Here's one for Nichiyoubi

[qball01]

David Draimen of the band Disturbed....can't find a picture of him with hair

Chris Daughtry...been bald since he entered American Idol

on a large scale though...especially in the movie industry...yeah being bald will make it much much much more difficult to become famous but who the f*** cares?...its the most vain, vapid industry on the planet...being anything less than extremely handsome or beautiful (hair or not) will make it hard to succeed in that industry....so now that I know I will struggle to become a famous movie star, now what? I guess my life is done?

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Although hair loss has such an impact in showbiz that does not mean the average bald guy on the street should be worried. You can still be attractive without model good looks. Baldness does not automatically mean you are not good looking.

So true, I think most of us have been with women we thought were beautiful but if we're being honest they probably wont get near a catwalk or a film set any time soon. Doesn't make them not beautiful though.

As ever with this part of the forum the truth is somewhere in between - the bald man may find it difficult to be respected or thought of as attractive by a section of society but its also horseshit to suggest he'll never be successful or considered attractive.

 

[qball01]

I think the bald = minority comparison is in some ways accurate. Think of it in terms of being a black man in western society. They are able to live in society, make friends, neighbours, have relationships (even bi-racial relationships).

However, there are still people who are racist towards them and judge them based on stupid stereotypes. In fact, there are still groups out there devoted solely to hating and hurting black people just because of the colour of their skin. Now...does it make sense for the hypothetical black man in question to pout and wish he could be accepted by the KKK and these other neo-facist organizations? Does he move to where these people are located and attempt to reconcile his differences with them and prove that he is worthy of THEIR acceptance? No...obviously not...all he can do is live his life, do his best to be an upstanding citizen, form relationships with people who are close to him and care about him and do his best to tune out all the people who ARE ignorant towards him due to a genetic trait he was born with over which he has ZERO control.

 

[uncomfortable man]

I think the bald = minority comparison is in some ways accurate.

Me too.

They are able to live in society, make friends, neighbours, have relationships (even bi-racial relationships).

True.

However, there are still people who are racist towards them and judge them based on stupid stereotypes.

Exactly.

Does he attempt to reconcile his differences with them and prove that he is worthy of THEIR acceptance? No...obviously not...all he can do is live his life, do his best to be an upstanding citizen, form relationships with people who are close to him and care about him and do his best to tune out all the people who ARE ignorant towards him due to a genetic trait he was born with over which he has ZERO control.

Amen. Every time someone laughs or points at me I just have to tell myself that those people are ignorant, judgmental idiots. It's just unfortunate that there happens to be so many of them. It's true that alot can be told of someone by how they react to the average bald guy who can easily discern the pricks from the genuine people. It is just a reality that we have to live with. Yeah, it can be disturbing to be on that end of the stick but I think you are right about having to get on with your life and push on regardless.

 

[qball01]

see? If you can get the rationality of what I'm saying then clearly you're making progress....

I still do have to contend that I really think you're wrong in thinking that you are being constantly laughed at and taunted....the reason I can logically state this because its pretty clear (by your own admission too) that you have BDD and have experienced the feeling that everybody is staring at you even before you were bald...

having said that...one of the main symptoms of BDD (aside from hating the way you look in the mirror) is thinking that OTHER people are always staring and taunting you....seriously, I've read of numerous cases of BDD where otherwise normal, attractive people have thought that they were getting stared at in public due to their perceived defect....even for something as minor as a very little scar on their neck...even when other people were at a distance that was far away enough so that it wasn't even visible at all)...so its clear that these people DO imagine a lot of what they perceive to be the reality of people staring at them for a specific, physical reason

Now I'm not saying you don't get some occasional comments or whatnot...of course you do, that goes back to the ignorance of many people. But I do think its unrealistic to think you get taunted every time you go out exposing your baldness. Its very easy to imagine these things and take somebody innocently glancing at you as them staring and hating you because you're bald. But people are just far too busy and focused on these things to give you this much negative attention. I firlmy believed that if you ARE stared at by somebody its more likely because they think you're Kelly Slater or someone than because you're bald...but unless you can shed your negative SELF perception you're likely not going to be able to shed the perception that others think negatively of you too...that is why I would focus my attention and finances on mental restoration first...not hair restoration

 

[superfrankie]

I don't know why we keep dragging celebrities into this discussion. The real issue is what balding does to the average man's looks and how that effects their lives. Everyday lives, f*ck Hollywood.

Beckham would be nothing without his hair, at least thats what the companies paying his wages would say. His image is based on his looks (where the hair plays an important roll), not his soccer skills. Thats why I hate him so much. Or maybe I should hate society. Tom Cruise? I dont even have to comment. He would be an average guy living a normal life without his dark haired looks. Maybe if he was lucky he would clinch a contract whit a mediocre tv-channel or something.

but after saying that. f*** hollywood. Its not daily life. And its not happiness. Talk about living in a world where everything you are is based on your looks. Thats why we hear and see so many celebs feeling terrible with extreme dieting and other obsessions as a result. I dont think a bloke like Brad Pitt feel appreciation for his work, more for the fact that people like his looks. The same goes with Angelina, Megan Fox etc. And maybe thats why many of them seem so unhappy - cause they want to feel appreciated for more than their looks. Must be annoying after a while. Dont get me wrong: its great to get confirmation in the begnning but after a while you dont need that anymore. Thats the reason why I hate girls who cant get enough of this. I mean, how insecure do you have to be if you need constant confirmation? That gets me more turned off than anything else.

There was one guy who told me this a while ago: women have three fundamental needs in life - or else they die. Food, sleep and confirmation. Girls MUST HAVE confirmation from others (esp. the opposite sex or else they would bitching "why cant someone love me?" and bla bla bla" and cant live on) A guy except to take it and live on. And in many ways we manage to do that. I know I generalize a bit now but I think its true regardless

 

[superfrankie]

being anything less than extremely handsome or beautiful (hair or not) will make it hard to succeed in that industry....so now that I know I will struggle to become a famous movie star, now what? I guess my life is done?

yeah your life is over :jackit: OVER!!!

 

[s.a.f]

But now we seem to have gotten caught in the weeds. The focus has gone from perfect hair to perfect muscular body, natural tan and masculine features "most guys can only dream of." The goal posts keep getting moved!

How about we aim for some clarity here. What, s.a.f. or others who want to chime in, is your definition of a successful guy who experienced hair loss?.

For clarities sake I'm not talking about can a bald guy make it in hollywood what I'm saying is whilst you have been saying that hairloss makes not difference to anyone and it does'nt matter at all I am saying here there is just a tiny example of countless succesful people who could'nt possibly be what they are today if they had hairloss.
So in other words yes it does make a difference and obviously I have to use public figures to make my point as otherwise we would'nt all know who they are. But the fact is although we're not all trying to make it big in Hollywood hairloss will also have its effects on our ordinary lives, in how we feel anout ourselves and how people percieve and make judgements on us.
Is it fair?- NO
But it is fact!

 

[superfrankie]

But now we seem to have gotten caught in the weeds. The focus has gone from perfect hair to perfect muscular body, natural tan and masculine features "most guys can only dream of." The goal posts keep getting moved!

How about we aim for some clarity here. What, s.a.f. or others who want to chime in, is your definition of a successful guy who experienced hair loss?.

For clarities sake I'm not talking about can a bald guy make it in hollywood what I'm saying is whilst you have been saying that hairloss makes not difference to anyone and it does'nt matter at all I am saying here there is just a tiny example of countless succesful people who could'nt possibly be what they are today if they had hairloss.
So in other words yes it does make a difference and obviously I have to use public figures to make my point as otherwise we would'nt all know who they are. But the fact is although we're not all trying to make it big in Hollywood hairloss will also have its effects on our ordinary lives, in how we feel anout ourselves and how people percieve and make judgements on us.
Is it fair?- NO
But it is fact!

Hollywood permeates our ordinary lives aswell so I understand your viewpoint.

 

[Nichiyoubi]

But now we seem to have gotten caught in the weeds. The focus has gone from perfect hair to perfect muscular body, natural tan and masculine features "most guys can only dream of." The goal posts keep getting moved!

How about we aim for some clarity here. What, s.a.f. or others who want to chime in, is your definition of a successful guy who experienced hair loss?.

For clarities sake I'm not talking about can a bald guy make it in hollywood what I'm saying is whilst you have been saying that hairloss makes not difference to anyone and it does'nt matter at all I am saying here there is just a tiny example of countless succesful people who could'nt possibly be what they are today if they had hairloss.
So in other words yes it does make a difference and obviously I have to use public figures to make my point as otherwise we would'nt all know who they are. But the fact is although we're not all trying to make it big in Hollywood hairloss will also have its effects on our ordinary lives, in how we feel anout ourselves and how people percieve and make judgements on us.
Is it fair?- NO
But it is fact!

Thanks s.a.f. for clarifying. I think I understand the point you are trying to make.

But here is where I disagree. Your celebrity examples are an extremely narrow slice of society where looks probably count 100%. They don't hire Tom Cruise because he can design buildings, or Brad Pitt because he can analyze a company's balance sheet. Bet those guys would suck so bad it would be hilarious to watch.

Now let's step out of Hollywood and into the real world where you and I and everyone on this board live.

Do looks count for 100%? - NO

Does hair loss make a difference? - YES IT CAN, but only if you let it

How you feel about yourself is in YOUR HANDS, not others. And if someone judges you about your hair loss either confront them directly about it or ignore them. Again this is something that is in YOUR HANDS.

My hair is way beyond gone and I cannot remember anyone ever judging me negatively about it. If anyone ever did, it would be their problem not mine. If you don't like the way I look then there's the door. I'm not on this earth to please impertinent and judgmental ignoramuses and I'm not even going to try!

So you see, the difference between you and I comes down to attitude. Nothing more.

_________________
"Baldness is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter"

 

[s.a.f]

Thanks s.a.f. for clarifying. I think I understand the point you are trying to make.

But here is where I disagree. Your celebrity examples are an extremely narrow slice of society where looks probably count 100%. They don't hire Tom Cruise because he can design buildings, or Brad Pitt because he can analyze a company's balance sheet. Bet those guys would suck so bad it would be hilarious to watch.

Now let's step out of Hollywood and into the real world where you and I and everyone on this board live.

Do looks count for 100%? - NO

Does hair loss make a difference? - YES IT CAN, but only if you let it

How you feel about yourself is in YOUR HANDS, not others. And if someone judges you about your hair loss either confront them directly about it or ignore them. Again this is something that is in YOUR HANDS.

My hair is way beyond gone and I cannot remember anyone ever judging me negatively about it. If anyone ever did, it would be their problem not mine. If you don't like the way I look then there's the door. I'm not on this earth to please impertinent and judgmental ignoramuses and I'm not even going to try!

So you see, the difference between you and I comes down to attitude. Nothing more.

_________________
"Baldness is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter"

Do looks count 100%? - No, BUT they DO count for some % and more with some people than others. So you see there is some degree of prejudice that we will have to deal with. Even if is purely on a subconcious level.

Does it make a difference? - only if you let it. - No because its beyond your control to change how other people judge you. You can say I'll ignore them ect but the descisions of other people around you are still going to have an unfair impact on your life. Wether its not getting the girl you want or just people looking at you in a negative way - its unfair and life is unfair enough anyway without having to deal with added pressures. Sur there are plenty of much worse things to deal with but the point is claiming that hairloss is not a problem at all is simply false.

 

[superfrankie]

You can control other people`s judgement of you to some extent (i.e. being positive, have a great attitude etc) but you wont be able to do that with everybody. You are doomed not to be liked or considered attractive by some people regardless of what you do. Whether you have hair or not, that is a fact. It can happen in any case. Whether youre muscular, dark haired and "handsome" by the majority. Someone is eventually going to say "hey, youre not my type" and there is nothing you can do about it. If 5 people considered us as physically unattracive and 20 people considered us as the total oppposite we would still concentrate on the ones who didnt find us attractive. Especially if we suffer from hair loss. And everyone who does not find us attractive would we relate to our hair loss when it could have been something else. Big nose, indecent smile. Something that didnt made it "click".

 

[Nichiyoubi]

Very wise post Superfrankie. Nice work. You wrote "You can control other people`s judgement of you to some extent (i.e. being positive, have a great attitude etc) but you wont be able to do that with everybody." The aim is actually for us to control our response to others, not what others do.

s.a.f. wrote "You can say I'll ignore them etc but the descisions of other people around you are still going to have an unfair impact on your life."

If you ignore them, then how can the decisions of other people around you have an unfair impact on your life? That is the part I don't get s.a.f.

There are two authors that offer great wisdom in this area. One is Steven Covey. He wrote, "Between stimulus and response lies the power to choose - the power to choose one's response." He was heavily influenced by Viktor Frankl, a survivor of the Nazi death camps and inventor of a field of psychology called logotherapy.

Frankl wrote "If a prisoner felt that he could no longer endure the realities of camp life, he found a way out in his mental life – an invaluable opportunity to dwell in the spiritual domain, the one that the SS were unable to destroy. Spiritual life strengthened the prisoner, helped him adapt, and thereby improved his chances of survival."

It is true s.a.f. that you cannot control what other people will do or say to you. If you could do that you would be truly dangerous! ;-) But you CAN control your response to what others do or say. You CAN choose to let it bring you down, or to let it roll like water off a duck's back. You have the power to make that choice and you can.

Read Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning". It will only take you one weekend and will change your perspective forever.

http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-M...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262919258&sr=8-1

_________________
"Baldness is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter"

 

[s.a.f]

s.a.f. wrote "You can say I'll ignore them etc but the descisions of other people around you are still going to have an unfair impact on your life."

If you ignore them, then how can the decisions of other people around you have an unfair impact on your life? That is the part I don't get s.a.f.

So if people take the piss, or treat you differently because of the negative sterotypes of baldness. You have to spend your life ignoring a large % of the people around you and thats not supposed to have any effect on your day to day living?????

Why should we have to put up with that sh*t because of something that we did'nt choose?

 

[Nichiyoubi]

s.a.f. wrote "You can say I'll ignore them etc but the descisions of other people around you are still going to have an unfair impact on your life."

If you ignore them, then how can the decisions of other people around you have an unfair impact on your life? That is the part I don't get s.a.f.

So if people take the piss, or treat you differently because of the negative sterotypes of baldness. You have to spend your life ignoring a large % of the people around you and thats not supposed to have any effect on your day to day living?????

Why should we have to put up with that sh*t because of something that we did'nt choose?

s.a.f., you have to choose your response. Let's say someone really does give you sh*t because of your hair loss situation. What are the choices?

1. You could confront the person. Not saying start a fight, but walk over to them, slowly. Get up as close as you feel comfortable. Look them in the eyes and ask them "excuse me, what did you just say to me?" They will back down, and will not do it again. Try it! If they still say something about your hair, which I would say the odds are 1 out of 100, then tell them "If it bothers you, leave or look away." That will solve it in a heartbeat bro.

2. You could say to yourself "That guy is a real prick. He's got a problem, but it's not my problem. I would hate to be him, filled with all that negativity and aggression. What a sorry SOB!" Then avoid that person. If you cannot avoid them (say it's someone you work with) and this keeps on happening, see #1 above. No self respecting man puts up with constant bullying and neither should you.

3. You could spend your hours mulling over how bad you have it and how life is so unfair. You can blame everything bad that happens on your hair loss. You can then go to some Internet forums and complain about how bad balding guys have it. You could seek validation for your misery by reaching out to others who think the purpose of humanity is to make their life a living hell, and then commiserate with them every day.

These are the three choices. They are there for you to choose, but you have to understand the consequences. Going the route of #1 or #2 will eliminate your anxiety about hair loss and put you in control of your life forever. You will be cured. Going with #3 will only cause you to sink deeper and deeper into despair, and will bring a lot of other people down with you.

As I recommended previously, read Frankl's book. Ten bucks out of your pocket, one weekend to read it, and the rest of your life to enjoy who you really are.

_________________
"Baldness is a case of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter."

 

[BrightonBaldy]

Nich, the gist of your posts are correct, in reality we probably should be more accepting of hair loss and its consequences, but the reason you take so much flak on here is because you over exaggerate where you dont have to.

for example on your 3 points there

1. The point was to say stand up to bullies, youve given a scenario where somebody has to act like Rocky Balboa to protect themselves from hair loss jibes, ridiculous. Anybody who struts around in life feeling like they have to constantly prove themselves comes across as a total wanker (be it how hard they are, how rich they are, how much of an attitude they have etc)

2. If thats your route then it makes you sound incredibly bitter, 'that guy' might not be a prick, if you are going to be understanding of your hairloss then you should also appreciate that not everybody knows what it feels like. I've made loads of jokes about fat people before and find myself laughing about fat people on tv while sitting next to one, I'd hate to think they were sitting there stewing away about my jokes or laughs telling himself "I would hate to be him, filled with all that negativity and aggression".

3. "validation for your misery by reaching out to others who think the purpose of humanity is to make their life a living hell" did I say exaggerate? :woot:


If you stop preaching, over exaggerating, stop telling us that hair loss doesnt affect our lives in anyway whatsoever and generally stop being a prick to people having a hard time in life (be it because of hairloss or another mental disorder), then everybody would be warmer to your calls for acceptance.

 

[Nichiyoubi]

Nich, the gist of your posts are correct, in reality we probably should be more accepting of hair loss and its consequences, but the reason you take so much flak on here is because you over exaggerate where you dont have to.

for example on your 3 points there

1. The point was to say stand up to bullies, youve given a scenario where somebody has to act like Rocky Balboa to protect themselves from hair loss jibes, ridiculous. Anybody who struts around in life feeling like they have to constantly prove themselves comes across as a total wanker (be it how hard they are, how rich they are, how much of an attitude they have etc)

2. If thats your route then it makes you sound incredibly bitter, 'that guy' might not be a prick, if you are going to be understanding of your hairloss then you should also appreciate that not everybody knows what it feels like. I've made loads of jokes about fat people before and find myself laughing about fat people on tv while sitting next to one, I'd hate to think they were sitting there stewing away about my jokes or laughs telling himself "I would hate to be him, filled with all that negativity and aggression".

3. "validation for your misery by reaching out to others who think the purpose of humanity is to make their life a living hell" did I say exaggerate? :woot:


If you stop preaching, over exaggerating, stop telling us that hair loss doesnt affect our lives in anyway whatsoever and generally stop being a prick to people having a hard time in life (be it because of hairloss or another mental disorder), then everybody would be warmer to your calls for acceptance.

Brightonbaldy, sorry if you feel my approach is too aggressive. Maybe it is for you and others. But maybe for some it will help.

If you don't like my examples above, then let me try to simplify it. We have three choices:

1. Confront people who are rude and indiscriminate toward you because of hair loss
2. Avoid people who are rude and indiscriminate toward you because of hair loss
3. Internalize the rude comments of others and allow yourself to be a victim

Here we have to distinguish between a casual jibe by a buddy and comments from strangers who are putting you down. If your buddies are hurling insults, find better friends!

So which is the best way? I've simply argued that #1 or #2 put you in control of your life. And #3 takes control out of your hands and puts it in the hands of others.

One comment you made surprised me though. You wrote: " I've made loads of jokes about fat people before and find myself laughing about fat people on tv while sitting next to one." Do you honestly do that? Well I guess if you are dishing it out then you should be able to take it.

 

[BrightonBaldy]

I do it without thinking, I'm only conscious of it afterwards, I've seen a hell of alot of people do the same with me when describing somebody bald in work/on tv, there will be a laugh at that 'old baldy git' or similar, with a similar stutter or silence afterwards.

It sucks but it isnt the end of the world, the correct answer to the question which is the best way to deal with it is a combination of all 3.

You need to confront and stop some people, you need to avoid a few situations/conversations if not people and sometimes its better to shut your mouth, even if it makes you feel like a victim.

Most people on here will complain about the effect it has on their love lives, the answer sadly is that for lots of us baldness makes us uglier and less appealing, on that front we can only talk from our own perspectives and as such opinions shouldnt be slaughtered.

I dont like your attitude on here, nothing is as black and white as youre making out, if you are happy with how things are on your head and in your life then great, but dont presume to know about anybody elses experiences or problems, you DON'T know all the answers.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Ive edited this - I put a lot of negative, counter-productive stuff up.

It was helpful to get it of my chest, but it was so negative that it may have been bad to read.

Anyway, hope everyone is good.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Why do you hate ugly people?

We cant help the way we look! :dunno:

I was just making the point that I am no better or worse then the rest of our vain society.

I dont hate 'ugly' people - ie the face you were born with etc. But a lot of ugly come down to choice. Diet. Health. Exercise. To me ugly means living an ugly life.

Furthermore when you dislike something in someone else, its usually because its something that which you dislike about yourself. I hate ugly people, because it reminds me of how I feel ugly, of my hairloss.