has completely convinced me that they can provide sideless maintenance without side effects. I still believe that if somebody can legitimately offer that, they might find themselves a monopoly.

Eventually, hair loss will be cured. But so far, finasteride and mixonodil have not even been dethroned, despite numerous promising treatments coming along.
 

pegasus2

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There is a lot of encouraging news these days for sure, but no company has completely convinced me that they can provide sideless maintenance without side effects. I still believe that if somebody can legitimately offer that, they might find themselves a monopoly.

Eventually, hair loss will be cured. But so far, finasteride and mixonodil have not even been dethroned, despite numerous promising treatments coming along.
People who get side effects from finasteride think that everyone gets them, but most people don't. They suffer from confirmation bias. Naturally if you're surfing HairLossTalk.com or pfs forums you will get the impression that everyone suffers side effects. You don't hear from the millions of men who take finasteride and never have a problem. We've had sideless maintenance for 90% of men for decades. I don't get side effects from finasteride and I maintain when I'm on it. If I had started taking it sooner I wouldn't be here
 
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badnewsbearer

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People who get side effects from finasteride think that everyone gets them, but most people don't. They suffer from confirmation bias. Naturally if you're surfing HairLossTalk.com or pfs forums you will get the impression that everyone suffers side effects. You don't hear from the millions of men who take finasteride and never have a problem. We've had sideless maintenance for 90% of men for decades. I don't get side effects from finasteride and I maintain when I'm on it. If I had started taking it sooner I wouldn't be here
here I am with severe impotency at 0.25g/ml topical finasteride and estrogen levels of a trans woman. but I maintain, amazing. the great thing is, finasteride managed to elevate my estrogen without touching testosterone, it even lowered free T by a whopping 50% which is basically semi castration. however I won't say finasteride is a bad drug, some people genetics are just far too degenerate to even tolerate it a little bit
 

coolio

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People who get side effects from finasteride think that everyone gets them, but most people don't. They suffer from confirmation bias. Of course if you're surfing HairLossTalk.com or pfs forums then you will get the impression that everyone gets aide effects. You don't hear from the millions of men who take finasteride and never have a problem. We've had sideless maintenance for 90% of men for decades. I don't get side effects from finasteride and I maintain when I'm on it. If I had stayed taking it sooner I wouldn't be here

What study has measured the sexual/hormonal side effects of Finasteride accurately? What methodology do you trust for that?
 

Super Metroid

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What study has measured the sexual/hormonal side effects of Finasteride accurately? What methodology do you trust for that?

My impression is that they research sexual side effects as rather binary metrics. Did somebody get erectile disfunction yes or no?

If you would still be able to have intercourse, ejaculate etc. but lose 20% of libido. Would that be measured / registered in such a study?
 

coolio

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My impression is that they research sexual side effects as rather binary metrics. Did somebody get erectile disfunction yes or no?

If you would still be able to have intercourse, ejaculate etc. but lose 20% of libido. Would that be measured / registered in such a study?

That's my point. Drug research data on sexual sides mostly comes from self-reported stats. When it comes to identifying a sexual problem in middle-aged men, who are bothered by a cosmetic problem, and mostly in studies from decades ago . . . . that method is a joke. It's not a serious attempt to measure the problem.

The baldness community, in general, doesn't even bother to deal with the same question. They discuss it as "were your sides severe enough to make you quit the drug?" That is setting the bar much higher. (Hmm, seems kinda strange if the side effects are really so rare . . . ) And it's another worthless measurement, considering the men's strong incentive to stay on the drug.
 
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badnewsbearer

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My impression is that they research sexual side effects as rather binary metrics. Did somebody get erectile disfunction yes or no?

If you would still be able to have intercourse, ejaculate etc. but lose 20% of libido. Would that be measured / registered in such a study?
because you are both too lazy to read the studies and their design. and then you act as if its not rigorous enough. no study does the binary design. there is validated questionnaires to measure ED, those are used e.g to evaluate the efficacy of ED drugs, the effect of penile surgery or hormone replacement, the effect of prostate cancer surgery, neural disease on sexual function, the role of depression on sexual function, you must be totally uninformed if you think people have not thought of a better design than "do you have sexual dysfunction yes or no"? ever heard of "the International index of erectile function"? every major and serious finasteride study I have read has used this validated assessment that is used for all the other indications I listed above, most of them being serious medical conditions that require accuracy
 

coolio

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Maybe you've read different studies than I have. A bunch of years ago I read the Merck trials for Finasteride, to name one. They did a cursory generic side effects questionnaire. IIRC the number of trialists who dropped out for "undisclosed reasons" was on the high side. They didn't follow up on the trialists beyond two weeks after quitting the drug. Etc. From what I recall there was no serious attempt to find a side effect problem.


Finasteride has been around the baldness world as long as the internet. After 5-6 years most of the guys on these forums will have cycled over to a fresh batch. But for some reason the new ones always have exactly the same "confirmation bias" or "hypochondria" experience with Finasteride as the last ones. Somehow this mass delusion has been consistent for decades.

The drug reduces androgens & elevates estrogens. The widespread complaints match up with symptoms of reduced androgens & elevated estrogens. Why is it so hard to believe that these symptoms would be common? FFS, it should be hard to believe that they AREN'T common.

Finasteride is the best treatment we have. It also has drawbacks that some people handle better than others.
 
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badnewsbearer

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Maybe you've read different studies than I have. A bunch of years ago I read the Merck trials for Finasteride, to name one. They did a cursory generic side effects questionnaire. IIRC the number of trialists who dropped out for "undisclosed reasons" was on the high side. They didn't follow up on the trialists beyond two weeks after quitting the drug. Etc. From what I recall there was no serious attempt to find a side effect problem.


Finasteride has been around the baldness world as long as the internet. After 5-6 years most of the guys on these forums will have cycled over to a fresh batch. But for some reason the new ones always have exactly the same "confirmation bias" or "hypochondria" experience with Finasteride as the last ones. Somehow this mass delusion has been consistent for decades.

The drug reduces androgens & elevates estrogens. The widespread complaints match up with symptoms of reduced androgens & elevated estrogens. Why is it so hard to believe that these symptoms would be common? FFS, it should be hard to believe that they AREN'T common.

Finasteride is the best treatment we have. It also has drawbacks that some people handle better than others.
there is countless of studies that use the best assessments that exist. for example the prostate cancer trial, the largest trial to exist. also most newer trials use the international index for Ed to measure and estimate the extent of ED. the rest is statistic, if you have a large sample size, even just the binary do you have ED question already says a lot, thats just how it works
 

jamesbooker1975

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We will finally be able to get Aderans only about 8 years after we were supposed to. This is better than PRP, it actually works and should be priced similarly or lower.

View attachment 171367

I don't know if they did injections on the front, they're was no evident improvement there. The crown improved substantially
You can get better results with just minoxidil .
 

pegasus2

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You can get better results with just minoxidil .

Who got better results with just minoxidil? Regardless, the point is this doesn't have side effects. Minoxidil makes my eyes hollow
 

coolio

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there is countless of studies that use the best assessments that exist. for example the prostate cancer trial, the largest trial to exist. also most newer trials use the international index for Ed to measure and estimate the extent of ED. the rest is statistic, if you have a large sample size, even just the binary do you have ED question already says a lot, thats just how it works

"The best assessments that exist" still aren't worth half a turd unless they are producing accurate info.

Finasteride has been on the market for 30 years. The situation is clear enough to anyone willing to see it. More research won't change it because research doesn't dictate reality.

The present & future of this drug will continue looking like the past. Users will continue reporting problems. They will continue to be told that it's a very rare thing, and they will continue to say "then I guess I'm one of the rare ones" and quit taking the drug. The drug's sales will continue to be hampered by these 'imaginary' side effects. Thousands of men will continue losing hair over it. Denying this problem has not made it go away in the past and it won't do it in the future.

I don't hate the drug, I just hate the way this misconception has worked against us. If investors had not spent the last 30 years hearing that "there is already a good prevention drug on the market" then they might have spent more money funding other treatment research.
 

jamesbooker1975

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Who got better results with just minoxidil? Regardless, the point is this doesn't have side effects. Minoxidil makes my eyes hollow
Lol. Cammon, for most people minoxidil don't give side effects . And how do you know that this crap will not give you side effects ? Plus, it is not hair cloning, it is a none sense call it that way.
 

pegasus2

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Lol. Cammon, for most people minoxidil don't give side effects . And how do you know that this crap will not give you side effects ? Plus, it is not hair cloning, it is a none sense call it that way.
No one called it hair cloning. They are working on hair cloning too, but that's a different treatment. Have you even read the thread? Side effects have been discussed, I'm not answering the same question twice. Funny you say most people don't get side effects from minoxidil, because most people don't bet results either. Those who get results probably all get side effects to some degree, it's established that minoxidil upregulates pgf2a which is bad for your skin
 

coolio

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People who get side effects from finasteride think that everyone gets them, but most people don't. They suffer from confirmation bias. Naturally if you're surfing HairLossTalk.com or pfs forums you will get the impression that everyone suffers side effects. You don't hear from the millions of men who take finasteride and never have a problem. We've had sideless maintenance for 90% of men for decades. I don't get side effects from finasteride and I maintain when I'm on it. If I had started taking it sooner I wouldn't be here

Those who get results probably all get side effects to some degree, it's established that minoxidil upregulates pgf2a which is bad for your skin.


1644118671198.jpeg
 

pegasus2

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Strong argument bro. Two different drugs, and while there is a threshold for hpa feedback there is no threshold for collagen production. Maybe you think the side effect rate for every drug is the same :rolleyes:. Even for the same drug one side effect can be 90% while another side effect is only 1%,the mechanism matters. Finasteride and minoxidil aren't the same, don't be stupid
 
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LouisSarkozy

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Strong argument bro. Two different drugs, and while there is a threshold for hpa feedback there is no threshold for collagen production. Maybe you think the side effect rate for every drug is the same :rolleyes:. Even for the same drug one side effect can be 90% while another side effect is only 1%,the mechanism matters. Finasteride and minoxidil aren't the same, don't be stupid
man i'm sorry to annoy you but concerning the pc i sent you in pm o you think there is a good percentage of chance that hmi would allow me to get those hairs into terminal i need some hope? i'm desperate af lately. and you're 100000% right it must be why most ppl eny the minoxidil and collagn degradation as they are probably not responding at all. i'm a turbo responder and it destroys my face i don't want to stay on it more than 1 year i'm so tired of this sh*t
 

pegasus2

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man i'm sorry to annoy you but concerning the pc i sent you in pm o you think there is a good percentage of chance that hmi would allow me to get those hairs into terminal i need some hope? i'm desperate af lately. and you're 100000% right it must be why most ppl eny the minoxidil and collagn degradation as they are probably not responding at all. i'm a turbo responder and it destroys my face i don't want to stay on it more than 1 year i'm so tired of this sh*t
Sorry, I meant to pm you before, absolutely I think the chances are good for that. You're in France I presume, so maybe you can get into the trial in the likely event that they have a location in Germany.
 

LouisSarkozy

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Sorry, I meant to pm you before, absolutely I think the chances are good for that. You're in France I presume, so maybe you can get into the trial in the likely event that they have a location in Germany.
thanks man i needed some hope today if those vellus would turn terminal i would be back to Norwood 1 so i'm goin to stick with oral min a bit longer . i would love to try to get into that trial but i'm scared to even leave my home because of my ugliness so travelling to germany sounds like science fiction to me :/
 

jamesbooker1975

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Who got better results with just minoxidil? Regardless, the point is this doesn't have side effects. Minoxidil makes my eyes hollow

No one called it hair cloning. They are working on hair cloning too, but that's a different treatment. Have you even read the thread? Side effects have been discussed, I'm not answering the same question twice. Funny you say most people don't get side effects from minoxidil, because most people don't bet results either. Those who get results probably all get side effects to some degree, it's established that minoxidil upregulates pgf2a which is bad for your skinY
Yes, I did. that is not even better than PRP . And they are selling they crap " product " with the excuse that they are working on hair cloning.
 
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